Army Building Discussion: Anti-Air

[Jolemai]

In the current edition of the game, the ways of combating anti air are myriad and form a necessary consideration when constructing an army. However, there is no dedicated guide or review and towards that end, this discussion will focus on all the methods of anti air suitable for Faction: Blood Angels. The aim of this article is to 1) share and impart our collective knowledge to our fellow captains and 2) to get some discussion going on the lesser-known potential boons to our forces. I want this thread to remain in flux and will happily edit the first post as people reply with their own ideas so we can get the optimal use out of each unit.

Further discussion guides can be found from post #6 onwards on the BA resource thread.

Anti Air

Below is the list of Datasheets that have special rules regarding the combating of anti-air. Whilst there are some non-BA Battle Brother options available to us (Hunters, Stalkers, etc), this review will focus on those which can fit within our Detachment FoCs (i.e. those with Faction: BA and Fortifications). Where possible there will be new entries but when certain units have been discussed in previous guides, the focus will be on their anti-air capabilities and a link to a more over-arching review will be present.

To combat the air menace, a weapon needs either the Skyfire rule or the ability to choose to shoot its weapons as Skyfire for a turn (such as a Flyer). The rules for Skyfire can be found in the rulebook under Special Rules.

Deredeo-pattern Dreadnought

Availability

The experimental 40k rules are found a PDF here. The Deredeo’s body can be found here while its three weapon systems can be found here, here and here. Conversions are feasible from a regular Contemptor, a Quad Gun and a Whirlwind battery, but I’m yet to see an attempt.

Rules

• As a Furioso Dreadnought in our Codex with the following base stat changes: WS 4, BS 5, AV 13/12/11, ATK 1. HS choice.
• Helical targeting array (if the model doesn’t move or run, it gains Skyfire and Interceptor on its arm weapons and missiles that turn)
• One twin-linked Anvillus pattern autocannon battery (48”, STR8, AP4, Heavy 4, Sunder [re-roll failed armour penetration rolls] or one twin-linked hellfire plasma cannoade (Sustained fire [36", STR 7, AP 2, Heavy 4] or Maximal fire [36", STR 7, AP 2, Heavy 1, Gets Hot, 5" Blast]) – note that this counts as both arms for the purposes of shooting and weapon destroyed results
• Option to purchase an Aiolos missile launcher (60”, STR 6, AP 3, Heavy 3, Pinning, Independent Tracking [Can shoot at targets that are different from the other guns, ignoring obstacles to LoS in open terrain and if hitting a vehicle, it’s the side armour always])

Use

This is what a “Rifleman” wants to be when it grows up and in a foot list, is what directly competes with the “autolas” Predator. As a bonus, it also solves our need for anti-air. To further elaborate, an “autolas” pumps out two autocannon and two lascannon shots. The Deredeo has four autocannon shots that re-roll their armour penetration and then has a further three shots that not only hit the side armour of whatever it targets, but these can go after a separate target or one that it out of line of sight. So that’s a potentially wrecked vehicle and a pinned MEQ squad or another second potentially wrecked vehicle. Granted this is at the cost of maneuverability and a point increase but that’s the joy of list building. Not only that, but, its true strength is when it doesn’t move. By standing still, it gains Interceptor and Skyfire on its autocannons and missiles which can potentially result in two wrecked Flyers for that turn. Not too shabby at all. Whilst it could take the plasma arms for AP 2, AA hunting is arguably better left to the autocannon arms.

A more in depth and general review of the Deredeo can be foun dhere.

