GW FAQ - Dreadnoughts P11, BA P19

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I can't believe anyone would not let you use the "Roused to War" rule. I feel certain that Tournament TO's will adopt it, it's silly that a casual group would not. Keep fighting brothers!

My group already had something similar so they accepted this and a few other house rules.

For dreadnoughts we have a 5++ Invulnerable save, now also Roused to War (applied to Chaos Dreads too).

For Terminators we have: Models in Terminator Armor have a re-rollable Invulnerable save; the second roll can only ever be taken on the basic armor (5++) despite any pieces of wargear or powers that may otherwise provide an Invulnerable save.

**Initially we had +1 Armor (1 always fails) but we found it slightly too powerful.

Blood Angels Scouts have BS4 and WS4 (to match Codex: Space Marines).

We're all pretty reasonable adults here - anything simple that can help everyone enjoy themselves more is always welcomed - and lots and lots of beer helps too.

[Damon Nightman]

 

 

Librarian dreads don't get the extra attack for 2 weapons? Are the normal dread arms specislist weapons?

Powerfist = Specialist Weapons as are the Blood Talons. So, they do not gain the extra attack unfortunately.

Incredibly lame and silly, can't imagine that's intentional or if it is, they really thought we were gonna be op or something somehow...

[Xenith]

 

 

Librarian dreads don't get the extra attack for 2 weapons? Are the normal dread arms specislist weapons?

Powerfist = Specialist Weapons as are the Blood Talons. So, they do not gain the extra attack unfortunately.

Incredibly lame and silly, can't imagine that's intentional or if it is, they really thought we were gonna be op or something somehow...

 

 

Special rules for walkers override the normal rules (otherwise those unwieldy powerfists would strike last). Walkers have their own way for working out attacks, which is +1A for every melee weapon after the first.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

 

Librarian dreads don't get the extra attack for 2 weapons? Are the normal dread arms specislist weapons?

Powerfist = Specialist Weapons as are the Blood Talons. So, they do not gain the extra attack unfortunately.

Incredibly lame and silly, can't imagine that's intentional or if it is, they really thought we were gonna be op or something somehow...

 

If they would have given the Furioso Librarian a simple Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon then he would retain the +1 attack, however, since they gave him the Powerfist he does not. It is right daft if you ask me. But it is what it is.

 

You're absolutely right, they changed that. Sorry went back an edition, maybe 2...

[Charlo]

 

Frag Cannons for Dev Squads.

 

Enough said.

 

Flamer template havy weapons on infantry without Relentless would accomplish very little unfortunately..

 

Frag Cannon Centurions on the other hand..

 

 

Nope - we'd logically use the profile from Deathwatch Overkill that had two firing modes:

 

Frag - template S6 AP- Assault 2 Rending

Solid Shot -  24" S7 AP3 Assault 2

 

We also do not need Centurions. Keep them away from my BA :P

[Jolemai]

The Librarian Dreadnought conundrum can be found here so it doesn't need debating any further. As to regards to a FAQ on the subject, that will entirely depend on whether or not someone asked the question in the first place...

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Thanks Jolemai! 

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

 

 

 

Librarian dreads don't get the extra attack for 2 weapons? Are the normal dread arms specislist weapons?

Powerfist = Specialist Weapons as are the Blood Talons. So, they do not gain the extra attack unfortunately.

Incredibly lame and silly, can't imagine that's intentional or if it is, they really thought we were gonna be op or something somehow...

 

If they would have given the Furioso Librarian a simple Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon then he would retain the +1 attack, however, since they gave him the Powerfist he does not. It is right daft if you ask me. But it is what it is.

 

You're absolutely right, they changed that. Sorry went back an edition, maybe 2...

 

And don't forget, as long as the 2 CCW both have the "Specialist Weapon" rule you DO still get the extra attack anyway, and that goes for any model not just Dreads.

[Damon Nightman]

 

 

 

 

Librarian dreads don't get the extra attack for 2 weapons? Are the normal dread arms specislist weapons?

Powerfist = Specialist Weapons as are the Blood Talons. So, they do not gain the extra attack unfortunately.

Incredibly lame and silly, can't imagine that's intentional or if it is, they really thought we were gonna be op or something somehow...

