helterskelter Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 This is about the sagyar mazan not that box of frogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Well, we are defending the answer provided as to why they didn't just set a trap with a nuke. It's for symbolic purposes, which HeritorA spouted off saying was stupid that people care more about efficiency than symbolism, which was wrong. We are proving him wrong, which reinforces the answer to the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH79 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 While it's been a fair few months since i made my way through this book, but I personally found the final sacrifice of the Sagyar Mazan a thing of beauty and the only way possible for them to redeem themselves not only in the eyes of their Legion but also their own hearts. Their lives were forfeit until death. In the end they fought and died the way all white scars should, butchering traitor filth with a smile on their lips and joy in their hearts. So many great characters from the White Scars lost their lives during the turbulent ride that was Path of Heaven, but none i think had such an honorable end (that he welcomed with open arms) as that of Torghun Khan... one on one against a thrice damned Primarch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 As to Horus making propaganda that says he stomped the Emperor in hand to hand instead of fighting him, it's not the common people he will need to convince, it's the Primarchs that followed him. If he cannot prove his strength to them, their legions won't be an asset for him. Remember, they followed him because he was strong. Eh...Horus only has to show that he could wreck any other primarch in combat  He could easily humble any one of the other primarchs with his Chaos powers  He doesn't need to show that he could stomp the Emp   Though someone mentioned that the Emp has to be psychically destroyed to be fully wiped out While it's been a fair few months since i made my way through this book I personally found the final sacrifice of the Sagyar Mazan a thing of beauty and the only way possible for them to redeem themselves not only in the eyes of their Legion but also their own hearts. Their lives were forfeit until death. In the end they fought and died the way all white scars should, butchering traitor filth with a smile on their lips and joy in their hearts. So many great characters from the White Scars lost their lives during the turbulent ride that was Path of Heaven, but none i think had such an honorable end (that he welcomed with open arms) as that of Torghun Khan... one on one against a thrice damned Primarch! They died laughing...  Torghun's end was very nicely done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Horus offers to let the Emperor live if he agrees to serve him. He says as much again in Nemesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016  As to Horus making propaganda that says he stomped the Emperor in hand to hand instead of fighting him, it's not the common people he will need to convince, it's the Primarchs that followed him. If he cannot prove his strength to them, their legions won't be an asset for him. Remember, they followed him because he was strong. Eh...Horus only has to show that he could wreck any other primarch in combat  He could easily humble any one of the other primarchs with his Chaos powers  He doesn't need to show that he could stomp the Emp   Though someone mentioned that the Emp has to be psychically destroyed to be fully wiped out While it's been a fair few months since i made my way through this book I personally found the final sacrifice of the Sagyar Mazan a thing of beauty and the only way possible for them to redeem themselves not only in the eyes of their Legion but also their own hearts. Their lives were forfeit until death. In the end they fought and died the way all white scars should, butchering traitor filth with a smile on their lips and joy in their hearts. So many great characters from the White Scars lost their lives during the turbulent ride that was Path of Heaven, but none i think had such an honorable end (that he welcomed with open arms) as that of Torghun Khan... one on one against a thrice damned Primarch! They died laughing...  Torghun's end was very nicely done  Indeed! That was one awesome scene that epitomise the character and spirit of WS Legion. Chris has made a masterpiece with that novel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016  As to Horus making propaganda that says he stomped the Emperor in hand to hand instead of fighting him, it's not the common people he will need to convince, it's the Primarchs that followed him. If he cannot prove his strength to them, their legions won't be an asset for him. Remember, they followed him because he was strong.Eh...Horus only has to show that he could wreck any other primarch in combat He could easily humble any one of the other primarchs with his Chaos powers  He doesn't need to show that he could stomp the Emp He felt differently. On top of that, what is a greater accomplishment? Defeating a primarch one on one to show dominance, or defeating the emperor with your "bare" hands?  It is incredibly important that he does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Pretty much. Â Horus can conquor any part of the galaxy he wants, but as long as Terra stands defiant and the Emperor holds the world, humanity will resist him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 My theory is that key characters are both driven by and aware of fate. Â Not fate in the general sense but in the "Forgeworld: Marked by Dark Fates sense", or in the "Keeler Saint" sense or in the "Curze / Sanguinius - Psychic Prescience" sense. Â You could call it plot armor but I feel that there's a basis in that the Warp has a plan. Â Just like how the Primarchs were scattered and ended up where they were. Â If there had been a nuke on the Flagship, I feel like Mortarion would have, at some very base level (in the caveman part of his brain), been aware of it and may not have rushed into teleporting over. Â In other words, I feel like there has got to be some actual significance to bait a Primarch. Â But maybe I'm just talking gibberish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Pretty much. Horus can conquor any part of the galaxy he wants, but as long as Terra stands defiant and the Emperor holds the world, humanity will resist him. And his dialogue implies that the Emperor's very nature requires a psychic destruction. You could nuke him, but his psychic essence will endure somehow, or so he tells Mortarion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016  Pretty much. Horus can conquor any part of the galaxy he wants, but as long as Terra stands defiant and the Emperor holds the world, humanity will resist him. And his dialogue implies that the Emperor's very nature requires a psychic destruction. You could nuke him, but his psychic essence will endure somehow, or so he tells Mortarion   He also seems to labor under this weird delusion that beating up the Emperor means the entire Imperium will shrug its collective shoulders and decide to serve him.  It's a fun little reminder that the primarchs (much like the legions) are, despite being hyper-intelligent demigods, essentially children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 To be fair, if he beats the most powerful "human" in existence, most humans probably would surrender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 As the Khan says, nothing else matters if the Emperor falls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Original lore had it that what he did was a surprise and while many were with him, given enough time the Emperor could bring enough force together to crush him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Gotta pick up this novel. Poor Torghun though. Glad he found found absolution in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I have one thing to add about the circumstances. The Sagyar Mazan were there, begging for a chance to serve again. There's no effort required to get them to the bridge compared to the faff of getting a nuke to the bridge and priming it whilst the faff of getting everyone possible off the ship even as it takes all that punishment from the Endurance and other ships is ongoing. It was far more workable, in that context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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