Fire Raptor Gunship

Availability

The rules are found on page 139 of Imperial Armour volume two Second Edition (IAv2SE).. Alternatively, a naughty copy can be Googled… Note that there is a FAQ for IAv2SE that allows the Fire Raptor to swap its heavy bolters for independent, turret-mounted twin-linked autocannons. The model can be found here. Conversions are possible from a Stormraven using a third party conversion kit…

Rules

• AV 12/12/12, HP 4, HS slot
• PotMS, Flyer, Independent Turret Fire (Don’t count towards maximum number of shots, may selected different targets)
• One hull-mounted twin-linked avenger bolt cannon (36”, STR 6, AP 3, Heavy 7), two turret-mounted twin-linked quad heavy bolters (36”, STR 5, AP 4, Heavy 6 twin-linked)/twin-linked autocannon, four wing-mounted stormstrike missiles (72”, STR 8, AP 2, Heavy 1, Concussive)

Use

This is the Space Marine’s out and out gunship and the best bit, with Independent Turret Fire and PotMS, you can engage up to four units a turn which is simply phenomenal. Of the two options, the quad heavy bolters (six twin linked shots!) are probably the best choice but, if you are going to face a Flyer heavy force then that is where the autocannon comes to the fore. Other than that, the avenger bolt cannon is an MEQ killer and the stormstrike missiles should be used in the same manner as our Stormravens. All of this combines to make a potentially excellent anti-air option, even though they are usually used to abuse ground-based targets.

Flakk Missiles

Availability

The rules can be found within Codex: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels..

Rules

• Optional upgrade for a missile launcher purchased from the Heavy Weapons list
• Weapon rules found in the BRB or in the summary at the back of our Codex

Use

Flakk missiles are an upgrade to any missile launcher purchased from the heavy weapons list in our Codex. If you give these to a Troop choice (Tactical or Scout) you're looking at 1 in 5 models gaining Skyfire and the rest wasting their shots (also with Scouts being BS 3 this is a very unpopular choice). If you give them to Sternguard (2 in 5) then not only are you wasting the ammunition from the other weapons, but with the base cost already being high this isn't particularly efficient. Placed on Devastators (4 in 5) can work but with the missiles only being STR 7 AP 4 Heavy 1, it's not exactly foolproof. This is also becoming rather expensive. Whilst they have the potential to be useful for certain builds, Devastators are arguably the better choice. I’d also augment this by having a Divination Librarian nearby.

Gun Emplacement (Icarus lascannon and quad gun)

Availability

The rules can be found within Stronghold Assault..For the quad gun, the model is part of the Aegis Defense line set, while the icarus lascannon can be found in the Imperial Bastion set or separately on the Bastion upgrade pack sprue.

Rules

• T 7, W 2, 3+, battlefield debris
• Battlement and Battlefield upgrade
• 4++ to the model behind it, one non-vehicle can fire it instead of its own weapon
• Quad gun (48”, STR 7 AP 4, Heavy 4,Skyfire, Interceptor, Twin-linked) or Icarus lascannon (92”, STR 9, AP 2, Heavy 1, Skyfire, Interceptor) options

Use

A Gun Emplacement is an upgrade for any of the following: Aegis Defence Line, Imperial Bastion, Wall of Martyrs: Imperial Bunker, or Wall of Martyrs: Firestorm Redoubt. However, regardless of the choice and the side which purchased it, a Gun Emplacement remains a piece of battlefield debris and thus, any army with a model within range can use it.

Which gun to choose is determined by two factors: 1) cost and 2) whether you prefer killing things with dakka or precision? Obviously the Icarus is potent and can explode a Flyer with ease, but you only have one shot. Meanwhile, the quad gun will not explode the target but there’s a huge chance you’ll glance it to death. Here, the choice is yours, but I’d recommend using the quad gun unless you have someone like an Assassin or Cypher to man the icarus and get those assured hits.

Land Raider Helios

Availability

The rules are found in IAv2SE on page 56. Regular model is available here. Conversion-wise, this could be easily done by adding a Whirlwind Missile Launcher to on part of the model and a sensor. There's certainly some suitably third party bits out there.

