GW FAQ - Dreadnoughts P11, BA P19

[Charlo]

Ignore me, In my head BSF and charging was different X.X

[Grazcruzk]

On the advantages of our dreads over sw/others I would put my two cents in for the talons and magna grapple. You probably will not be needing that reroll often but with that many attacks you're going to roll a one here and there. The magna grapple can make skies of blood deployment safer and possibly keep you within cover.

[Charlo]

Those are excellent points Gaz!

[Lucumon]

If you've ever rolled five 1's... that reroll is nice.

[Grazcruzk]

Now all we need is a librarian conclave consisting of five libby dreads.

[Closet Skeleton]

 

 

Played a game with all 6 of my BA dreads today.

 

Still got tabled except for a 6 tac marines. Only three of the dreads even got into combat, Librarian died bouncing harmlessly off a Wraith Knight, regular dread got killed by an Autarch haywire grenade before he could attack and a deathcompany dread managed to die taking down a wraithlord.

 

Most effective dread was the regular plasma cannon/heavy flamer one. He at least killed 6 dire avengers in one shot when every other unit in the army managed to kill under 2.

 

That's really unlucky, a Librarian dread with force should have murdered the wraithknight!

 

 

I'm just not good enough with the rules of how the psychic phase works now.

[Xenith]

All in the rulebook.

 

You know your librarian dread has a force weapon. Force costs 1 warp charge.

 

You get D6 + your mastery level of (i assume) 2.

 

Roll all those dice, for each that comes up a 4+ you harness a warp charge. You just need to get one of those and your librarian dread strikes before the wraithknight at I6 (in a baal strike force) with 6 S10 attacks on the charge. You hit on a 4, wound on a 2+ (S10 vs T8) with no armour save, if one wound goes through the wraithknight dies due to the force weapon.

[Closet Skeleton]

Didn't get a chance to charge, spent all my warp charges on shooting powers.

 

Librarian dread is only 5 attacks on the charge and initiative 5 unless it uses Quickening since Force Halberds aren't specialist weapons.

 

Force is not an instant kill against a gargantuan creature. Still a good chance of killing the wraithknight if things go your way but when it has a 24" threat range that's not so simple. There were things I could have done, I just had the wrong ruleset in my head. I forgot that the Force Weapon was even x2 strength.

[Brother apocalyptic]

You're counting Roused To War twice in your example. You've added the two extra attacks to the base of 3, and then somehow add another attack from 'RoW'. So NTaW is correct; it's 8 attacks on the charge.

RoW = rule of Walker, add 1 attack for each close combat weapon after the first...

[Brother apocalyptic]

All in the rulebook.

 

You know your librarian dread has a force weapon. Force costs 1 warp charge.

 

You get D6 + your mastery level of (i assume) 2.

 

Roll all those dice, for each that comes up a 4+ you harness a warp charge. You just need to get one of those and your librarian dread strikes before the wraithknight at I6 (in a baal strike force) with 6 S10 attacks on the charge. You hit on a 4, wound on a 2+ (S10 vs T8) with no armour save, if one wound goes through the wraithknight dies due to the force weapon.

Nope, he loses d3 wounds for each instant death. Its under "gargantuan creature" rules.

[NTaW]

 

 

You're counting Roused To War twice in your example. You've added the two extra attacks to the base of 3, and then somehow add another attack from 'RoW'. So NTaW is correct; it's 8 attacks on the charge.

RoW = rule of Walker, add 1 attack for each close combat weapon after the first...

...and it has two close combat weapons, ergo +1 attack. So here we are again, with:

 

3 attacks as per current profile

+2 for Roused To War

+2 for Rage

+1 for having 2x combat weapons

 

If the Walker has three ccw's it would get +2 attacks, if it has four ccw's it would get +3 attacks, etc.

 

However, you can always get more attacks via certain Formation rules or Psychic powers.

[Quixus]

You're counting Roused To War twice in your example. You've added the two extra attacks to the base of 3, and then somehow add another attack from 'RoW'. So NTaW is correct; it's 8 attacks on the charge.

RoW = rule of Walker, add 1 attack for each close combat weapon after the first...

The walker extra attacks rule replaces the normal extra attacks rule, you do not get +2 attacks for having two CC weapons.

