AM counter for Warlord Titan?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

So, I've recently been put in a unique position, as a friend of mine recently purchased a Warlord Titan. I am really struggling to figure out how I can beat it.

 

All I can think to do is to park a bunch of vanquishers behind a void shield generator and hammer it, or get a shadowsword, and do the same thing. Problem is, he's probably going to end up with a couple more warhounds (he has one) and will be probably the only person in east Tennessee that can field a titanicus force on his own.

 

Now, I know the guy, and he'd never field any of that without his opponent's consent. Still though, I find myself unable to think of viable ways of defeating that behemoth.

 

Help?

[librisrouge]

If you're looking at just pure IG to kill that beast, then you've basically figured it out.

 

Now, also note that you can field a few other things, so long as they can help wittle at the AV12 void shields it will have and regain all the time. Basic battle tanks are good here, as are most man portable heavy weapons (HINT: Avoid heavy bolters and mortars *sarcasm*)

 

Otherwise, you clearly have the time and $$ to own twenty vanquishers, right?

[WarriorFish]

As libris said options are rather limited, but they're effective enough ones. Guard should be able to put out enough standard fire power to strip shields then it's a matter of having your heavy hitters doing the business. Given he'll likely be targeting them accordingly numbers and shields of your own will be essential! Perhaps some sneaky melta Scions to drop in and cause more mischief will be good too?

[CoffeeGrunt]

I was gunna say Vendettas because it can't shoot back at them, then I remembered that the Warlord is AV15. Jesus wept!

 

You're gunna need high-volume S7 fire to strip the Shields, so I'd stock up on Autocannons for days. HWTs and Chimeras to hammer the Shields down. I'd consider grabbing a Medusa, with Bastion Breachers it's the single most-powerful AT gun Guard have. (S10 AP1 Armourbane 48" Small Blast.) That, plus some Vanquishers ought to put the hurt on it. Divination Psykers to give re-rolls to Hit won't go amiss, plus you might get lucky and roll up the 4++ spell which will be a godsend against its firepower.

 

Sadly it's immune to tarpitting so you can't just mob it with Conscripts. The nerf to Grenades also negates slapping it with Demo Vets if you're playing by the Facebook FAQ. If not, your problem then is delivering them up-close. Presumably he'll have support to bubble-wrap and intercept any threats closing into it.

 

Pfffff...I remember a bunch of us at MCM Comicon reading through the book when it had just released trying to work out how to kill it, (we had a meetup for 40K cosplayers, someone hit the Forge World stand for the new book at the time and showed it around.)

 

I'd steer away from Lascannons, too weak. In a nusthell you'll need a list that craps AT. Veterans with Melta, Guardsmen with Melta and Meltabombs. Melta melta armourbane melta. This thing is immune to Haywire and Lance as well IIRC?

 

Screw it, just bring as many Shadowswords as you can, and pray. :P

[Itsacon]

Autocannons and Lascannons to strip the shields, and remember that you can bring 6 shadowswords for the price of one Warlord.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Right, so I need to throw money at it. I need more autocannon teams, and a couple of shadowswords. I plan on getting the Knights Renegade Box, which will give me a second paladin/errant and a warden, which I'll be able to throw at it, their guns should all do the trick at getting through the void shields and maybe stripping off some hull points when the shields are down. Then I charge the knights in, group up and HIT IT 'TIL IT DIES! (SAO abridged anyone?)

 

All the while continuing to hammer at it with Vanquishers (I suppose I'll need more of those too), and Shadow swords (I suppose 3 would do nicely). Or I could just sell my soul and a couple kidneys to get my own Warlord...

 

edit/ Would it be overpowered for vanquishers to have the option to pay for Str D AP2 shells? Say a 20pt upgrade?

[Shamansky]

What is this titan's AV without shields? Can't witche's rending buff help with putting more damage to it? My guys have never seen anything bigger than a bunch of knights. That was a funny tournament with 2 knights armies in a row. One knight was successfully shot down by conscripts' lasguns with the help of witch rending. another was shot down with all 7 infantry autocannons i had including the last hit with quad-gun. and vanquishers were not really impressive.  full plasmacutioners were doing much better. May be quantity could be used better than quality with titans too?

[Itsacon]

The Warlord is AV 15/15/14, with 30 hull points and 6 void shields.

 

It also has a 5++ save, it can't be locked in combat and is immune to haywire and dangerous terrain

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah, Rending Lasguns can't scratch it. In fact, at S3 + D6 + D3, they can only get a maximum of 12, so I'm not sure how you killed a Knight with them either. Rear armour?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Rending would be S3 +D6 +D3, Which totals 12 max. I think you goofed your typing Coffee, because the way you said it, you get 15. It's a moot point though, as neither one are getting through armor to do any real damage to the warlord.

 

Looks like the Shadowsword is still my best bet...

[Shamansky]

Yeah, Rending Lasguns can't scratch it. In fact, at S3 + D6 + D6, they can only get a maximum of 12, so I'm not sure how you killed a Knight with them either. Rear armour?

i thought those metal bastards have AV 13/12/12 so it ws side armour and 100 s3 shots with rending or 150... i don't remember if FRFSRF was used.

[Itsacon]

Massed rending lasguns can take down the void shields though, those are AV 12, IIRC.

[CoffeeGrunt]

It's worth a try, but I wouldn't use it as a core strategy as you're relying on rolling 6s to do it. Not to mention rolling the correct power and getting it off.

[Shamansky]

It's worth a try, but I wouldn't use it as a core strategy as you're relying on rolling 6s to do it. Not to mention rolling the correct power and getting it off.

