GW FAQ - Dreadnoughts P11, BA P19

[Silverson]

Does that mean that drop pod doors count as part of the hull for deployment out of them? Also when you place the drop pod on the table you need to decide straight away weather or not the doors are open before scatter as if you keep the doors up then reduce scatter, you may not be able to open one or more doors?

[Quixus]

• Apothecary's and I guess Champions, can purchase an upgraded weapon and then become an apothecary, retaining thier weapons! We have the guys as standard so uncertain if we can upgrade (RAW we cannot still though).

I'll believe it, when I see it in an actual FAQ.

• Confirmed only ONE relic per model.

It's only for SM though, not BA (yet) We don't have Chapter Relics.

• An Auspex can be used in Overwatch!

Do chargers even get cover saves in overwatch? The shooter does not select the target of the overwatch fire, so Jink should not apply.

• Drop pod doors are NOT ignored for game purposes! I never thought they were, but people insisted. This will be house rules I feel.

Weird. Doesn't that contradict previous FAQs?

In case you missed it:

Stormravens now are confirmed as the Contemptor Taxi. And maybe they can even transport Deredeos and Leviathans.

Mastercrafted bolter shots with combi weapons for Salamanders is interesting.

No more ICs for the Skyhammer Annihilation Force -well if you want the benefits of the formation.

Generic Chapter Masters can lead Battle Demi-Companies, Papa Smurf, Pedro etc. cannot.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I'm really excited for what the future holds. I hate that they needed 12 pages of FAQ/Erratta for a codex, even when some of the things asked are blatently obvious.

 

But I feel like the fixed super friends and a few other things. A lot of other over powered ridiculousness got reigned in some, although the vague answer to the land speeder could've been more clear, and a more simplified answer for the chapter tactics conundrum.

[Charlo]

Land speeder arc should've just been a number. The answer there will just lead to more arguments.

 

For the sake of it being a maneuverable skimmer support to be darting around, even just a 90 degree arc would have made sense...

 

And yeah - super friends was a weird cheese bought on by GW in-ability to keep the marine factions in line. The FNP synergy with us and Iron hands is sadly gone... But they'd still be my first choice for vehicle squads with free IWND

[Quixus]

And yeah - super friends was a weird cheese bought on by GW in-ability to keep the marine factions in line. The FNP synergy with us and Iron hands is sadly gone... But they'd still be my first choice for vehicle squads with free IWND

It's weird though that all armies of the Imperium are battle brothers but aren't.

[Riot Earp]

 

Weird. Doesn't that contradict previous FAQs?

 

In case you missed it:

Stormravens now are confirmed as the Contemptor Taxi. And maybe they can even transport Deredeos and Leviathans.

 

Mastercrafted bolter shots with combi weapons for Salamanders is interesting.

 

No more ICs for the Skyhammer Annihilation Force -well if you want the benefits of the formation.

 

Generic Chapter Masters can lead Battle Demi-Companies, Papa Smurf, Pedro etc. cannot.

 

 

Faq says dread of any kind so good to go for deredeo and leviathan. The follow up dreads are only example and no restriction.

[Charlo]

It does say "Codex Space Marines Dread" which would be a Dread, Ven Dread, Ironclad and now Venerable.

 

But, seeing as the others are a choice for the codex, just an additional datasheet they function the same - just a point of contention people might have.

 

 

 

And yeah - super friends was a weird cheese bought on by GW in-ability to keep the marine factions in line. The FNP synergy with us and Iron hands is sadly gone... But they'd still be my first choice for vehicle squads with free IWND

It's weird though that all armies of the Imperium are battle brothers but aren't.

 

 

Perhaps - but remember most of the Marine chapters are independent and will all even have their own goals mixed into battles as well. Sure, against a system ending Waaagh! Of Orks a few half dozen chapters will unite under a warlord, but it doesn't mean there isn't disagreements.

 

Battle Doctrine varys wildy and secrets are there to be kept ;)

[Quixus]

Faq says dread of any kind so good to go for deredeo and leviathan. The follow up dreads are only example and no restriction.

The rulebook already said dread of any kind and people still objected to Contemptors, Leviathans etc.

Perhaps - but remember most of the Marine chapters are independent and will all even have their own goals mixed into battles as well. Sure, against a system ending Waaagh! Of Orks a few half dozen chapters will unite under a warlord, but it doesn't mean there isn't disagreements.

Battle Doctrine varys wildy and secrets are there to be kept

I get that there would be friction and possibly there shouldn't be any synergies when two chapters work together, but it makes little sense that the two chapters lose their own chapter tactics.