If a Walker is armed with two or more Melee weapons, it gains +1 bonus Attack for each additional weapon after the first. Unlike other models, this is not limited to a single bonus Attack, so a Walker with three Melee weapons would have 2 bonus Attacks.

So it is 3 _Base +2 _{Roused to War} +1 _{additional CCW} +1 _Charge +1 _Rage = 8

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Two things:

 

1. Dreads still need more survivorability/make them monstrous creatures; but I love having all the attacks!

 

2. And with the way things are going to you believe the in 8th edition they may absolve us into the space marine codex with this FAQ seems to be panning out?

[Remtek]

The new cargo containers have a toughness value, might not be so far out they they receive a toughness value in the future. 

[Charlo]

See all this talk of Dreads being MC... I'd love it but I can't see it happening, not at this point.

 

They would need to update every marine codex in one go with a new profile and rules.

 

Just give Dreads an invuln & makes vehicles a little less destructible. 

[evildrcheese]

The new cargo containers have a toughness value, might not be so far out they they receive a toughness value in the future.

Really? Now that is interesting.

 

The discrepancy between walkers and MCs is probably my biggest bugbear with the game at the moment.

 

Really happy about the extra attacks errata though! Can't wait to finish my Libby dread!

 

EDC

[Quixus]

See all this talk of Dreads being MC... I'd love it but I can't see it happening, not at this point.

 

They would need to update every marine codex in one go with a new profile and rules.

 

Just give Dreads an invuln & makes vehicles a little less destructible. 

I get that it is unlikely, but I don't think that an invulnerable save would fix the issue. Mostly those are 5+ and so only negate 1/3 HP. The walker still faces all the problems vehicles have: stunned/shaken, removal of weapons, immobilization

 

And then there is the fairness and verisimilitude issue. Why is one bipedal machine with a pilot (dreadnought) a walker and another (Wraithknight/-lord, various Tau machines) an MC? It makes no sense. Making all of them walkers because that is what they are would make a lot more sense, more sense even than making dreadnoughts MCs.

[Jolemai]

 

The new cargo containers have a toughness value, might not be so far out they they receive a toughness value in the future.

Really? Now that is interesting.

 

The discrepancy between walkers and MCs is probably my biggest bugbear with the game at the moment.

 

Really happy about the extra attacks errata though! Can't wait to finish my Libby dread!

 

EDC

 

 

The containers are like Tarantulas (i.e. Marine Artillery) but with more wounds. I can't see wounds being transferred back to Dreadnoughts based on that.

[Charlo]

One thing I'd like them to change is the rear armour of dreads. When podding in it's just so vulnerable unless you start really far away...

 

I suppose the models aren't reflective of this though...

 

Really though, maybe just a few more HP or something... But that could go for anything. If you ask me a LR/ Spartan should ignore all damage results except destroyed going by the fluff.

 

But I digress - who knows where the game will be soon, all I know is that we are starting to get in a pretty nice and stable place for the moment.

[appiah4]

One thing I'd like them to change is the rear armour of dreads. When podding in it's just so vulnerable unless you start really far away...

 

I suppose the models aren't reflective of this though...

 

Really though, maybe just a few more HP or something... But that could go for anything. If you ask me a LR/ Spartan should ignore all damage results except destroyed going by the fluff.

 

But I digress - who knows where the game will be soon, all I know is that we are starting to get in a pretty nice and stable place for the moment.

Not sure if necessary. If anything I thin dreadnoughts are too OP as is especially Fragriosos.

[Bartali]

Murderfang is not str 10 (7 i think?) and only AV12, all our dreads are str 10 and we have the option of AV13 or more attacks with the DC variant. The Blizzard shield dread is pretty good, but it's only 3++ on front armor which is still tricky when podding them.

Don't get me wrong the Errata by GW is awesome, but the issue of getting them into combat is still the same. It's time to order some lucious pods

Yup. The FAQ is nice and all, but it still doesn't make Assault Dreads viable outside of the most casual of games.

Played a game with all 6 of my BA dreads today.

