Unit of the Week XIV - Celestians

[Aqui]

Unit of the week I - Exorcist

Unit of the week II - Imolator

Unit of the week III - Repentia

Unit of the Week IV - Battle Sister Squad (BSS)

Unit of the Week V - The Penitent Engine

Unit of the Week VI - The Canoness

Unit of the Week VII - Ministorum Priests/Jacobus

Unit of the Week VIII - Celestine

Unit of the Week - IX - Seraphim

Unit of the Week X - Retributor Sisters Squad (RSS)

Unit of the Week XI - Sororitas Command Squad (SCS)

Unit of the Week XII - The Repressor

Unit of the Week XIII - Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave (EBC)

With only three weeks to go before this series of topics ends (with Dominions, Sororitas Rhino and the Avenger left to go), our attention turns to Celestian Squads. I haven't made any squads yet, but from what I have read, they are rarely taken as their role as non jump assault is done as well as, if not better by other squad types. So, is there a way that they can be taken and used to their fullest? Or are they in a position where they aren't effective? If so, what is it that stops them from doing their job properly?

The floor is open

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

Well, I guess the pro is that for one of our CC squads they have the appropriate WS to do something when in CC. Now, and here is the kicker that really gets many things, you have to get into combat, and you have to have CC weapons that will do something when stuck-in. First, we have no assault vehicles, though the AoF does lend greatly for movements. With only base weapons for the squad, the superior is the only one that would be doing anything reliable. So for 5 more points than the basic sister squad we do gain quite a bit, but then your taking two base squads as a cost just to get a third slightly better squad, though again for a good price. You also better be taking a power weapon on the superior, making at minimum an 80pt ablative wound sink to get one decently dangerous model into combat.

 

/br While I sometime run a third sister squad, in general there are too many other things I'm trying to fit in (dominions, exorcists, seraphim, other allies) to afford something like this. When (if) we get access to assault vehicles (or even grenades), these ladies will be brought back to the light. Until then, we are pretty pigeon-holed for usable units.

[Servant of Dante]

Their AoF is very underpowered. Furious Charge for one round out of the game is just not very good. Their not-amazing mobility and lack of assault transports worsens things by limiting how may times they will get a charge off. Just ask the Blood Angels (like me) how useful army wide FC all the time. The anwser is not very.

That is my biggest single issue with the unit. I also think they should get some nice ranged weapon options beyond what the BSS gets.

 

Not especially on topic, but here is the thread for the rewrite of Celestians I did a while back. Link

 

I'd be open to revisiting the subject. If there is interest I will revive the thread.

[CaptainHelion]

Just ask the Blood Angels (like me) how useful army wide FC all the time. The anwser is not very.

Useful, but only because you can; 1) Rely on it 100%. It will be there every charge you make, every turn of every game. 2) You have it on something that's already a decent Strength and Initiative, with widely available force multipliers like Jump-packs, Assault weapons, Power weapons, pistols and CCWs, that sort of thing.

You'll notice that none of that apply to Celestians.

[dracpanzer]

Sadly, they really are the stinker unit of the dex. I would prefer something closer to SM honor guard if they want to maintain Celestians as an assault unit. Personally I would prefer that they were a shooty unit more than that, I wish they combined expanded possibly every turn Acts of Faith with some kind of buff bubble that reflects their veteran status and unshakeable faith.

 

Though I would settle for making them just like a sororitas command squad with reduced weapon costs and perhaps three different AoF to choose from that might help define the character of the squad. Full access to contemptor boltguns would be nice as well. Though I dont necessarily like the idea of them becoming psyker hunters. Perhaps their AoF had three different forms, Heretic, Mutant, Alien.

 

Apart from wishlisting though, the Celestian Unit never has a home in my lists. Maybe with a new dataslate, formation, or codex (Ha!) but not as of now.

[grendal1989]

Well, I guess the pro is that for one of our CC squads they have the appropriate WS to do something when in CC. Now, and here is the kicker that really gets many things, you have to get into combat, and you have to have CC weapons that will do something when stuck-in. First, we have no assault vehicles, though the AoF does lend greatly for movements. With only base weapons for the squad, the superior is the only one that would be doing anything reliable. So for 5 more points than the basic sister squad we do gain quite a bit, but then your taking two base squads as a cost just to get a third slightly better squad, though again for a good price. You also better be taking a power weapon on the superior, making at minimum an 80pt ablative wound sink to get one decently dangerous model into combat. While I sometime run a third sister squad, in general there are too many other things I'm trying to fit in (dominions, exorcists, seraphim, other allies) to afford something like this. When (if) we get access to assault vehicles (or even grenades), these ladies will be brought back to the light. Until then, we are pretty pigeon-holed for usable units.

Since they come with frag and krak, I don't see us getting any more grenades, but I agree they would be better if they had an assault vehicle. Although if we had an assault vehicle I would just take repentia, battle conclave, or even the command squad.

 

I just really struggle to find a place for them in my lists. They really cant compete versus taking a command squad (provided you can since you took a canoness). Command squad is 5 points cheaper (although capped at 5 instead of the 10 the Celestians can go to), has more options, can get a FnP, and is already stubborn.