[Morticon]

• Apothecary's and I guess Champions, can purchase an upgraded weapon and then become an apothecary, retaining thier weapons! We have the guys as standard so uncertain if we can upgrade (RAW we cannot still though).

I'll believe it, when I see it in an actual FAQ.

• Confirmed only ONE relic per model.

It's only for SM though, not BA (yet) We don't have Chapter Relics.

• An Auspex can be used in Overwatch!

Do chargers even get cover saves in overwatch? The shooter does not select the target of the overwatch fire, so Jink should not apply.

• Drop pod doors are NOT ignored for game purposes! I never thought they were, but people insisted. This will be house rules I feel.

Weird. Doesn't that contradict previous FAQs?

Re: charges and cover -yup. they get cover saves. And they may take jink saves too.

As for the pod debacle, it creates far more probs than it solves. If you measure from the pod, its part of the vehicle. A model cant occupy the space of another model, so, it blocks movement for out models too. Also, its a huge footprint that cant pin-point place now. Its just odd, odd. I'm sure it will be worked out and reversed in the final.

[Charlo]

An update:

 

Apparently clarified they gave the WRONG answer for apothecary equipment and have changed the ruling.

 

You take the upgrade, you DO NOT get to take other equipment.

 

And I agree Mort. What is to say you must open ALL of the doors? What if you scatter and it is fine but you open the door onto an enemy? Is that a mishap, or does the door simply not open? OR do you use the guidance system after opening the doors, calculating the minimum scatter to get the doors 1" away from enemy models

 

X.X

[Quixus]

 

Re: charges and cover -yup. they get cover saves.  And they may take jink saves too.

Which position is used when determining whether a charging model has cover? The initial position? In base contact with the enemy? Somewhere in between?

 

Concerning jink saves, I am not convinced:

 

When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink.

The charged unit cannot select a target, it can merely chose to fire or not. Ah now I get it, the Jink can still be active, if the unit chose to jink in the opponent's turn.

[Jolemai]

Overwatch is made before models move into combat, so it would be the initial position. I think this ruling would be more likely to affect someone like the Tau as subsequent units may have cover between them and charging unit.

[Morticon]

 

 

Re: charges and cover -yup. they get cover saves.  And they may take jink saves too.

Which position is used when determining whether a charging model has cover? The initial position? In base contact with the enemy? Somewhere in between?

 

Concerning jink saves, I am not convinced:

 

When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink.

The charged unit cannot select a target, it can merely chose to fire or not. Ah now I get it, the Jink can still be active, if the unit chose to jink in the opponent's turn.

 

 

"An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the

enemy’s Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves

and so on"

 

 

 

[Quixus]

@Morticon:The target selection process is explicitly overridden. The unit cannot choose to shoot at any unit in range, only the one charging.

[Morticon]

@Morticon:The target selection process is explicitly overridden. The unit cannot choose to shoot at any unit in range, only the one charging.

Which means that the unit charging will be the unit being selected for the shooting attack, no? 

 

There's no differentiation required for how the selection is done.  The unit charging is the one that is now the target of a shooting attack.  

 

 

 

[Tyriks]

I agree with Morticon. Since you are choosing whether you are firing overwatch, you are selecting a target.

[appiah4]

I disagree, for the following reasons:

 

1. When firing overwatch are using your right to fire your weapons at another unit as per a rule different from the firing turn rules that allow you to target something.  Overwatch is like going to ground, its a reaction to an enemy action that does not bestow the right to select a target.  It just allows you to fire at the unit charging you.

2.  Jinking requires being selected as a target.  It is RAW not possible to jink against overwatch because overwatch fire skips selecting targets completely. 

 

It also makes sense RAI because jinking while you're charging, wat?

[Charlo]

Resolved as a normal shooting attack.

 

That's all I need to know really, agree with Mort.

 

Plus, remember jetbikes/ bikes wont necessarily just beeline towards the opponent, they'll shimmy and dart along the way.

[Lucumon]

And I agree Mort. What is to say you must open ALL of the doors? 

 

I am going to glue at least 2 (maybe 4) doors shut.  That way, only one door opens, and I can point it in any direction I want.... which will always be in the direction I want dudes to go.

 

Drop pods are open topped vehicles, the doors are not weapons nor decoration (as they are like 90% of the outside)... so my sergeant will be riding the tip of the door as it opens!

[Jolemai]

 

And I agree Mort. What is to say you must open ALL of the doors? 

 

I am going to glue at least 2 (maybe 4) doors shut.  That way, only one door opens, and I can point it in any direction I want.... which will always be in the direction I want dudes to go.

 

Drop pods are open topped vehicles, the doors are not weapons nor decoration (as they are like 90% of the outside)... so my sergeant will be riding the tip of the door as it opens!