Still got tabled except for a 6 tac marines. Only three of the dreads even got into combat, Librarian died bouncing harmlessly off a Wraith Knight, regular dread got killed by an Autarch haywire grenade before he could attack and a deathcompany dread managed to die taking down a wraithlord.

Most effective dread was the regular plasma cannon/heavy flamer one. He at least killed 6 dire avengers in one shot when every other unit in the army managed to kill under 2.

As when the SM codex came out, I think the gun Dreads are the biggest winners. They're cheaper (especially with the gun points drops that SM got), and don't need the extra expense of a pod to function. 4A means they can punch their way out of a paper bag, and the grenade nerf helps them hugely.

[Charlo]

 

One thing I'd like them to change is the rear armour of dreads. When podding in it's just so vulnerable unless you start really far away...

 

I suppose the models aren't reflective of this though...

 

Really though, maybe just a few more HP or something... But that could go for anything. If you ask me a LR/ Spartan should ignore all damage results except destroyed going by the fluff.

 

But I digress - who knows where the game will be soon, all I know is that we are starting to get in a pretty nice and stable place for the moment.

Not sure if necessary. If anything I thin dreadnoughts are too OP as is especially Fragriosos.

Not OP at all dude.

 

They are slow, so the solution to that is to pod them, right? Well problem then is that you get in close to use our template weapons but then the enemy circle around and murder the rear armour.

 

It's great having A 13 front but it means bumpkis if they just get to the side/ rear.

 

The only one slightly considered OP could be a Leviathan, but you pay a LOT for that. More than a WK even I think.

[appiah4]

 

 

One thing I'd like them to change is the rear armour of dreads. When podding in it's just so vulnerable unless you start really far away...

 

I suppose the models aren't reflective of this though...

 

Really though, maybe just a few more HP or something... But that could go for anything. If you ask me a LR/ Spartan should ignore all damage results except destroyed going by the fluff.

 

But I digress - who knows where the game will be soon, all I know is that we are starting to get in a pretty nice and stable place for the moment.

Not sure if necessary. If anything I thin dreadnoughts are too OP as is especially Fragriosos.

Not OP at all dude.

 

They are slow, so the solution to that is to pod them, right? Well problem then is that you get in close to use our template weapons but then the enemy circle around and murder the rear armour.

 

It's great having A 13 front but it means bumpkis if they just get to the side/ rear.

 

The only one slightly considered OP could be a Leviathan, but you pay a LOT for that. More than a WK even I think.

That is precisely why you droppod two of them. Back to back. Rear armor: DENIED.

 

[Charlo]

Certainly one tactic that I shall employ in the future hahahha!

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

I get that it is unlikely, but I don't think that an invulnerable save would fix the issue. Mostly those are 5+ and so only negate 1/3 HP. The walker still faces all the problems vehicles have: stunned/shaken, removal of weapons, immobilization

 

And then there is the fairness and verisimilitude issue. Why is one bipedal machine with a pilot (dreadnought) a walker and another (Wraithknight/-lord, various Tau machines) an MC? It makes no sense. Making all of them walkers because that is what they are would make a lot more sense, more sense even than making dreadnoughts MCs.

 

We've talked about a house rule of 5++ for dreads within our community, and we agree that its kind of over powered. Most vehicles (barring Imperial Knights) don't get Invulnerable Saves standard unless they are made of paper, and even then most of those naturally get jink saves or are allowed an upgrade (such as flicker fields) but always having a 5+ invulnerable is really powerful on an AV13/12/10 model or even an Av 12/12/10 and even though its only a 30% chance to block the glance//pen that isn't including whiffs and not rolling high enough against the armor value.

 

I do concur that the discrepancy between MC and Walkers is huge. Personally I think only Daemons, Orks, and Tyranids should be allowed to have MC, but I'm okay with the Wraith Lord as it doesn't have an actual pilot but does have soul. Where as the Tau vehicles are Japanese Anime inspired Gundams, let's be honest. They have Pilots, they have all the candy, and should also have Armor Values not Toughness values. With the inclusion of T values on the new containers does make it interesting though.

 

With some of these changes I find it refreshing that they are taking our feedback so quickly and making decisions based off of it. I think we can make a solid case for Sniper Dreads again in our lists as well.

 

In any case I'm fairly excited to see how our FAQ stands up.