Rules

• As a Codex Land Raider Phobos minus the TLHB
• One Whirlwind missile launcher which is upgradable to a Hyperios air defense missile launcher (48”, STR 8, AP 3, Heavy 1, Skyfire, Interceptor, Heat Seeker [Re-roll failed to hit rolls against Flyers, Fast Skimmers or Super Heavy Flyers])

Use

Another good use for PotMS as it enables your Hyperios to fire elsewhere, leaving your lascannons (and multi-melta) to fire at an armoured target. I see this used in a similar fashion to our Phobos’ and as a replacement for a Whirlwind in a list not saturated with other Rhino chassis. Sadly, with the changes to the vehicle damage table and the combination of Skyfire and Interceptor, the Hyperios upgrade is situational at best and it not something to be counted upon for Flyer/Skimmer defense.

Note: One interesting titbit is that on the recently released Primus Redoubt experimental rules, the Hyperios is listed as being Heavy 2. Now whilst this could well be a typo, it could also be an indication of a much welcomed change that we'll see when the long-awaited FAQs go live.

Full review for the Land Raider Helios can be found here

Legacy of Glory - Battle of Sarosh

Availability

The rules are found in IAv2SE on page 244.

Rules

• One Vehicle or Super Heavy Vehicle per 1k point eligible, no duplication
• Once per game, declared before To Hit rolls are made, one of the vehicles weapons gains Skyfire, Interceptor, Night Vision and Tank Hunter

Use

Possibly the ultimate last minute anti-air defence weapon, you ideally want to put it on something with a high rate of fire. Weapons such as a Relic Sicaran’s accelerator autocannon, a BA Contemptor’s Kheres-pattern assault cannon or a laser destroyer Vindicator are all ideal targets, but even the humble Baal Predator can do a job on certain targets. Super-heavy-wise, there’s only really the Cerberus as everything else tends to come with a blast marker.

In short, whilst this can do a job in getting rid of a single high priority target, it should be taking in combination with something else to deal with spam.

Imperial Navy Marauder Destroyer

Availability

The rules are found on page 48 of Imperial Armour Apocalypse. Whilst they can also be found on page 18 of Imperial Armour Aeronautica, there is a slight amendment to the rules for their bombs so it would be best to use the most recent publication. The model can be found here and I have yet to see a conversion of scratch build for them.

Rules

• Super-heavy Flyer, LoW slot
• BS 3, AV 11/11/10, HP 9
• Three twin-linked autocannons, one twin-linked heavy bolter, one twin-linked assault cannon and the option to purchase eight hellstrike missiles (72”, STR 8, AP 3, Ordnance 1)

Use

In total, this beast has fifteen weapons - all of which can be targeted at different targets and without penalty from firing the hellstrike missiles (as Super-heavies care not for Ordnance). Granted it has a worse BS that our current Flyer choices but this is offset by Strafing Run (alas for ground targets only) and it is still far, far more durable especially as it is a Super-heavy. Unlike most other Flyer choices the Marauder has rear-facing weapons to help in dogfights and with it being a LoW slot, it doesn’t take up the space of any other Flyers you might want to fit in.

Note that this can only be fielded in a CAD for us as despite it being a LoW choice, it has Faction: Astra Militarum. Further discussion for the Marauder can be found here.

Storm Eagle Assault Gunship

Availability

The rules are found on page 137 of IAv2SE or page 28 of IA:An. The model can be found here. Conversions are possible from a stock Stormraven Gunship by simply swapping the weapons, moving the/adding more wings and maybe by using Chaperhouse Studio’s extension kit.