If they would have given the Furioso Librarian a simple Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon then he would retain the +1 attack, however, since they gave him the Powerfist he does not. It is right daft if you ask me. But it is what it is.

 

You're absolutely right, they changed that. Sorry went back an edition, maybe 2...

So they do get the extra attack still! Awesome! I was thinking that was another thing we missed out on

[Quixus]

Sadly I think relics will be one per character now, which is fine. Chaplain with the Veritas, Priest with the Angel's Wings and Captain with Valours

That is at least two detachments though. Depending on points that might not be feasible.

I wonder if anyone asked if the Force Halberd on the Furioso Librarian, not having the "Specialist Weapon" rule was an oversight. Always seems lame having 2 CCWs but not being able to utilize +1 attack. I mean. He is a Dreadnought!

He does get the extra attack, but only if he uses the Force Halberd. The power fist does not get an extra attack, but there is not reason to use the PF ever. The halberd gets the extra attack because the dreadnought has two close combat weapons and you only ever use one weapon profile. The halberd's profile does not have the specialist weapon rule and so follows the normal rules for having more than one weapon (Halberd + Power Fist).

Librarian dreads don't get the extra attack for 2 weapons? Are the normal dread arms specislist weapons?

As of recently, no dreadnought gets a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon any more, they get one or more Power Fists instead.

Librarian dreads don't get the extra attack for 2 weapons? Are the normal dread arms specislist weapons?

Powerfist = Specialist Weapons as are the Blood Talons. So, they do not gain the extra attack unfortunately.

Incredibly lame and silly, can't imagine that's intentional or if it is, they really thought we were gonna be op or something somehow...

Special rules for walkers override the normal rules (otherwise those unwieldy powerfists would strike last). Walkers have their own way for working out attacks, which is +1A for every melee weapon after the first.

Nope. The Unwieldy rule explicitly states that walkers with such weapons strike at their normal initiative.

[Damon Nightman]

This is becoming so confusing to me after seeing all the explanations and reading through the thread jolemai linked lol.

 

So only gets an extra attack if using the halberd which you should always use anyway. That correct?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

This is becoming so confusing to me after seeing all the explanations and reading through the thread jolemai linked lol.

 

So only gets an extra attack if using the halberd which you should always use anyway. That correct?

 

LOL none of you have this right yet!! ...Dreadnought or standard Infantry it doesn't matter for the number of attacks.

 

1 CCW and 1 "specialist weapon" = NO extra attacks.  The Dread Force Halberd is NOT a 'specialist weapon' so no matter which weapon you choose to attack with you get NO extra attacks.

 

2 "specialist weapons" (of any type) = EXTRA attack. The Blood Talon, and Powerfist are 'specialist weapons' so you can mix and match or field a pair and you WILL get that extra attack.

 

Also, 2 CCW when NONE have "specialist weapon" rule = EXTRA attack. So if you could take 2 Dread Force Halberds for example.

 

The Librarian dread with 1 Halberd doesn't get an extra attack, sorry.

[Damon Nightman]

No need to apologize! Thank you for the info!

[Quixus]

1 CCW and 1 "specialist weapon" = NO extra attacks.  The Dread Force Halberd is NOT a 'specialist weapon' so no matter which weapon you choose to attack with you get NO extra attacks.

That is wrong:

If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows – he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it’s worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 attack in close combat.

Specialist Weapon is an ability of the Power Fist, you cannot mix and match it with the abilities of the Force Halberd (Melee, Force). If you use the Force Halberd, the Specialist Weapon ability is not applicable and the standard rule of getting +1 attack for having two melee weapons applies.

 

Also you cannot get a single Blood Talon anyways.

[Charlo]

Two detachments is so easy for us though. Especially with Flesh Tearers.

 

You just take a HQ, Cassor and a pod!

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

 

1 CCW and 1 "specialist weapon" = NO extra attacks.  The Dread Force Halberd is NOT a 'specialist weapon' so no matter which weapon you choose to attack with you get NO extra attacks.

That is wrong:

If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows – he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it’s worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 attack in close combat.

