bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Well, Nix wasn't the one who had a daemon Primarch blow up in his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Well, Nix wasn't the one who had a daemon Primarch blow up in his face. Well I imagine everyone within a sight of Raktra would suffer some effects from his blowing up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I thoufht mire about a brawl where Gwal and Hec attack Raktra ( think of the pic) with Gwal struggles to keep up thx to his wounds. And then is hacked aside. Hec vs rak. Ra. Gets the upper hand. Hec on his knees. attack of the knights. They are like flies. Enough for gwal to recover. He attacks. With wild attacks. Hec rejoins. Noth attack. Gwal jumps on raktras back. Struggle to stay on it. Raktra splits hecs ahield with the grinder, shield of hec shatters, gwal hacks his blade into the neck, raktra gets hold of gwal and throws gwal like a little puppet onto the walls of terra (bone breaking sound) hec uses the diversion to cut raktras swordhand off. Raktra cries out in pain, hitting hec with the stomp. Knights use the opening fir a suicide attack. Then the same as you wrote it out. We have tge glory of a really cool battle scene. Hec has his light. Gwal doesn't look as if he is just there ( he isn't just wounded and off, tat makes no sense as then he shouldn't be evne there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Well, Gwal has already had his own big fight at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Uhm, he left out most of the insurrection. He did not fight primarch after primarch in the campaign. And: sanguinius fought a great battle against Kabanda and he fought against Horus. Would you say ( oh he had his moment....leave him be)? This was a 2 lrimarch vs Daemon Primarch thing. If you want to cut something out, then the Knights errant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I thought Gwal defeated Travier? That's what I was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Thinking Raktra tries to dislodge Khârn and thus the fulgurite with his chain, and Gwal intercepts, stabbing Raktra in the side for good measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 So if he battles one. He won't take part in another? Just as I said: you brought up the raid scene which is really cool and it could very well work using both primarchs especially as geal can't keep up anymore due to his injuries, but he fights on. An act of will but nontheless hectarion stays in the spitlight without having looling gwal as a pointless figure just beeing there so thst the knights errant can shine. Sorry to bring this up, but that they are used to bring raktra back to normal size lets gwal looking a pointless weakling and even hectarion as weakling who can't do something without the knights errant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) It's not that they're weak, it's that they're fighting Khorne's number 2 or 3 in circumstances that are a perfect catalyst for Khorne's power. As for the Knights - the majority of them are going to die. Messily. Think Magnus vs Greyloc and his Wolf Guard Edited September 11, 2016 by bluntblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 But even then 2 primarchs should have at least a chance ( just like in the movie scene 2 against one. Or 1.5 against one) 2 primarchs should do the job or it should be showed that they are the active force here. Having the errants distrsct the daemon okay. Maybe hurting him too okay. But outright ahrinking him makes them superior to the primarchs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) Not shrinking him. Weakening him. Thing is, Raktra at this stage isn't a Primarch, he's a Daemon given all the power that goes with Khorne's favour on top of his gifts as a Primarch. And with the bloodshed on Terra, Khorne's influence is incredibly strong and Raktra feeds off that. It's not any special ability of the Knights that decides the matter anyway, but the weapon they bring into the equation. Edited September 11, 2016 by bluntblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) And it needs the knights errants to beat him. And if your reasoning is right, sanguinius should have had big problems with kabanda on terra, but he overpowered him.(Ka'bandha is a Greater Daemon of the Blood God Khorne, known as a Bloodthirster. Ka'Bandha is recognised as amongst the most powerful and the most feared of the Blood God's servants and he played an important role during the events of the Horus Heresy.) He is not as powerful as I see Raktra, but 2 primarchs should have a chance, even a slight one without having him weakened through shenanigans, when Sanguinius beat one of Khornes most powerful servants singlehandedly. Edited September 11, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir Sigismund229 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) Sanguinius' foresight skews things a bit. And honestly, I was never fond of the way that played out. Raktra, Raktra, where are you? Cos the other point is that this is the culmination of Raktra's conflict with the Shepherds, as his downfall comes partly courtesy of a warrior he always held in contempt, and it comes in a humiliating fashion as the fulgurite's effects allow Gwal and Hec to hack him down (as originally done in my draft, way back). Edited September 11, 2016 by bluntblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Sorry. Make the conflict before or after. Bit this is the siege of terra. The culmination of treachery and family conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 But what else is the conflict between Raktra and his bastards? Sons against a father who scorned them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I'm afraid I agree with Mikhal. This still doesn't sit well with me. It feels more as though Hec, Gwal and Raktra are being used as devices to make the KE shine when the focus should be on the primarchs instead. As to Greyloc vs Magnus: Important point is that Magnus is the only primarch on the field so it's only SW vs Magnus. Here we have Hec and Gwal on the field too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I'm trying to find a middle ground here. Raktra can still deal a vast amount of damage after his wounding - it takes Hec and Gwal to put him down. Maybe he kills Khârn, but the damage is done, and the balance shifts in the favour of the two defenders. For the time being, I'm going to wait for Raktra's input and deal with other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Also guys, we've got time we still like six books now to sort through first before we get to this fight. I'm sure it'll play out perfectly when we get there. Misaimed, but a good point anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Well of course we have some books to cover before thst, but some manor pointa should be clear. I mean if we lay the foundation in the lrevious books we could skip the siege of terra and the loyalists forces just invade madrigal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) To show that not having major fixpoints could lead to another outcome. Or icarion ordered the bears death. The revengetory of rhedd leads him to confront icarion and slay the avatar.of chaos through his burning hatred for him. Edited September 11, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) The exact circumstances of the Knights' intervention can wait for another day. That in itself doesn't interfere with what I'd written for Book 2. Edited September 11, 2016 by bluntblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 About that SoE piece. Is it meant to be a boxed section or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Boxed was what Sim and I agreed on, although that was before Raktra set about devising rules. Now I'm not certain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) Leave it as a boxed section for now. The main focus of book 2 is still the campaigns in the east And as to the fight between Hec, Gwal and Raktra I think we should get the details sorted now. If we leave ot until a later date, it could have knock on effects, be too late to change etc. It's just simpler and easier if we sort any issues we have over it now. Edited September 11, 2016 by Sigismund229 MikhalLeNoir 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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