 

 

Wont the remaining doors block line of sight to the Pod's weapons?

[Xenith]

I disagree, for the following reasons:

 

1. When firing overwatch are using your right to fire your weapons at another unit as per a rule different from the firing turn rules that allow you to target something.  Overwatch is like going to ground, its a reaction to an enemy action that does not bestow the right to select a target.  It just allows you to fire at the unit charging you.

2.  Jinking requires being selected as a target.  It is RAW not possible to jink against overwatch because overwatch fire skips selecting targets completely. 

 

It also makes sense RAI because jinking while you're charging, wat?

 

What happens when you are potentially being charged by more than one unit?

 

You elect to shoot at the the first unit. You can also choose to not shoot at the first unit, and try and shoot the second, if you like, but run the risk of being locked in combat.

 

Either way, you're picking a target.

 

Also:

 

My assault squad are in range of a single enemy unit. This is the only unit they can shoot. Are they selecting them as a target?

 

According to your line of thinking, no, because they are automatically chosen when you say "I'll shoot" by the nature of the weapon profiles. As the unit was not selected as a target (but automatically the target, because they are the only unit in range) they cannot declare a jink.

[appiah4]

Resolved as a normal shooting attack.

 

That's all I need to know really, agree with Mort.

 

Plus, remember jetbikes/ bikes wont necessarily just beeline towards the opponent, they'll shimmy and dart along the way.

 

Resolving AS something is not the same thing as BEING that thing, RAW.  It resolves AS a normal shooting attack, but it only RESOLVES as one, so you apply normal shooting attack rules for its RESOLUTION (i.e. S vs T, AP vs AS, etc.), it does not behave as one otherwise (which is evident in the WS1 rule anyway, if it was completely treated as a shooting attack you would not have WS1 - it is a special kind of action that only RESOLVES as a shooting attack).  As such, it NEVER selects targets.  Jink saves REQUIRE being targeted.  It simply DOES NOT apply to overwatch.

 

 

I disagree, for the following reasons:

 

1. When firing overwatch are using your right to fire your weapons at another unit as per a rule different from the firing turn rules that allow you to target something.  Overwatch is like going to ground, its a reaction to an enemy action that does not bestow the right to select a target.  It just allows you to fire at the unit charging you.

2.  Jinking requires being selected as a target.  It is RAW not possible to jink against overwatch because overwatch fire skips selecting targets completely. 

 

It also makes sense RAI because jinking while you're charging, wat?

 

What happens when you are potentially being charged by more than one unit?

 

You elect to shoot at the the first unit.

 

 

No you ONLY GET TO and therefore HAVE TO shoot at the first unit.  It is defined and imposed by the rules, and RAW you do not satisfy a prerequisite for using Jink saves, which is being SELECTED AS A TARGET.

 

The rule says THE UNIT HAS TO BE SELECTED AS A TARGET, not that the unit has to be a target.  RAW there is a difference and that difference applies here.

[Xenith]

 

 

 

No you HAVE TO shoot at the first unit.  Again, you do not get to SELECT a target.  It is defined and imposed by the rules,

 

 

Page ref, please?

 

All I have is:

 

"As soon as a charge has been declared against one of your units, that unit can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker – it doesn’t have to, but it’s often a good idea."

[Quixus]

On the point of resolution of a shooting attack, I agree with appiah5.
 

Plus, remember jetbikes/ bikes wont necessarily just beeline towards the opponent, they'll shimmy and dart along the way.

If you want to introduce verisimilitude, jetbikes should get a reduction to their charge range, if they go zig zag.
 
@Xenith: there is no selection process in the line you quoted nor anywhere else in the overwatch rules.
For your convenience:

:  to choose (as by fitness or excellence) from a number or group :  pick out

You are not picking out a target during overwatch, and the opposing player did not select his unit as a target either. So the charging unit has not been selected and thus cannot opt to jink. The charged unit can only decide to shoot or not.

[appiah4]

 

 

 

 

No you HAVE TO shoot at the first unit.  Again, you do not get to SELECT a target.  It is defined and imposed by the rules,

 

 

Page ref, please?

 

All I have is:

 

"As soon as a charge has been declared against one of your units, that unit can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker – it doesn’t have to, but it’s often a good idea."

 

 

Charges are declared in order, and moved in the order they were declared, and you only get to Overwatch against the first charger because during the second charge you are already locked in combat.  Again, you do not get to SELECT a target.  It is defined and imposed by the rules, and RAW you do not satisfy a prerequisite for using Jink saves, which is being SELECTED AS A TARGET.

 

I don't have the BRB handy but you can find it in there or someone can post a pp.