Rules

• AV 12/12/12, HP 4, Heavy Support
• Flyer
• Power of the Machine Spirit, Deep Strike, Armoured Ceramite
• Twin-linked heavy bolter (exchangeable to a twin-linked multi melta or single typhoon missile launcher)
• Options to purchase four hellstrike missiles (72”, STR 8, AP 3, Ordnance 1) or two twin-linked lascannons, extra armour and a searchlight

Use

The Storm Eagle is primarily a transport first, gunship second (whereas a Stormraven is arguably the other way around and a Fireraptor is a pure gunship), and this is affirmed by the anti-personnel weaponry at its disposal. Of course, you can equip the Storm Eagle with anti-tank weaponry such as the twin-linked multi melta and two twin-linked lascanons, but there are better choices for this role. Unless necessary, best stick to something that can synergise with the vengeance launcher and/or have something that can target a separate unit successfully. Finally, with the current 7th edition ruleset, I would avoid taking the hellstrike missiles as firing one will cause the rest of your shooting to be snap shots only… In short, this can be used in addition to rather that as the sole anti-air option.

Further in depth discussion for the Storm Eagle can be found here.

Stormraven Gunship

Availability

The model for the Stormraven can be found here, but I’d recommend going through an independent retailer to get it cheaper... The rules can be found within Codex: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels.

Rules

• Stats as per C:BA, Flyer, Hover, Power of the Machine Spirit, four stormstrike missiles
• One weapon either a twin-linked multi-melta, typhoon missile launcher or twin-linked heavy bolter
• One weapon either a twin-linked assault cannon, or twin-linked lascannon

Use

The Stormraven is primarily a gunship first, transport second (whereas a Storm Eagle is arguably the other way around and a Fireraptor is a pure gunship), and this is affirmed by the anti-tank weaponry at its disposal. With this in mind there are two common builds: the pure gunship and the hybrid. It is certainly the best anti-air option in our Codex and amongst the best we have available.

Opting for the TLLC and the TML allows the Stormraven to perform as a gunship at maximum range with a low rate of fire. A lot of people prefer the 48” cushion provided and allows you to outrange most opposing Flyers. The alternative marries up well with the transport capacity and not only does the TLAC mathhammer to outperform the TTLC it synergises well with the TLMM. Of course, this brings you into counter range of many anti-air weapons so it all depends on the role you have in mind for your Flyer. Don’t forget to use PotMS for that extra missile shot!

Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery

Availability

The rules are found on page 201 of IAv2SE. The model can be found here with Hyperios Air Defense Missiles. Currently, the Air Defense Command Platform is unavailable. Conversions are easy by using a Whirlwind turret or a large satellite dish on a mount.

Rules

• Artillery (but unmanned, BS 3 and T6), HS slot, 1-3 per unit
• Extremely Bulky, Automated Artillery (aren’t destroyed if no crew, can’t move nor charge, if assaulted they are automatically hit but follow the normal roll To Wound rolls. No sweeping advances, pile ins or Consolidation moves)
• If its preferred target isn’t present, it will fire at the nearest enemy unit.
• The entire battery comes with Hyperios missile launchers (48”, STR 8, AP 3, Heavy 1, Skyfire, Interceptor, Heat Seeker [re-roll failed To Hit rolls against Fast Skimmers, Flyers and Super-heavy Flyers]), one of which may be further upgraded to a Hyperios Command Platform [which gives the unit the Split Fire rule that works automatically]).
• Options for Camo Netting (gains Stealth) or Deep Strike.

Use

One of the cheapest ways to get anti-air into our lists; a squad of Hyperios missile launchers weighs in at 75 points a go (85 with Camo Netting) and is a decent way to hold a backfield objective and harass Flyers. Granted the seventh edition rules has stopped krak missiles from knocking out vehicles as they once did but it is still decent against them (and against Necrons or Eldar). Sadly, this means that the Command Upgrade isn’t worth it and the model is best used as a way of making a Damocles Command Tank… It also means that this should be taken in addition to rather than as the main anti-air option in our lists.

Note: One interesting tidbit is that on the recently released Primus Redoubt experimental rules, the Hyperios is listed as being Heavy 2. Now whilst this could well be a typo, it could also be an indication of a much welcomed change that we'll see when the long-awaited FAQs go live.

