GW FAQ - Dreadnoughts P11, BA P19

[Omega-soul]

Am I the only one who sad?

In answer to that question, I'll just copy what I wrote on the rumors/announcement forum:

"...these remain the official characteristics until such a time as they are updated." Sooooo, if you play those factions, you for the next 4-5 years, right? Play it with extra attacks if your opponent lets you? Fine, but why stop there? Just go all out and play a fan made codex. In fact, why buy any GW products at all? Use fan made everything for your games. Army Men Astra Militarum here I come. These anti consumer policies are starting to really hit a nerve.

I am trying to stay correct, but some things are really inconsistent. And it's not about the rules - it's about them trying to do things (obviously they want to do things better) but they can't please everybody.

I just hope they will see this and correct their actions accordingly.

I think everybody can understand that it's not about dreadnoughts - there is much more issue of same type - squadroning vehicles/WS to scouts etc. And instead of one streamlined answer - yes/no they multiply issues. That's what upseting me really.

[Phiasco]

Am I the only one who sad?

In answer to that question, I'll just copy what I wrote on the rumors/announcement forum:

"...these remain the official characteristics until such a time as they are updated." Sooooo, if you play those factions, you for the next 4-5 years, right? Play it with extra attacks if your opponent lets you? Fine, but why stop there? Just go all out and play a fan made codex. In fact, why buy any GW products at all? Use fan made everything for your games. Army Men Astra Militarum here I come. These anti consumer policies are starting to really hit a nerve.

Yesterday your dreadnoughts were 2 attacks, period. Today unless your opponent is totally unreasonable you can use the "Roused to War" rule. I don't see any reason to go negative at this point and "4-5 years" is hardly the trend of Codex releases we've seen as of late.

I see what you're saying, and I fully admit that the bad mood I'm in from other things is definitely shading my response to the FAQ that came out today. However, I must point out that our dreads still only have 2 attacks. That is the official ruling. If I'm to start house ruling things then I might as well house rule an entire codex.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Charles enthusiasm has certainly caught on and a DC dread sounds pretty good. But I still think a regular fragioso is the way to go.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I gotcha... though I have to think this is, possibly, a better solution. We've had a "band-aid" (White Dwarf) codex in the past. I'd rather they say, go ahead and use this house-rule for now, while we un**** your actual Codex.

Even in 3rd edition they released a 'band-aid' errata to the core-game assault rules that was basically designed with the sole purpose of slapping the Blood Angel Rhino-rush in the face. I don't want any band-aids -- just an official codex when it's ready.

[appiah4]

Time to assemble Cassor the Damned..

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I just can't wait to get this guy back on the table! ...in my group we also give Dreads a 5++ Invulnerable ("tactical dreadnought" armor gets it why not standard dread armor right?).

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/11/9/63290_sm-Dakka%20Painting%20Challenge%2C%20Death%20Company%2C%20Dreadnought%2C%20Nitty%20Gritty%20Armor.jpg

[Lasuria]

Am I the only one who sad?

In answer to that question, I'll just copy what I wrote on the rumors/announcement forum:

"...these remain the official characteristics until such a time as they are updated." Sooooo, if you play those factions, you for the next 4-5 years, right? Play it with extra attacks if your opponent lets you? Fine, but why stop there? Just go all out and play a fan made codex. In fact, why buy any GW products at all? Use fan made everything for your games. Army Men Astra Militarum here I come. These anti consumer policies are starting to really hit a nerve.

The other way of understanding the GW response would be to think that they might release a proper errata after this FAQ to adress those issues no ?

[RedemptionNL]

And don't forget Quickened Librarian Dreads, they get right up there with 7-9 Force weapon attacks on the charge.

Shouldn't it be 8-10 if the dread attacks with the force halberd?

2 base +2 houserule +1 two melee weapons +1 charge +1 furious charge + d3 Quickening = 8-10

Furious Charge doesn't grant any extra attacks, just +1 Strength.

[Phiasco]

Am I the only one who sad?

In answer to that question, I'll just copy what I wrote on the rumors/announcement forum:

"...these remain the official characteristics until such a time as they are updated." Sooooo, if you play those factions, you for the next 4-5 years, right? Play it with extra attacks if your opponent lets you? Fine, but why stop there? Just go all out and play a fan made codex. In fact, why buy any GW products at all? Use fan made everything for your games. Army Men Astra Militarum here I come. These anti consumer policies are starting to really hit a nerve.

The other way of understanding the GW response would be to think that they might release a proper errata after this FAQ to adress those issues no ?

