Damon Nightman Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 What if I'm shooting at a unit on my turn and that unit jinks, then on their next turn they fire snap shots and charge my unit and my unit fired over watch at them. Does that unit get jinking saves? I'm new so I have no idea, but I thought the jinking carried over to their turn which typically means just firing snap shots, but in this case they charged and were fired upon so I would think the jinking applies? Again I have no idea, just my thought process while bored at work.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrne Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 And I agree Mort. What is to say you must open ALL of the doors? I am going to glue at least 2 (maybe 4) doors shut. That way, only one door opens, and I can point it in any direction I want.... which will always be in the direction I want dudes to go. Drop pods are open topped vehicles, the doors are not weapons nor decoration (as they are like 90% of the outside)... so my sergeant will be riding the tip of the door as it opens! And this is what's wrong with 40k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucumon Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 And this is what's wrong with 40k. Let's make this worse: A drop pod, opened, has a diameter of 10". Given how you have to stay 1" away, let's round the 'area' of effect at 100 square inches The table has 3,456 square inches. A Gladius can take 5 drop pods... including obj secured infantry, this is about 580 square inches of objective secured for 440 points. In an 1,850 game, you can squeeze in 3 demi companies (with a dreadnought in a pod each... so 6 pods per demi company). About 700 square inches per demi company... 2,100 squad inches of objective secured goodness. Then the game is basically "let's chew through 54 hull points" for the opponent otherwise the gladius wins the Obj Sec game. What an interesting idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 And this is what's wrong with 40k. Let's make this worse: A drop pod, opened, has a diameter of 10". Given how you have to stay 1" away, let's round the 'area' of effect at 100 square inches The table has 3,456 square inches. A Gladius can take 5 drop pods... including obj secured infantry, this is about 580 square inches of objective secured for 440 points. In an 1,850 game, you can squeeze in 3 demi companies (with a dreadnought in a pod each... so 6 pods per demi company). About 700 square inches per demi company... 2,100 squad inches of objective secured goodness. Then the game is basically "let's chew through 54 hull points" for the opponent otherwise the gladius wins the Obj Sec game. What an interesting idea... LOL ...c'mon dudes. I realize for tournaments yeah, well... but 40K has already required a heavy sprinkling of common sense, and at this point, given their current position I'd expect them to make some further clarifications on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 "Are you going to shoot overwatch?" "Yes I am going to shoot overwatch, at that unit that is charging me." Target selected. BOOM. We're done here. Pack it up people! ;D A lot of this is in the ambiguity of the word "targeted", but really, if you are shooting at something you are targetting it, unless a blast has scattered.... On the point of resolution of a shooting attack, I agree with appiah5. Plus, remember jetbikes/ bikes wont necessarily just beeline towards the opponent, they'll shimmy and dart along the way. If you want to introduce verisimilitude, jetbikes should get a reduction to their charge range, if they go zig zag. Perhaps, but conversely the same could be said that "they are fast enough to zig zag and still make the distance." it's all conjecture and just a bit of fun with the narrative of the game, I was just offering a fun way to resolve the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 For a given value of interesting, certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 What if I'm shooting at a unit on my turn and that unit jinks, then on their next turn they fire snap shots and charge my unit and my unit fired over watch at them. Does that unit get jinking saves? I'm new so I have no idea, but I thought the jinking carried over to their turn which typically means just firing snap shots, but in this case they charged and were fired upon so I would think the jinking applies? Again I have no idea, just my thought process while bored at work.... That is true. We are talking about the case when the unit is not yet in "jink mode" when it charges and the charged unit chooses to fire overwatch. "Are you going to shoot overwatch?" "Yes I am going to shoot overwatch, at that unit that is charging me." Target selected. BOOM. We're done here. Pack it up people! ;D A lot of this is in the ambiguity of the word "targeted", but really, if you are shooting at something you are targetting it, unless a blast has scattered.... It is not about being targeted or not it is about being selected. The player of the unit being charged cannot select (i.e. choose for a group) the unit with the jink rule. Perhaps, but conversely the same could be said that "they are fast enough to zig zag and still make the distance." it's all conjecture and just a bit of fun with the narrative of the game, I was just offering a fun way to resolve the issue. That then would merit a charge range bonus if they do not jink. either way the maximum distance between the units should not be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 "Are you going to shoot overwatch?" "Yes I am going to shoot overwatch, at that unit that is charging me." Target selected. BOOM. We're done here. Pack it up people! ;D A lot of this is in the ambiguity of the word "targeted", but really, if you are shooting at something you are targetting it, unless a blast has scattered.... On the point of resolution of a shooting attack, I agree with appiah5. Plus, remember jetbikes/ bikes wont necessarily just beeline towards the opponent, they'll shimmy and dart along the way.If you want to introduce verisimilitude, jetbikes should get a reduction to their charge range, if they go zig zag.Perhaps, but conversely the same could be said that "they are fast enough to zig zag and still make the distance." it's all conjecture and just a bit of fun with the narrative of the game, I was just offering a fun way to resolve the issue.No. Shooting something as mandated by rules IS NOT selecting a target. You are RAIing. Overwatch fire does not select targets as per RAW it resolves a shooting attack against the assaulter with specific conditions. You cant jink against it because you cant jink unless you are selected as a target. I think a mod should move this to rules forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 What if I'm shooting at a unit on my turn and that unit jinks, then on their next turn they fire snap shots and charge my unit and my unit fired over watch at them. Does that unit get jinking saves? I'm new so I have no idea, but I thought the jinking carried over to their turn which typically means just firing snap shots, but in this case they charged and were fired upon so I would think the jinking applies? Again I have no idea, just my thought process while bored at work....That is true. We are talking about the case when the unit is not yet in "jink mode" when it charges and the charged unit chooses to fire overwatch. "Are you going to shoot overwatch?" "Yes I am going to shoot overwatch, at that unit that is charging me." Target selected. BOOM. We're done here. Pack it up people! ;D A lot of this is in the ambiguity of the word "targeted", but really, if you are shooting at something you are targetting it, unless a blast has scattered.... It is not about being targeted or not it is about being selected. The player of the unit being charged cannot select (i.e. choose for a group) the unit with the jink rule.Perhaps, but conversely the same could be said that "they are fast enough to zig zag and still make the distance." it's all conjecture and just a bit of fun with the narrative of the game, I was just offering a fun way to resolve the issue.That then would merit a charge range bonus if they do not jink. either way the maximum distance between the units should not be the same. My mistake, thanks for clarifying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrne Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 And this is what's wrong with 40k. Let's make this worse: A drop pod, opened, has a diameter of 10". Given how you have to stay 1" away, let's round the 'area' of effect at 100 square inches The table has 3,456 square inches. A Gladius can take 5 drop pods... including obj secured infantry, this is about 580 square inches of objective secured for 440 points. In an 1,850 game, you can squeeze in 3 demi companies (with a dreadnought in a pod each... so 6 pods per demi company). About 700 square inches per demi company... 2,100 squad inches of objective secured goodness. Then the game is basically "let's chew through 54 hull points" for the opponent otherwise the gladius wins the Obj Sec game. What an interesting idea... Can't tell if your just pointing out the issues or you really would play glueing 4 doors shut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucumon Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I mean don't glue the doors shut and the model's diameter is 10 inches. I'm pointing out how inane the draft drop pod rules are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrne Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Yeah I agree. The FAQS just opened up a can of worms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenricusTyranicus Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 There are in fact times when you select a target in overwatch. For example, I once had a guardsman squad of three and a vanguard veteran squad in the same area. I charged the enemy squad with the guardsmen first, to eat the overwatch. My opponent did NOT overwatch, however, because if the guardsmen had failed their charge, he would not be locked in combat, and could fire overwatch at the second squad, the scary, powersword loaded Vanguard. You don't have to fire overwatch, and as long as you aren't locked in combat, it doesn't have to be fired at the first squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Regardless of the semantics of selecting a target versus choosing to shoot them, the rules do specifically allow for jinking in response to overwatch. As pointed out, overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack. Therefore, every feature of a normal shooting attack is exactly the same unless otherwise delineated by the rule, which says nothing about preventing jinking. Since it does explicitly make exceptions (such as being incapable of causing morale or pinning checks), but does not exclude jinking, we must read that as something unaffected by the rule. Having said that, I do agree that it is absurd that a unit could jink while charging, at least without