Further in depth discussion can be found here.

Thunderhawk Gunship

Availability

The rules are found on page 123 of IAv2SE . It can also be found in regular 40k Apocalypse book. The model can be found here. There is a guide for converting one of these from two Stormravens and Vindicator somewhere on the internet...

Rules

• AV 12/12/10 HP 9
• Assault Vehicle, Power of the Machine Spirit, Hover,
• Four sponson-mounted twin-linked Heavy Bolters, Two hull-mounted Lascanon, Armoured Ceramite
• Six Hellstrike Missiles (70”, STR 8, AP 3, Ordnance 1)
• Options to take a Flare/Chaff Launcher (4++ against Missile damage) – however these are only available through IAv2SE.

Use

Don’t worry, I haven’t gone mad; this is just here for completion’s sake. Super-heavy Flyers aren’t permitted Jink saves and with the Thunderhawk’s primary weapons being blasts, we shouldn’t be using this for anti-air. However, with an array of heavy bolters, lascannons and missiles (with no penalty for being Ordnance), this is a good backup and worth remembering when this beast comes out to play.

Further in depth discussion can be found here.

Whirlwind Hyperios

Availability

The rules are found on page 89 of IAv2SE. The model can be found here. Conversion-wise, I see no reason why you can’t use a regular Whirlwind but there are third party choices available.

Rules

• As a Codex Whirlwind but without the option for Overcharged Engines
• Hyperios Missile Launcher (48”, STR 8, AP 3, Heavy 1, Skyfire, Interceptor, Heat Seeker [ re-roll To Hit rolls against Flyers, Fast Skimmers and Super Heavy Flyers])

Use

Sadly, the 7^th edition has not been very kind to this tank as it’s affected by the changes to having both Skyfire and Interceptor (will now always snap fire at ground targets), and the vehicle damage table (i.e Krak Missiles can no longer one shot things). Couple these to the usual Whirlwind drawbacks that many a player laments (i.e. one shot and one per slot) and this tank will often get overlooked. However, it does have a niche counter: Serpent Spam and Flying Circus. Skimmers are for all intents and purposes treated as Flyers for the purpose of Skyfire, so the tank will happily hit it and hit it well. Here, the legacy of Glory Schism of Mars *may* be worth it. As for Flying Monstrous Creatures, it’s a Krak Missile that can target them at BS so which is always going to hurt. However, there are probably better options out there for countering both of these.

Note: One interesting titbit is that on the recently released Primus Redoubt experimental rules, the Hyperios is listed as being Heavy 2. Now whilst this could well be a typo, it could also be an indication of a much welcomed change that we'll see when the long-awaited FAQs go live.

Full review for the Whirlwind Hyperios can be found here

Xiphon-pattern Interceptor

Availability

The rules for this are currently experimental and a PDF can be downloaded from the FW website. The model is available here. As far as conversions go, one could feasibly be achieved starting from a Ravenwing Nephillim.

Rules

• AV 11/11/11, HP 2, Fast Attack
• Flyer, Deep Strike (counts as moving 18", unable to Evade or go Flat Out that turn), Supersonic, Agile (+1 to Jink saves)
• Armoured Ceramite (Melta doesn't get +D6 to penetrate), two twin-linked lascannons, Xiphon rotary missile launcher (60", STR 8, AP 2, Heavy 2, Cluster Warhead [roll D3 times on the vehicle damage table, choosing the highest], Terminal Tracking [re-roll successful Jink and Cover saves])
• Options to purchase a Chaff Launcher (single use, 4++ against missile damage), Armoured Cockpit (ignore Crew Shaken/Stunned on a 4+)