...No. What in their history would make me give them the benefit of the doubt like that?

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Am I the only one who sad?

Generally speaking - I had a couple of games when I had an approval to have a 4 attack base on my Death dread... so I don't need GW approval for houseruling (not to mention it's written in rulebook)

 

And what happens when I'l take all my 5 dreads, take librarians, tell my friend what they do? He will _ me off.

How is that conceptually different from - I want my Dante/Seth to have an orbital strike - they are Chapter masters why wouldn't they?

But that is ridiculous and unfair.

Game already have that many controversal themes - why multiplying this?

If they want +2 attack - why not errate this? If they don't - why suggesting contrary?

 

Not to mention how lame it sounded that they couldn't update other codicies - Space wolves tablet enhanced wulfen edition came out after 9 (!) month and it's

digital - still no updates for their dreads.

 

They better not to include that Designer's note and leave as it is (2 attack per codex), saving right answer for updated versions. Or made a propper Errata (including hellbrutes)

They did this to simplify things. There are several dreads that have more than 4 attacks after the update that would have marginalized them otherwise. Also, let's look at it this way, are TOs really not going to allow dreads to have +2 attacks? It is better for the game as a whole otherwise, and they already don't like the drop pod ruling and are going to do their own thing there anyways. It is not a huge deal to talk to an opponent before hand. And e-mail any TOs for tournament rulings to prepare, or read the .pdf they send out, to see how they rule dreads.

 

Edit; and to be fair if you've played in any tournaments ever, you use a lot of "house" rules like ATC having last blood, LVO having modified mission, etc. as well as "official" read unofficial, rules for tournament players as well as modified ban lists etc. those are really the only people in my opinion who should be irked. Everyone else just playing pick up games usually find middle grounds in the social contract with some give and take leniency.

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

8 S10AP2 attacks at initiative step 5 in a BSF...I think DC dreads just became my knight-slayer of choice.

[ThatOneMarshal]

If you can get him there of course. At least in my experience AV 12 doesn't last very long now. Unless of course you spam the crap out of it.

[Quixus]

2 base +2 houserule +1 two melee weapons +1 charge +1 furious charge + d3 Quickening = 8-10

Furious Charge doesn't grant any extra attacks, just +1 Strength.

Woops, I confused Furious Charge with Rage. Nevermind.

They did this to simplify things. There are several dreads that have more than 4 attacks after the update that would have marginalized them otherwise.

It says of any type. So Bjorn et al. also get the extra attacks. FW dreads unfortunately aren't in C:BA/GK/SW.

Also, let's look at it this way, are TOs really not going to allow dreads to have +2 attacks?

Who knows?

I gotcha... though I have to think this is, possibly, a better solution. We've had a "band-aid" (White Dwarf) codex in the past. I'd rather they say, go ahead and use this house-rule for now, while we un**** your actual Codex.

Even in 3rd edition they released a 'band-aid' errata to the core-game assault rules that was basically designed with the sole purpose of slapping the Blood Angel Rhino-rush in the face. I don't want any band-aids -- just an official codex when it's ready.

A band-aid is better than nothing as long as you can be sure that you are allowed to apply it, and no one can rip it off.

[Omega-soul]

 

Am I the only one who sad?

Generally speaking - I had a couple of games when I had an approval to have a 4 attack base on my Death dread... so I don't need GW approval for houseruling (not to mention it's written in rulebook)

 

And what happens when I'l take all my 5 dreads, take librarians, tell my friend what they do? He will _ me off.

How is that conceptually different from - I want my Dante/Seth to have an orbital strike - they are Chapter masters why wouldn't they?

But that is ridiculous and unfair.

Game already have that many controversal themes - why multiplying this?

If they want +2 attack - why not errate this? If they don't - why suggesting contrary?

 

Not to mention how lame it sounded that they couldn't update other codicies - Space wolves tablet enhanced wulfen edition came out after 9 (!) month and it's

digital - still no updates for their dreads.

 

They better not to include that Designer's note and leave as it is (2 attack per codex), saving right answer for updated versions. Or made a propper Errata (including hellbrutes)

They did this to simplify things. There are several dreads that have more than 4 attacks after the update that would have marginalized them otherwise. Also, let's look at it this way, are TOs really not going to allow dreads to have +2 attacks? It is better for the game as a whole otherwise, and they already don't like the drop pod ruling and are going to do their own thing there anyways. It is not a huge deal to talk to an opponent before hand. And e-mail any TOs for tournament rulings to prepare, or read the .pdf they send out, to see how they rule dreads.