That was my favourite 'FIRE EVERYTHING!' strategy.

[Itsacon]

I'd house rule it that if you bring all 6 void shields down with just lasguns, the Warlord has to take a blind test, since that's a LOT of flashlights going off in his face :-)

And considering the Warlord is Initiative 1....

[Shamansky]

I wanted there was a homerule that if you bring 5 knights formation with allied eldar and tau scum (which was my opponent's choice of fair play) you get a free strike in a face with a bronze candelabrum

[morroccomole]

No one has mentioned them yet, so I will: maybe it's worth the points to have a squadron of Devil Dogs in reserve, to bop in later when the shields are down and throw some melta templates around? Keep in mind they're Fast, and can also take a hull multimelta.

[CoffeeGrunt]

There'd be no reason for the Warlord Titan to leave its deployment zone though, so holding them in Reserve wouldn't really be necessary.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I'm just wondering how big a table you'd need to really take advantage of the model's rules. A standard 4x6 table almost puts the opponent's DZ within minimum range. It's a huge model. I almost want to say you'd need a 12x8 table. Which is nuts...

 

So massed firepower to bring down the void shields and lots of armourbane, melta, and D weapons to take it down. Looks like I'm going to need to invest in that superheavy company and armoured company, in the cadian formation...

[CoffeeGrunt]

Minimum Range is only for the carapace weapons IIRC.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

So, from what I can find, melta won't work as melta. The Warlord has Armoured Ceremite, which means melta doesn't work. So, forget the Knights Errant, their thermal cannon won't work like it should. Still it's the highest strength ranged weapon that a Codex knight can bring, so It might do some good in penning those shields. The Void shields are still vulnerable to melta right?

 

After the shields are down, it looks like armourbane and D weapons are the only surefire ways. Here's my Idea:

 

Cadian Battlegroup:

 

Command:

Pask in a vanquisher with a Battletank wingman Camo netting on everything

 

Core:

Armoured Company, 2 Vanquishers per squadron, tank commander with kabe's herald, and vanquisher wingman. Camo netting on everything 2 engineseers.

 

Auxiliary:

3 Superheavy support elements, Each a shadowsword with targeters, lascannons and heavy bolter sponsons.

 

IK Houshold Detachment:

2 Paladins or errants and a Warden

 

Fortification detachment:

3 void shield generators, 3 shields each with 6 barricades each.

 

5000 points all up (My friend said he kitted his warlord out to about 5000 points, as I can't find rules for it, I don't know what all he did).

 

The knights will get close to take down the shields, while the vanquishers hammer at the shields from range. The Shadowswords will hammer the Warlord until the knights get in close.

 

My armoured company will sit behind the barricades and get that sweet 3+ Cover and the void shields will give everything some protection.

[librisrouge]

With all of that, you'll be fine. The tanks will take down its void shields in one salvo and then your super heavies will lay into it with three D shots a turn. It won't go down all at once but you'r own void shields should buy you a couple of turns to make it happen in.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

So, I got my hands on the rules for the Warlord, and it'll only top out at around 2900 points. However I know he has knights (I think he has 3). That has the potential to be very problematic.

[Indefragable]

How many points are you playing in total? 2900pts + 3x Knights? Hope you guys took a week off from work to play that game!

 

The way to beat it is to rush out and grab as many objectives as possible so you have an early lead....then take FOREVER to do anything. Make sure you drink gallons of water so you're always in the bathroom and have your significant other call you every 15min......that way "oh gee, look at that, time's up...I guess I win!"

 

I am joking, of course. That'd be a rude thing to do....how well do you know this guy and how badly do you want to beat him? :)

 

Seriously, though. I have found that thinking like a boxer in 40k often helps. There are sluggers and there are dancers. Sluggers want to get in and hit as hard as possible and win through brute strength. Dancers fight like Muhammad Ali: float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

 

I would look at the Warlord Titan as essentially an uber Death Star: how would you win against one? By building your own mega Death star? Or by outmanuevering, out-lasting, and out-smarting them?

 

I don't know the Warlord's stats, but I can bet that anything less than another one will lose going up against it. So rather, don't play that game and swarm him with numerical superiority. You can buy 17+ Vanquishers for 2900pts. Even if the thing has 5 independently tracking D-weapons, he can't kill all those things in less than 3-4 Turns.

 

Or have 50x Special Weapons teams with Meltas for 3000pts :)

[Master Antaeus]

Difficult to say because we don't know what you have. Most players who are at the point where they are playing against a titan have over 2900 points in their armies, but few have the kind of apocalypse-level ordnance necessary to bring down 20 hull points of AV15 that is vomiting large blasts at strength D or worse all over the table.  If your army is not a finely-tuned murder machine, all is not lost.  By mixing and matching your detachments from Elysian, Cadian, standard AM and Militarum Tempestus, you can creatively reserve in order to defeat your opponent on the mission.  No matter how powerful it is, it can only be in one place at a time.  Once you kill his knights, you can spend the rest of the game deep striking minimum size squads onto objectives and strategically dropping them from Valks and Vendettas (which the titan will have a lot of trouble with). 

 

On this assumption, I recommend that you ignore the titan, alpha strike the crap out of his other assets and when they're dead, just write off your alpha strike and let men in boots drop, capture and die to his big, expensive war machine.

 

If you think about it, you win either way.  If you win, you beat a Warlord titan.  If you lose, duh, he had a Warlord titan--of course you lost.  So you've already won, we just need to see to what degree.