Use

So, this is the closest we will get to using a Stormtalon Gunship outside of the Adeptus Astartes Stormwing dataslate or Allies. At almost twice the price as a Stormtalon, we get an out and out dogfighter that is primarily used for Flyer and Vehicle hunting. Given its choice of weapons, any Flyer should perish, as should the majority of transports/light vehicles. It is also a decent choice against Xenos vehicles as they rely on cover (via Jink) a little more than we do. As a FA choice it gives us another option towards Flyer spam and could potentially add a lot to a Flesh Tearers Strike Force Detachment. The "new" restrictions on Deep Strike are interesting (and will likely filter through to the other FW Flyers in due course), but other than the chance of a mishap, don't detract from the possibility of arriving somewhere unexpected for your opponent. Suitable Legacy of Glory upgrades include War of Murder (for Monster Hunter), Icon of Glory (+1 BS) or even Istvaan V Dropsite Massacre for Deep Strike trolling. Of the two upgrades, the Armoured Cockpit could be worth the expense but this Flyer isn't cheap to begin with... Finally, as the rules are experimental, all of this entry is subject to change!

Further in depth discussion on the Xiphon can be foundhere.

Summary

So there you have it: thirteen Faction-specific methods to get anti-air into your Blood Angels. Of course, you don’t have to cater for anti-air as you can always ignore them…

Please reply should you have anything to add, along with your own views and experiences so that we can help our fellow generals on to greatness (and wins). Or better yet, if there’s anything you feel I should add!

[Remtek]

Great overview! Like you said in the end, best to ignore them. The model has to be good vs non air list making the Fire Raptor an excellent choice. It's not really great at taking out AV12 flyers, but really the only air lists you can't ignore are FMC spam, which the Raptor excels at. 

 

I just finished building one last week, never again! That thing was a pain to build, so many warped and broken parts. 

 

 

PS.

Anything str7 plus with twin linked should be decent, like 4 lascannons devs with prescience will scare most flyers. 

[Xenith]

Yes, it might be worthwhile to expand upon "pseudo" AA, if you're killing time before the viva ;)

 

Baal Preds, Sicarans, TLAC Razorbacks etc all offer some AA output, while not being dedicated to the task. If you dont have dedicated AA, it might be advisable to throw in a few things that can help.

 

Thinking about it, how cool would Baal Preds getting the option for interceptor+skyfire be? Like the deredeo, if they didnt move

[Charlo]

Yes, it might be worthwhile to expand upon "pseudo" AA, if you're killing time before the viva

Baal Preds, Sicarans, TLAC Razorbacks etc all offer some AA output, while not being dedicated to the task. If you dont have dedicated AA, it might be advisable to throw in a few things that can help.

Thinking about it, how cool would Baal Preds getting the option for interceptor+skyfire be? Like the deredeo, if they didnt move

And Death Company Bolt Pistols.

....A lone death company once rolled 3 6's in a row to blow up a land speeder. I later gave him a second pistol to show his prowess.

Oh 3rd edition....

[Jolemai]

Yes, it might be worthwhile to expand upon "pseudo" AA, if you're killing time before the viva

[Grazcruzk]

Allll that FW stuff! How about the Command Tanks? The LR can give skyfire to a same faction unit within 12/18"

[Jolemai]

Should also point out that I'll be adding images to this too in due course.

Great overview! Like you said in the end, best to ignore them. The model has to be good vs non air list making the Fire Raptor an excellent choice. It's not really great at taking out AV12 flyers, but really the only air lists you can't ignore are FMC spam, which the Raptor excels at.

I just finished building one last week, never again! That thing was a pain to build, so many warped and broken parts.

Glad you liked it :) As for ignoring them, it really is a viable option when there is just one opposing Flyer. Trouble is, can we actually gamble on that happening?

PS.

Anything str7 plus with twin linked should be decent, like 4 lascannons devs with prescience will scare most flyers.

Yes, it might be worthwhile to expand upon "pseudo" AA, if you're killing time before the viva

Baal Preds, Sicarans, TLAC Razorbacks etc all offer some AA output, while not being dedicated to the task. If you dont have dedicated AA, it might be advisable to throw in a few things that can help.

