Angels of Caliban (Spoilers)

[Augustus]

I am also disappointed that the watchers have been keeping the Lion appraised of the situation. The horror at finding one last betrayal was always a point of interest for me.

[lhavoc]

Again. They hadn't made it yet. Easy enough to delay the incoming forces and push thru to Terra or stage a break-out. Robert E Lee demonstrated that tactic against vastly superior Federal forces during the US Civil War.

[Marshal Rohr]

@Rohr: What older lore?

 

I thought Ferrus' death was established for a long time?

The BT IA had him kicking around after the heresy I think.

[Marshal Rohr]

Again. They hadn't made it yet. Easy enough to delay the incoming forces and push thru to Terra or stage a break-out. Robert E Lee demonstrated that tactic against vastly superior Federal forces during the US Civil War.

Sure, in the backwoods of the old dominion, but the legions were coming in from the edge of the solar system. There's no hiding in space. Come in from above the plane of the ecliptic, pass the asteroid belt and outer planets at enough distance to avoid ambush. Horus would've had to dedicate ships and legionaries to a delaying action that he was already using on the surface.

 

Horus, effectively, only has his own legion, the Iron Warriors (fully committed to the siege works), and whatever elements of the Word Bearers responding to his commands. The other legions are effectively independent fighting forces fighting their own war. That's why three legions operating together enveloping Horus would defeat him. The Traitors held a 3-1 legion advantage on the ground, but operationally he only had 2 and small parts of the others, not all nine working together.

 

Again showing why chaos is a :cuss antagonist. Too fractious to be a real military force. Even with fantastical force multipliers he has no true span of control over his allies.

[lhavoc]

The Loyalists were still extremely depleted because of Isstvan V and a covering force battle favors the Defender. But that is neither here nor there. The fact is everything was over with by the time the DA was in play.

[lhavoc]

And even without Horus the Traitor Legions were still able to stage a breakout and a scorched earth fighting retreat that only eventually the Loyalists were able to force them into the Eye of Terror. THEN The Lion went home. He never noticed that the new recruits stopped coming from Caliban.

[Marshal Rohr]

Doesn't be leave for Caliban at the end of this book.

[Fire Golem]

Doesn't be leave for Caliban at the end of this book.

 

He is about to, but changes his mind.

The Lion knows he will have to stay at macragge with his marines, whilst a way is found to breach the ruinstorm for all of them (presumably he still doesn't want to reveal the existence of Tuchulcha to the others). He cannot go to Caliban yet, despite the Watchers warning that something was happening there.

The lion kneels and asks Guilliman and sanguinius for forgiveness. He pledges that he will be Curzes keeper.

 

[DarKnight]

Just read the excerpt and oof, it does indeed seem like the portions on Caliban are going to drag. Is anyone else finding the Fallen storyline/Orboros thing unnecessarily complicated?

[Robbienw]

I thought it might drag at the start, but i was wrong.  It gets really good as it goes on, particularly when Belath & Co arrive.  Lots of juicy info on caliban and the order is imparted.

[Kelborn]

Here. Always thought that luther betrayed him out of jealousy.

Now it is betrayal within betrayal AND a daemon out of nowhere. Not sure how to feel about it. :/

[lhavoc]

Circles within Circles just like the unofficial "Wings" within the Legion organization. With thier own (different) leadership. Drawn from the ranks at need. (Like current DA Veteran Squads?).

[DarKnight]

Circles within Circles just like the unofficial "Wings" within the Legion organization. With thier own (different) leadership. Drawn from the ranks at need. (Like current DA Veteran Squads?).

I saw this theory posted in the DA organization thread and it makes sense to me.

[lhavoc]

Whatever the final revelation is, I hope it is more than "Boo! Hoo! Some of us turned Traitor". These are secrets that are so terrifying the've been kept and concealed for 10,000+ years.

[DarkChaplain]

Just read the excerpt and oof, it does indeed seem like the portions on Caliban are going to drag. Is anyone else finding the Fallen storyline/Orboros thing unnecessarily complicated?

 

 

I actually find them more interesting than the stuff off-Caliban. But then, I also loved Descent of Angels for its Caliban plot.

[lhavoc]

The argument could be made is from "Fallen Angels". The scene with Luther pouring over all those books with the runes of protection all over him. Maybe he was trying to stop the rise of Oroburos and becoming a Chaos Sorcerer was the only way he knew how...?

