REF - Book Outlines

[Sigismund229]

Battle Roster for Trilogy 2

 

Book 2A: Battle of Mars

• Loyalist Belligerents: Fire Keepers, Halcyon Wardens, Abysii
•  
• Traitor Belligerents: Traitor Mechanicum
•  
• Outline: Land war. Essentially an invasion and reconquest of Mars by the loyalists.
•  

 

 

Book 2B: Fall of the Comnena Cluster

• Loyalist Beligerents: Fire Keepers, Sisters of Silence
• Insurrectionist Belligerents: Harbingers
• Outline: Multiple battles fought in the Comnena Cluster ending in loyalist defeat. One of the first battles of Icarions initial push out from the Maelstrom

 

Book 2B: Battle of Ysta

• Loyalist Belligerents: Imperial Army, Sheperds of Eden
• Insurrectionist Belligerents: Harbingers, Grave Stalkers, Drowned
• Outline: Void battle. Ambush of reinforcements bound for Comnena by the Harbingers. 

 

Book 2B: Battle of Mirrormere

• Loyalist belligerents: Void Eagles
• Insurrectionist Belligerents: Harbingers
• Ouline: Void battle. Fought when the Void Eagles are sent to stop the Harbinger assault through the Comnena cluster. 

 

Book 2C: Battle of Caelina

• Loyalist Belligerents: Void Eagles
• Insurrectionist Belligerents: Warriors of Peace, Wardens of Light
• Outline: Battle fought on the surface of a Void Eagle's recruitment world as the Void Eagles defend it from an attack by the Warriors of Peace and a wayward force of Wardens of Light. Ends in loyalist defeat and the capture of Void Eagles gene-seed by the Warriors of Peace. 

 

Battle Roster for Trilogy 3

 

Book 3A: Battle of the Forge

• Loyalist Belligerents:Halcyon Wardens, Iron Bears, Imperial Army, Mechanicum
• Insurrection Belligerents: Warbringers, Nova Deka
• Outline: Land battle, urban warfare. Stalingrad esque struggle over a significant forge world. 

 

 

Book 3B: Icarion's Eastern Offensive

• Loyalist Belligerents: Dune Serpents, Void Eagles
• Insurrectionist Belligerents: Steel Legion, Drowned
• Outline: The first assault by Icarion's forces on the eastern worlds held by and used as an operating base by the Dune Serpents. Includes the battle of Hephaesta, an assault by the Steel Legion on a forge world. Ends with Azus' capture by the Steel Legion, the Dune Serpens scattered and the Void Eagles holding on the Eastern worlds by their toe nails.

 

Book 3C: Andezo's counter-attack on the Eastern Fringe

• Loyalist Belligerents: Dune Serpents, Predators
• Insurrectionist Belligerents: Steel Legion, Drowned
• Outline: The Predators counter-attack in the East and free Azus from captivity.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Sigismund229

[simison]

Update: the Fire Keepers have been moved up to 2A. We do have enough material for a Dark Mechanicum faction.

[simison]

Expansion

• Book 2A - Martian Civil War - Factions: Abyssii, Kaban/Dark Mechanicum, Fire Keepers
  
• Book 2B - The Comnena Cluster - Factions: Morning Stars, Void Eagles
  
• Book 2C - Battle of Caelenia - Factions: Shepherds of Eden
  

 

I've added the FK in the new line-up. Were there any other changes?

[bluntblade]

Not for crunch purposes, but I thought there was a notion of expanding the participants in Caelina. Seeing as compared to both Mars and the Commena Cluster, it would come off as very small indeed otherwise.

[bluntblade]

Bumping this. We've altered the makeup of Book 2, will need to detail that in full shortly. However 2B is Harbingers, Fire Keepers, Legio Telesto and House Rakham.

 

2C currently slated as Wardens of Light and Warriors of Peace, potentially along with more Titans and Knights.

[bluntblade]

Update: 2C is now, I believe, the Eagle Warriors moving against Nox. Edited November 1, 2018 by bluntblade

[Doctor Perils]

It has been suggested that rather than writing some big books that also have the rules for the different factions in them, that we should simply get the faction rules in a separate book, in the same way as the Forge World red books. We can then write smaller black books for the battles that tickle our fancy, with only the specific campaign system or missions in them.

 

Several formats for the redbooks have been proposed: two or three spread chronologically (early insurrection, mid, late), two or three spread over loyalties, multiples (one for each faction)...

 

What do you guys think ? For the new system, and what flavour thereof?

[MikhalLeNoir]

Not a fan of this approach.

 

While I am a fan of smaller books, I am not a fan of getting all rules out at once.

 

Having rules bound to minibook makes it more tied to the campaign.