Thinking about it, how cool would Baal Preds getting the option for interceptor+skyfire be? Like the deredeo, if they didnt move

I guess I *could* knock up a section on pseudo AA just for completion's sake - especially as the guide aims at covering all the bases - it's just that I don't see if as catering for anti-air in your list. More of a gamble really.

... and yes, my Stormraven has been knocked out of the sky by autocannon Havoks (they've not made it past T1 ever since) and Guided Wraithguard

Allll that FW stuff! How about the Command Tanks? The LR can give skyfire to a same faction unit within 12/18"

Good call on the Excelsior, especially as it's every turn! I'll add it in when I next get around to updating this.

[Tyriks]

What about Knights? Can't they take an Icarus gun as a hull mounted weapon?

[NTaW]

Great work so far. In regards to a pseudo section, back in 6th when Helturkeys ruled the skies I used to spam TLACs to deal with them 'cuz BA didn't have flakk and I only had one Stormraven. Not only did I never do one hull point of damage in dozens of games but I ended up 'wasting' a ton of shooting at those jerks in the sky that could have been more effectively used at ground targets.

 

In other words if it doesn't have skyfire (arguably, AP2 as well) it just isn't something worth counting on unless you achieve near perfect dice rolls.

[Jolemai]

What about Knights? Can't they take an Icarus gun as a hull mounted weapon?

Yes, they can take them as a carapace mount. Trouble is they aren't Faction:Blood Angels nor can they appear in a BA CAD (like the Marauder) and this is why I've left them out.

[Tyriks]

FW knights can be used in a CAD, though, can't they?

[Jolemai]

FW knights can be used in a CAD, though, can't they?

 

Indeed they can, but sadly they don't have access to carapace weapons like the Imperial Knights do :(

[Tyriks]

Ok, my mistake. Thanks for clarifying!

[Jolemai]

Ok, my mistake. Thanks for clarifying!

Don't worry about it :) I did ask for people to let me know if I had missed anything

[appiah4]

A minor suggestion, the Storm Raven loadout for the Pure Gunship is I feel misleading, the pure gunship loadout (AFAIC) is TLLC and Typhoon ML; this is what I use for 48" standoff anti-air configuration.  If you are trying the ranged air counter thing, the TL-MM rarely comes into play, I feel.  I add the HB Sponsons if I am also carrying a Troops unit within for late game objective grabs..  For your consideration.

[Charlo]

The MM seems to be the better option as flyers are one of the few vehicles that can suddenly bring that 12" Melta range to bear on cue, something that is super deadly against other flyers for sure. Being twin-linked it essentially guarantee's a pen that has a wonderful shot of blowing up enemy AV in 1.

 

Plus seeing as unless you are hovering you have to move, the "stand-off" nature of the typhoon seems like a strange comparison to me. Especially as the Raven is a premier assault transport for us too, so it will be going in close.

 

The TML also costs a fair chunk of points at 5 metla-bombs for what will only really amount to some glancing hits, whereas the MM is free.

[appiah4]

Actually you may be underestimating the use of 2 48" S8 AP3 shots a turn especially against AV12 fliers at BS4. The MM is great for using it against ground targets but TML can gib enemy fliers reliably too. With PotMS you can shoot one flier down with BS4 TL S9 AP2 and fire two S8 AP3 missiles at the other. From 48" away..

[Jolemai]

A minor suggestion, the Storm Raven loadout for the Pure Gunship is I feel misleading, the pure gunship loadout (AFAIC) is TLLC and Typhoon ML; this is what I use for 48" standoff anti-air configuration. If you are trying the ranged air counter thing, the TL-MM rarely comes into play, I feel. I add the HB Sponsons if I am also carrying a Troops unit within for late game objective grabs.. For your consideration.