[DarKnight]

Here. Always thought that luther betrayed him out of jealousy.

Now it is betrayal within betrayal AND a daemon out of nowhere. Not sure how to feel about it. :/

TBH I hate the idea of Tuchulcha as well. I get that they were deadlocked in the Thramas Crusade, but it was uncreative IMO and lessens the strategic brilliance of the Lion.

[depthcharge12]

Tbh reading from what the OP has kindly given us, this is a pretty good book, and actually moves along the Dark Angels.

 

If Alan Bligh wrote a book on them would I prefer it? Of course, but he won't, or at least can't until our FW book comes out. It sounds like we got more background on the legion, and from what it sounds like, was a fairly good showing,

[Sulemain]

The Dark Angels Legion is for me far more interesting then the Dark Angels Chapter.

 

Their is a hint with them of the former technological prowess of the DAT. 

[HaSY]

At least, it is more than just some parts of your legion that rebelled and seceded. As the story turned out, there is now a good reason for First Legion to react to the point of prosecuting and interrogating Fallen till 40K.

Of course First Legion is way more interesting than its 40k chapter. Nevertheless, it is the tight-knit legion like organization of 40k Dark Angels and its successors that fascinate me to this day. Scheming knights with their own agendas and brand of justice?

[HeritorA]

Just read the excerpt and oof, it does indeed seem like the portions on Caliban are going to drag. Is anyone else finding the Fallen storyline/Orboros thing unnecessarily complicated?

 

Could someone explain it to me, cause I'm lost to find any logical resolution to Caliban DA fellas. 'Fallen storyline/Orboros thing unnecessarily complicated' - yes. IT IS. Ouroboros is a Chaos Great Daemon - right? In that case, even WATCHERS should know that there are a lot of weapons in the Universe (especially forged by the Empra and his previous lives) that could kill even a greater daemon utterly, once and for all.

No - they wait till it's imprisoned and totally grew up into the Caliban  so that his removal will lead to the planet destruction.

Question - then does Imperium or SMs blushed at world, planet, sector utter destruction???

 Zahariel logic is like 'golly gee' man?

 

Please please please - explain to me all that 'boring' Caliban stuff

[Augustus]

The Emperor came to Caliban. If anyone would know about the thingy it would be him.

 

I liked the old fluff:

 

The Lion sent back part of his Legion to protect Caliban(I liked both the official reasoning and the true reason behind it seen in Angels of Darkness). (Caliban does border the Eye of Terror after all.) But those left behind became bitter and jealous of the Laurels won by others. Especially Luther. Seeds of corruption planted. After desperately fighting his way towards Terra and arriving just late the Lion drives the the shattered forces of Horus into the Eye of Terra. Exhausted he arrives at Caliban only for his fleet to be fired upon. <- That would make a good fleshed out story. Instead we get all this zizagging around the Galaxy. We get the Oborororororos thingy and Tuchulcha. 

[DarkChaplain]

The Emperor's arrival on Caliban may have been the thing that actually kept it in check for that long. He might even have been the reason for Tuchulcha's existence.

Keep in mind that there were more than 60 years between then and the outbreak of the Heresy, possibly more. The Lion managed to exterminate the Great Beasts before then, but it does sound likely to me that they would have reappeared given time if the corrupting influence had remained as strong as it was. Looking at Fallen Angels, it seems like the Ouroborus gains power, and while it was held back then, it soon regained its strength - it doesn't look like simple rituals by Luther and Zahariel were enough to keep it down for long. The Emperor, though? He would've bought far more time.

And we all know that the Emperor didn't pick the happiest worlds for his sons. A lot of them are tainted in one way or another.

[Kelborn]

/Agreed

 

It would have been ok if a ambassador of Horus would have arrived on Caliban as the last step for Luthers betrayal.

 

Now I don't know anymore who is responsible for the fallens betrayal. Jealous Luthers? Obssessed Zahariel? Or power hungry Astelan? Though I do like it that they focused on Caliban and the Order, it became kind of mehr. :/

[lhavoc]

Zahariel, being a Librarian, is a lot more in tune with the sense of wrongness, but Luther seems to be the guy who knows a lot more about what's going on with Caliban. Also, at the end of "Fallen Angels" I get the feeling that Luther & Co have plans for Zahariel. (Sacrifice, anyone?)