taking a charge range penalty or something. I do not think this is a good thing. But the way the rules are written, it would be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 There are in fact times when you select a target in overwatch. For example, I once had a guardsman squad of three and a vanguard veteran squad in the same area. I charged the enemy squad with the guardsmen first, to eat the overwatch. My opponent did NOT overwatch, however, because if the guardsmen had failed their charge, he would not be locked in combat, and could fire overwatch at the second squad, the scary, powersword loaded Vanguard. You don't have to fire overwatch, and as long as you aren't locked in combat, it doesn't have to be fired at the first squad. Not choosing to shoot at your first assaulter is not the same as selecting to fire on the second assaulter, you are not even guaranteed that you will be able to shoot at them, it depends on whether the first assaulter fails their charge roll or not. People are really reading way too much into it. It's your turn to overwatch, are you given a choice to SELECT your target? No. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 There are in fact times when you select a target in overwatch. For example, I once had a guardsman squad of three and a vanguard veteran squad in the same area. I charged the enemy squad with the guardsmen first, to eat the overwatch. My opponent did NOT overwatch, however, because if the guardsmen had failed their charge, he would not be locked in combat, and could fire overwatch at the second squad, the scary, powersword loaded Vanguard. You don't have to fire overwatch, and as long as you aren't locked in combat, it doesn't have to be fired at the first squad. Not choosing to shoot at your first assaulter is not the same as selecting to fire on the second assaulter, you are not even guaranteed that you will be able to shoot at them, it depends on whether the first assaulter fails their charge roll or not. People are really reading way too much into it. It's your turn to overwatch, are you given a choice to SELECT your target? Yes, by selecting to shoot Overwatch at the selected unit charging at you. End of story. FTFY ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Whether you select overwatch is besides the point, whether you selected overwatch is totally irrelevant for Jink. Where did you choose the charging unit from a group of units? You didn't, so you did not select it. You merely chose to shoot at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 You guys are putting too much scrutiny on the word 'Targeted' anyway. As the recent FAQ already mentioned, you can Jink when a blast scatters onto your unit even if that unit wasn't the original target of the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 There are in fact times when you select a target in overwatch. For example, I once had a guardsman squad of three and a vanguard veteran squad in the same area. I charged the enemy squad with the guardsmen first, to eat the overwatch. My opponent did NOT overwatch, however, because if the guardsmen had failed their charge, he would not be locked in combat, and could fire overwatch at the second squad, the scary, powersword loaded Vanguard. You don't have to fire overwatch, and as long as you aren't locked in combat, it doesn't have to be fired at the first squad. Not choosing to shoot at your first assaulter is not the same as selecting to fire on the second assaulter, you are not even guaranteed that you will be able to shoot at them, it depends on whether the first assaulter fails their charge roll or not. People are really reading way too much into it. It's your turn to overwatch, are you given a choice to SELECT your target? Yes, by selecting to shoot Overwatch at the selected unit charging at you. End of story. FTFY No. You guys are putting too much scrutiny on the word 'Targeted' anyway. As the recent FAQ already mentioned, you can Jink when a blast scatters onto your unit even if that unit wasn't the original target of the attack. You can't put "too much scrutiny" on wording of a ruleset based on RAW, it is by nature defined by scrutiny of wording. I took this to the Rules forum btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Per the First Draft FAQ: They answered the question about Dreadnoughts....we get 2 per our profile. HOWEVER! They have given us this optional special rule as long as your opponent is okay with it! Death Company Dreads with 5 base attacks!!! <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 At least they put inthe FAQ what belongs in a FAQ. Our dreadnoughts only have 2 attacks, that is RAW. They should also issue an erratum making that houserule official. Why don't they dare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Roused to War - good enough for me! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Not sure, but by this we now know that our Scouts will be BS3 until they are updated.Edit: Furiousos would have 5 attacks after 2 Blood Talons or Blood Fists, and 6 on the charge, Death Company Dreads will have 6 attacks afterwards and 8 on the charge! HOLY COW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Good enough for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 This is what people did already, right? Talked to their opponents about ignoring discrepancies GW could easily errata with fewer keystrokes than their official Dreadnought FAQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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