 

Having the whole rules at once is to me an overload, having smaller parts, tied to the campaigns are a) easier to digest, b) to test out and c) it gives more reason to read campaigns written by fans for a fan project. It helps to connect more to the legions if they are alowly introduced and directly tied to campaigns and missions.

 

To me this is way more appealing.

 

But don't get me wrong: multiple smaller books as one big book cutting down redundant elements is a thing I absolutely support. I just want to keep the fw style and maybe at the end release a big red book or at halftime.

[bluntblade]

What do we think are redundant elements to the Black Books?

[Kelborn]

I agree that a single rulebook would be too much and I, too, would prefer the typical Forge World style.

 

FW did this after releasing about 4 or 5 books.

 

What would a "smaller" book look like?

 

1-2 factions + one campaign? Two campaigns? Like our 2a, b, c schedule?

 

How would they differ from a regular one?

[simison]

Here is the alternate system I propose. 

 

We divide faction fluff/crunch into the red books, while the black books would feature the campaigns fluff/crunch. 

 

We would begin with, at minimum, 2 red books, featuring the Loyalist and the Traitor Legions. As mentioned, they would feature the fluff in the first half and the rules in the second half. This initial release of red books would allow us to establish the very foundation of BotL that started this project: the Legions. No Daemons, no Suzerainty hybrid marines, it would feature a snapshot of the Legions as they were at the twilight of the Great Crusade. 

 

From this initial publication, we would begin to churn out black books. No longer wrestling with trying to figure out where to place this Legion where or when to introduce this faction here, we simply create the black books with the complete freedom of showcasing the faction appropriate to the campaign. We use the black books to move the story forward, just as FW does, but with a lot less emphasis on campaign rules. 

 

Simply put, I don't think FW has left much ground to cover other than highly individualised campaigns and ideas for aquatic combat. 

 

Since we are no longer in a rush to move from book to book to introduce each of our Legions, this also relaxes our publication strictures. For example, even though every Legion is ambushed on the DoR, we only had room to fit in three such ambushed before we needed to hurry on to introduce the rest of the BotL Legiones Astartes. 

 

Then, once we have enough black books done to move the timeline up to a certain point, we introduce more red books. For the Mechanicum Civil War, we might have a BotL Mechanicum red book (or mini-book) to cover the Abyssii. After the Blood Crusade, we would have another big red book to introduce the Traitor Daemon Legions, for another example.

 

But the general premise is that we establish the rules and foundation for each faction and then write a black book that showcases them, reversing FW's order of campaign then faction on a macro scale.

 

With this new freedom, writers could also indulge in side projects, such as Iyracrax or other DoR battles, in addition to keeping the timeline moving forward. 

 

My two big questions with this alternate system is do we want to establish a minimum size to make a new red book? And, how many black books between red books?

 

To answer the latter question, I came up with a tiered system for black books.

 

Tier 1 - BotL's signature events (The DoR, the First Solar War, the Blood Crusade, etc) -  These are the events that typically will potentially trigger a red book

 

Tier 2 - The Spotlights - Every faction deserves one campaign that shows them being successful and to prove their capability. 

 

Tier 3 - The Indulgences - This is Iyracrax, the Conquest of Macragge, battles that may tickle a writer's fancy and add to the setting but may slow down the project. Unlike the other tiers, these books are completely optional and are up to personal effort to bring them forth into reality. They also may or may not feature campaign rules. 

 

All of this rambling is the basic idea I have right now. I am highly in favor of this system because it would allow us to debut the most meaty portion of our project first and then allow us to woo new people with the campaigns and avoids the headache of trying to figure out if faction X should show up in Book 3A or Book 9B. 

[Chief Captain Redd]

I support this new idea.

[Doctor Perils]

Going from Simison's idea, my suggestion is to release a red "booklet" per faction, as soon as each one is ready - this would mean a faster release cycle, which could start much sooner than if we had to finalise all the legions before moving on to the next stage.

 

We'd then be able to aim at a new release every two or three months starting I January

[simison]

To give a vague recap of today, people seem to be in favor of the new red book - black book divide. Redd, Nomus, Grifft, Skal, and Beren have all voiced their support for the new plan. Kel and Mikhal have expressed reservations. Blunt just wants to indulge his writing, which he can do with the new system. 

 

Between Thorn's rapid fire publishing rate and my emphasis on getting a strong foundation established first, Grifft and Beren preferred my plan with no one else noting an opinion. 

 

I'll wait one more day for discussion then make a decision. 

[Kelborn]

Wasn't able to rejoin the discussion, yesterday.

 

Will catch up when I'm back at work.

 

Right now, I fear that we'll loose the overview or rather a guiding threat throughout these kind of releases.

 

What is more important: Releasing Legion stuff or presenting the setting?