 

Edit; and to be fair if you've played in any tournaments ever, you use a lot of "house" rules like ATC having last blood, LVO having modified mission, etc. as well as "official" read unofficial, rules for tournament players as well as modified ban lists etc. those are really the only people in my opinion who should be irked. Everyone else just playing pick up games usually find middle grounds in the social contract with some give and take leniency.

 

 

What simple in first statement that say - use codex entry and second statement - well we know that there is an issue, so you can houserule that?

Also can't see any marginalization - it's pretty clear wording - any type of dreadnought get +2 attack. This IS simple.

 

You know it's like in court - you can't have 2 different defence like - I am innocent and ok I am guilty but i have a extenuating circumstances.

You can chose only one unless you're lying or inconsistent.

 

In my area 80% of games played by ETC rule-pack clarify so I don't actually bother what GW decides for this point.

But as I said - problem not in dreadnoughts but the way that GW make their answers.

They MUST clarify frequently asked questions in conflict situations.

They said - Contemptors dataslate in Angels of Death only for vanilla Space marines - and it's accepted. Anihilation skyhammer formation? No problems.

They didn't answered - If you want them - you may use it with your BA/DA codex just ask opponent.

 

So it's better stick to one truth otherwise they only compromise themselves.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

What I meant by marginalize is instead of going through multiple stats lines they just said house rule +2 attacks, if they simply brought all dreads to 4 attacks Murder fang, Death Company Dreads and the like wouldn't be any more powerful than a standard dread when they are meant to better than regular dreads. I'm unconcerned with this as its not as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.

 

Edit: I thought they did answer completely about the formations and such that only codex: space marines can take them and no other factions outside said codex. I don't see why that's a problem. Also the FAQs for DA and BA aren't out yet. The formations even within the squadrons are completely different from streamlined stats lines. So BS4 on BA scouts will be ask the opponent, in the same light as dreads. And finally remember this is just a first draft and is not official yet. Are there some ambiguous answer from some of the FAQ yes, but I've not really had any issues with G-dubbs on their rulings thus far.

[Sans Mercy]

8 S10AP2 attacks at initiative step 5 in a BSF...I think DC dreads just became my knight-slayer of choice.

 How is it 8? What am I missing, I thought it would be 7.

[NTaW]

DC dread base attacks: 5 (3 in Codex, +2 for 'Roused to War')

+2 Rage

+1 2x CCW

 

Unless you're running the Strike Force Mortalis, Flesh Tearers Strike Force, or cast some power that adds attacks 8 it is.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I really feel like I'm talking to one or more of you on Facebook about this topic...

[Sans Mercy]

DC dread base attacks: 5 (3 in Codex, +2 for 'Roused to War')

+2 Rage

+1 2x CCW

 

Unless you're running the Strike Force Mortalis, Flesh Tearers Strike Force, or cast some power that adds attacks 8 it is.

Well ouch, I'll keep this in mind ;x

[Dont-Be-Haten]

DC dread base attacks: 5 (3 in Codex, +2 for 'Roused to War')

+2 Rage

+1 2x CCW

 

Unless you're running the Strike Force Mortalis, Flesh Tearers Strike Force, or cast some power that adds attacks 8 it is.

Don't forget you're re-rolling wounds with Blood Talons as well :D

[Helias_Tancred]

DC dread base attacks: 5 (3 in Codex, +2 for 'Roused to War')

+2 Rage

+1 2x CCW

 

Unless you're running the Strike Force Mortalis, Flesh Tearers Strike Force, or cast some power that adds attacks 8 it is.

 

That was my question. Once they get around to updating our codex what will the Death Company Dreadnought have, and you nailed it! Hopefully that is what they will "officially" become. Makes sense.

[SM1981]

Sadly no news for scouts :-(

[Riot Earp]

We agreed in our gaming group to apply this rule and also set hellbrutes to 4 attacks up cause we have allot of chaosplayers in there.

I´m nearly pleased but the restriction talk with your player may going to be a problem on turnaments.

Time will tell..

[RedemptionNL]

Sadly no news for scouts :-(

Well the Space Wolves Scouts are already BS/WS 4, so that would only turn up in the BA FAQ. Let's hope they at least address it with an 'official houserule' like they did for the Dread attacks.

[Jolemai]

Seeing how we don't need two threads on the same subject, I've merged them. Try to keep all discussion about the current swathe or draft FAQs - relevant to us or not - here please.