Specialist Weapon is an ability of the Power Fist, you cannot mix and match it with the abilities of the Force Halberd (Melee, Force). If you use the Force Halberd, the Specialist Weapon ability is not applicable and the standard rule of getting +1 attack for having two melee weapons applies.

 

Also you cannot get a single Blood Talon anyways.

Hmm... I understand what you're saying, the more than one melee weapon part is perfectly clear - it was the "Specialist Weapon" rule that I was thinking about, but even then, your interpretation could work because it says, "a model fighting with this weapon does not receive...".  Uh oh. :)

[Servant of Dante]

1 CCW and 1 "specialist weapon" = NO extra attacks. The Dread Force Halberd is NOT a 'specialist weapon' so no matter which weapon you choose to attack with you get NO extra attacks.

That is wrong:

If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows – he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it’s worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 attack in close combat.

Specialist Weapon is an ability of the Power Fist, you cannot mix and match it with the abilities of the Force Halberd (Melee, Force). If you use the Force Halberd, the Specialist Weapon ability is not applicable and the standard rule of getting +1 attack for having two melee weapons applies.

Also you cannot get a single Blood Talon anyways.

Hmm... I understand what you're saying, the more than one melee weapon part is perfectly clear - it was the "Specialist Weapon" rule that I was thinking about, but even then, your interpretation could work because it says, "a model fighting with this weapon does not receive...". Uh oh.

But, if you are using the halberd, you are not "fighting" with the power fist. It is granting +1 A based on its existence, but you are not "using" it.

Sorry Jolemai

The Librarian Dreadnought conundrum can be found here so it doesn't need debating any further. As to regards to a FAQ on the subject, that will entirely depend on whether or not someone asked the question in the first place...

[Damon Nightman]

Sorry I went to that thread and couldn't tell if there was ever an answer/agreement.

 

For the faq, I feel like that could easily be overlooked. I doubt it was brought up as much as our other issues... Were they only answering common questions that they got a lot or were they literally including every single question presented?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Ok, yeah I was agreeing - let's get this right then, so:

 

1 CCW and 1 "specialist weapon", using CCW = EXTRA attack. (example: Librarian Dread using Force Halberd)

 

1 CCW and 1 "specialist weapon", using "specialist weapon" = NO extra attack. (example: same Librarian Dread using his Powerfist arm)

 

2 "specialist weapons" (of any type) = EXTRA attack.

 

2 CCW when NONE have "specialist weapon" rule = EXTRA attack.

 

-- This is true for all models, not just Dreads.

[Servant of Dante]

Ok, yeah I was agreeing - let's get this right then, so:

 

1 CCW and 1 "specialist weapon", using CCW = EXTRA attack. (example: Librarian Dread using Force Halberd)

 

1 CCW and 1 "specialist weapon", using "specialist weapon" = NO extra attack. (example: same Librarian Dread using his Powerfist arm)

 

2 "specialist weapons" (of any type) = EXTRA attack.

 

2 CCW when NONE have "specialist weapon" rule = EXTRA attack.

 

-- This is true for all models, not just Dreads.

Indubitably!

 

Note: this post is definitely worth the space it takes up.

[Arkaniss]

In happier news my gaming group got together yesterday and everyone agreed to implement Roused to War :D Next game I field all my Dreadnoughts :P

[Brother apocalyptic]

so with the new FAQ, DC dreads holds 5(base)+2(rage)+1(dual weapons)+1(walker rule) = 9 attacks? Thats awesome... :D

[NTaW]

so with the new FAQ, DC dreads holds 5(base)+2(rage)+1(dual weapons)+1(walker rule) = 9 attacks? Thats awesome...

8, but it's still pretty awesome.

[Brother apocalyptic]

so with the new FAQ, DC dreads holds 5(base)+2(rage)+1(dual weapons)+1(walker rule) = 9 attacks? Thats awesome...

8, but it's still pretty awesome.

How come only 8?

[NTaW]

He needs three close combat weapons to get +2 attacks for the Walkers in Assault paragraph to apply. Recheck the wording there, I'm pretty sure there's even specific examples for how to count it out. So,

 

3 base

+2 RoW

+2 Rage

+1 2x ccw