 

I mean, GW first introduced the chapters and then the HH in order to release their Titan game.

 

What catches people? To see the work on Legions, which was mostly done by a few or the setting, done by the entire team?

 

I agree that a regular black book can be overwhelming - heck, I got Inferno at home, the one I have been truly waiting for and still haven't read it completely - but imho I believe a black/red combined minibook might be a good compromise. Feeding with Legions & rules + presenting the setting step by step.

 

In the end, I'm not sure if one would want to dive into the setting when he got his favorite Legion's rules to play with as a Lost Legion in canon based games.

 

Still, it's not THE HH. It's a fan project, unknown to most. We need something to get them by the balls. A setting/ legion release might be more impressive/ interesting than the proposed version. It feels like a "regular" WIP release like the very first thread of yours and not like a more serious project with investments, commissioned artworks and so on.

 

Just my two cents for now. As I said, I will catch up and see what happens. :)

Edited November 13, 2018 by Kelborn

[Chief Captain Redd]

I know this sounds like a lot, but if our first release was a legion redbook, a DoR mini black book, and a short story collection. It would be our best bet in terms of impact. You'd get a great introduction to the new setting with the DoR minibook as well as scenarios to play. You'd have the introduction to all Legions and the ability to play a proper game asap with the redbook. And depth of character with the stories.

But we also have a large chunk of that work done.

[simison]

 

Right now, I fear that we'll loose the overview or rather a guiding threat throughout these kind of releases.

 

What is more important: Releasing Legion stuff or presenting the setting?

 

I agree that a regular black book can be overwhelming - heck, I got Inferno at home, the one I have been truly waiting for and still haven't read it completely - but imho I believe a black/red combined minibook might be a good compromise. Feeding with Legions & rules + presenting the setting step by step.

 

In the end, I'm not sure if one would want to dive into the setting when he got his favorite Legion's rules to play with as a Lost Legion in canon based games.

 

Still, it's not THE HH. It's a fan project, unknown to most. We need something to get them by the balls. A setting/ legion release might be more impressive/ interesting than the proposed version. It feels like a "regular" WIP release like the very first thread of yours and not like a more serious project with investments, commissioned artworks and so on.

 

Just my two cents for now. As I said, I will catch up and see what happens.

 

The big problem with the current structure is the pain of trying to match faction release with the right campaign. Every step forward brings more questions with it, more replanning, and more frustration. It forces us to limit ourselves on what fluff we write because we're so busy trying to hurry through the mini-books to introduce everybody. 

 

I can understand the point you are making that we need to simultaneously introduce our factions while we give them the chance to shine. However, if we introduce the base factions from the get-go, we are free from that struggle and can concentrate more on simply writing good stuff. 

 

If it helps, we could take Book 1 and easily make a black book out of the initial setting placement and pair it with our first red book. 

 

Redd also has made his suggestion that we had stories that are ready to go to further hone that first impact. 

[bluntblade]

Another question is this: how do we want to deal with Titan Legions, Knight Houses and regiments?

[Beren]

That would go in the 'other' red book I presume. Unless we end up doing the mini red books.

[simison]

That would go in the 'other' red book I presume. Unless we end up doing the mini red books.

 

Correct, on both accounts. Homebrew Regiments, Legios, and Houses would be given their own Red Book. Either packaged as a group or sent out on their own in mini-Reds.

 

As mentioned on Discord, the current count is thus:

Sim's Plan - 3 votes (Beren, Grifft, Nomus)

Thorn's Plan - 4 votes (Kelborn, Mikhal, Redd, Blind)

Neutral - 2 votes (Talon, Blunt)

 

I'll go ahead and sketch an initial outline for both plans.

 

Thorn's (Assuming 4-month intervals; can speed up or slow down as necessary)

• January 1st 2019 - Harbingers - Red Book
• May 1st 2019 -  Halcyon Wardens - Red Book
• September 1st 2019 - Iron Bears - Red Book
• January 1st 2020 - Grave Stalkers - Red Book
• (Note: this order can be changed as needed)

 

Mine 

• Insurrection - Black Book - Contains Introduction, Prosecution, Ally Matrix & other Generic Rules
• Traitor Legions - Red Book containing all of the Traitors (To be released alongside Insurrection)
• Loyalist Legions - Red Book
• [Other] - Red Book - Contains Wardens of Light, Shepherds of Eden, the Morning Stars, Mechanicum Abyssii, & the Nightguard

Edited November 14, 2018 by simison

[bluntblade]

Working titles for the other books: Banners of the Warmaster and Swords of Insurrection.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Why not stsrt with the general blackbook as introduction and then dive into the mini books?