This is what was written:

Use

The Stormraven is primarily a gunship first, transport second (whereas a Storm Eagle is arguably the other way around and a Fireraptor is a pure gunship), and this is affirmed by the anti-tank weaponry at its disposal. With this in mind there are two common builds: the pure gunship and the hybrid. It is certainly the best anti-air option in our Codex and amongst the best we have available.

Opting for the TLLC and the TML allows the Stormraven to perform as a gunship at maximum range with a low rate of fire. A lot of people prefer the 48” cushion provided and allows you to outrange most opposing Flyers. The alternative marries up well with the transport capacity and not only does the TLAC mathhammer to outperform the TTLC it synergises well with the TLMM. Of course, this brings you into counter range of many anti-air weapons so it all depends on the role you have in mind for your Flyer. Don’t forget to use PotMS for that extra missile shot!

Here I have suggested the use of the TLLC and TML for a gunship that operates at max range. For the hybrid type (i.e. the one that is transporting something), I've suggested changing the weapon configuration as you'll be in range to make use of the TLMM's Melta special rule, and quantified why switching to the TLAC is a decent idea. I guess on reflection it could be better worded and you're right about the hurricane bolters.

What's really interesting is that I'll have to rewrite this guide following the release of Death from the Skies and the TLPC might actually be worth taking now...

[appiah4]

Oh damn, this was all my bad all along, I misread the TML as TLMM (for whatever reason..) and thought you were suggesting the Multimelta for the Gunship role.. Many apologies..

[Jolemai]

Oh damn, this was all my bad all along, I misread the TML as TLMM (for whatever reason..) and thought you were suggesting the Multimelta for the Gunship role.. Many apologies..

 

At least I've not mentioned the twin-linked heavy bolters (TLHB) and twin-linked hurricane bolters (TLHB) yet...

 

Still, it's good to point out the lack of synergy between the TLMM and the TLLC, but then it does depend on the role you use your Stormraven for. Perhaps someone configures that way to stay at range at the start of the game and when the missiles run out, to move in close and pop armoured targets. In my opinion it's not efficient but people still believe in the HF and MM Land Speeder so what do I know? :)

[CaptainHelion]

I've got a TML and the TLPC on one of my Ravens. It excels at ground clearing currently. I'm excited to see what happens next, though!

[NTaW]

Judging from the images taken from the promo video GW posted, fielding two Stormravens will give them +1 BS against ground targets. Always helpful with shooting blast weapons even with twin linked.

 

When I use my Stormraven I play it with the TLLC/TLMM setup. Comes from facing two Helturkeys and a nigh unstoppable Flying Daemon Prince in 6th. Invariaby I came on between some of those forces, so slow moving on and shooting off missiles and the LC was crucial to getting a second shot run in close before being maimed by vector strikes from all angles. Generally only really what I do when outnumbered in the air, but I don't have results even close to statistics when shooting a TLAC at AV12 so the LC is still the easy choice even on a magnetized bird.

[Charlo]

What if I told you, the TLAC is statistically better than the TLLC against AV?

 

Or at least I hear - I can't find the math hammer right now. but the LC has it's place - I still find it ridiculous that a TLLC is one shot.

[NTaW]

I agree with the math, my dice have had none of it no matter how many TLACs I bring :/

 

The AP2 of the LC speaks up in my experience. Math has been great for me, but the dice are the gods I must pay tribute to.

[appiah4]

TLAC gives you better results against AV on average, but the problem is that its results have greater variance as you are reliant on fishing for Rending hits and those are not reliable with even 4 shots a turn.  However, the S9 and AP2 on the Lascannon pretty much guarantee a pen for each landing shot, and WS4 TL means you will likely land that shot at 48".  I mean, if you are playing a Gung-Ho list where everything just piles into the enemy and your Stormravens rain fire on them from mid range, that weapon is useful.. But considering it's our main anti air weapon in the codex and that it can do this job out of harm's way, I guess the question is why not?