 

It would be like the start of a new edition of w40k. This is our corebook and from there we expand

Edited November 14, 2018 by MikhalLeNoir

[Kelborn]

And we already got most of that stuff done thanks to our work on Insurrection.

 

Such an introduction paired with some short stories like Redd suggested and we got a solid start to work with.

 

Afterwards, we can release both Halcyon Wardens and Harbringers as lead codices to dive into the setting, formats etc.

[simison]

With 4 votes, deadlines and small releases win. 

 

This is what I propose for the 2019 releases:

 

• January 1st 2019 - Insurrection - Black Book - Contains Introduction, Prosecution, Ally Matrix & other Generic Rules
• May 1st 2019 -  Harbingers - Red Book
• September 1st 2019 - Halcyon Wardens - Red Book

 

Now, I'd suggest this isn't set in stone. For this first year, we're talking it easy to make sure we can regularly hit our deadlines (which is extremely important in building up reputation). However, if we can a year ahead in our production plan, I'm open to either doubling releases on a publishing date or adding more publishing dates. 

 

To give an example, the next Red I'd like to see is:

• January 1st 2020 - Grave Stalkers - Red

So, if we finished all 4 of these books before the Jan. 2019 release date, we would bump up the Harbingers to be released on that day as well.

 

Other than that, I still want to go with the overall plan I suggested earlier. We publish Insurrection first, then we go through all of the major factions at the end of the Great Crusade before we move into the campaigns proper. 

 

Comments, suggestions, complaints?

[Beren]

I'll get the ones form the Monthly Fluff challenge later. Some of these are longer than others and many link to specific Legions. Some that I think could fit well in the initial release are the Dinner, The Great Games, Prospero, Scientific Projects and Baal( the latter two relate to the Vizenko prosecution).

 

Pre-Insurrection stories not listed in the beginning of the Stories Thread:

 

The Two Brothers: First Meeting between Icarion and Alexandros, I believe that this is covered in the Second Son though.- http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4512615

 

Dragon Hunting:Amicable discussion between Dae'rrd, Alexandros, Pionus abd Hectarion - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4532774

 

Apostle:Apostles of War vs Orks -http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4530286

 

A Strange Knight: A shory piece where the Sheperds of Eden show up- http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4544659

 

Echo: Very brief, Raktra's initial encounter wuth Nomus, needs removal of the term 'Scorpion' in reference to the SL Canonicity in doubt - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4555529

 

Of Bears and Predators: Nibaasiniwi's recounting of operating alongside the Predators. The Jackals are mentioned, but I'm not sure whether or not this is referring to our redacted Legion or not. - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4557977

 

Scientific Projects: Pionus and Alexandros receive news of Vizenko's crimes midway through a discussion aboit scientific projects. - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4574351

 

The Surgeon: Short piece, Riktus recieves word of Prospero - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4574722

 

Ascension: A Grave Stalker becomes a Reaper- http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4584671

 

Taskmaster: A mortal witnesses the Warriors of Peace training - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4589335

 

unamed: Warriors of Peace plan for an upcoming invasion - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4636058

 

Beneath the surface: Alexandros speaks with the Emperor - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4653770

 

Flesh and Steel: A Magos' observation's on the Steel Legion - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4684641

 

Foundling- Andezo's discovery by his adoptive tribe - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-5?do=findComment&comment=4743561

 

The Warmaster's Work: Halycon Wardens, Steel Legion, Godslayers, Shepherds of Eden and Knight house Zivich conquer a Knight World. - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-5?do=findComment&comment=4816219

 

All Approaches Covered- Niklaas calls upon the advance of theLightning Bearer Muniza in fortifying the Sol System - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-5?do=findComment&comment=4869430

 

 

Fraught: A longer piece, Iron Bears, Lightning Bearers, Bezerkers if Uran destroy a rebellion by one of Icarion's former allies. Hints at the beginning of his fall. - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-5?do=findComment&comment=4893178

 

The Second Shame: Alexandros reacts to Socraes' discovery. - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-5?do=findComment&comment=4900364

 

A Line Drawn: Scions Hospitalier punish the XXth for their bloodthirsty actions - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-5?do=findComment&comment=4924485

 

Happiness is...: A Halycon Warden neets his Primarch - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-5?do=findComment&comment=4980903

 

Drowned Men: A cadre of the 16th ready for battle against the Quarith. - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-5?do=findComment&comment=5023097

 

Warsong: Iron Bears compliance - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-5?do=findComment&comment=5036300

 

Baal: Iron Bears rememberancer is sent to the Vizenko Prosecution - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-5?do=findComment&comment=5085541

 

Of Champions and Training Cage Floors: Odyssylas and Famon Redd spar - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-ref-tale-the-stories/page-5?do=findComment&comment=5107489

Edited November 14, 2018 by Beren