Another Sisters Codex Re-Write (Major Update - See OP)

[Servant of Dante]

I really shouldn't take the time to reply right now . . . I have stuff I should be doing . . .

 

Quick answers: Famulus is as seen in The 3E White Dwarf dex (kinda). The pronatus care fire dangerous relics, well, I have a bit of a co-author for this codex (even if I'm doing all the writing) :) we went back and forth about the Pronatus for the better part of a day, and this is where we landed. It is a representation of them as Radicals (BURN THEM!) doing radical stuff, albeit probably more carefully than a Radical Inquisitor. At least, the idea is that the upper ranks of an order Pronatus might have . . . Eclectic interests. You'll notice I stayed away from anything outright Daemonic, settling for Epherel Stern's book (she's the Daemonifuge, if you aren't aware)

[Servant of Dante]

 

...you're always going to get the ++ while you're only going to sometimes get the FNP...

But in case armour or cover applies the ++ is useless.

 

I'm not a fan of Sistes on Bikes either, but I have to say it's a matter of taste, rather than having a solid reason to it.

 

Now about the Pronatus' so called "relics", I'd think using Xeno Tech should be left to the radical Inquisitors! As special as the Pronatus may be among the Sororitas, they're still Sororitas. Also Relics, as I see it, should be fancy old equipment, the Imperium is no longer capable of producing, or once regular equipment now dripping with awesome, due to the deeds done by previous wielders.

 

As for the Famulous, I see how you got there, but it strikes me as a bit impractical in actual use. An idea for the Famulous, that has been floating around in my head for a while, was rolling on a table for impovemnts on the equipment of one of the Fratris Militia units (better aim, armour, etc.) kind of similar to those inquisitional orange furry things.

 

but I like the idea of calling in a favor and getting IG troops . . . 

 

And concerning the Palatine, will there be anything to that entry other than being a cheaper version of the Canoness?

 

the Palatine entry is there basically so that you can have someone of lower rank in the Sororitas that a Canoness lead your army. I don't know that it would be fluffy to have her have access to additional equipment or rules, since she is the same kind of Sister as a Canoness (no different in training and so on) but lower rank and less experienced.

 

[Servant of Dante]

First complete fraft in OP. I'm sure there's typos, and I'm not sure about all the point costs. Feel free to comment on anything.

[CaptainMarsh]

I think it looks great. I had two things I always wanted to add to Sisters: All Celestians start with combi-flamers, which can be exchanged for other combi-weapons. This would give you a lot of options and make them more flexible, especially if you went the Sternguard route and gave them special ammunition (which I would change a bit for them). The second is a missile launcher option for Rets, with a specialized munition you buy that gives range 48 armourbane- basically a full range meltamissile. 

For Battle Sisters, I always liked the idea of: For every five models, one model may take a Special Weapon, and one other model may take a Special Weapon or Heavy Weapon. That way at 10 models you could have 2/2 or 4/0. And at 20 you could have 4/4 or even 8/0. Charge that wall of flamers, Orks. Charge it.

[Isolia]

I think it looks great. I had two things I always wanted to add to Sisters: All Celestians start with combi-flamers, which can be exchanged for other combi-weapons. This would give you a lot of options and make them more flexible, especially if you went the Sternguard route and gave them special ammunition (which I would change a bit for them). The second is a missile launcher option for Rets, with a specialized munition you buy that gives range 48 armourbane- basically a full range meltamissile.

 

For Battle Sisters, I always liked the idea of: For every five models, one model may take a Special Weapon, and one other model may take a Special Weapon or Heavy Weapon. That way at 10 models you could have 2/2 or 4/0. And at 20 you could have 4/4 or even 8/0. Charge that wall of flamers, Orks. Charge it.

Wasn't there something similar for the special weapons count in one of the older codices ?

 

I second the missile idea , it would also give us one antiair option :)

[CaptainMarsh]

I think it looks great. I had two things I always wanted to add to Sisters: All Celestians start with combi-flamers, which can be exchanged for other combi-weapons. This would give you a lot of options and make them more flexible, especially if you went the Sternguard route and gave them special ammunition (which I would change a bit for them). The second is a missile launcher option for Rets, with a specialized munition you buy that gives range 48 armourbane- basically a full range meltamissile.

For Battle Sisters, I always liked the idea of: For every five models, one model may take a Special Weapon, and one other model may take a Special Weapon or Heavy Weapon. That way at 10 models you could have 2/2 or 4/0. And at 20 you could have 4/4 or even 8/0. Charge that wall of flamers, Orks. Charge it.

Wasn't there something similar for the special weapons count in one of the older codices ?

I second the missile idea , it would also give us one antiair option

Yeah, a Missile Launcher with Frag, Krak, +Flakk, +Anti-Armor Missile (Call it the Melta Missile or some such), lots of options. Also makes Rets a bit more of an attractive option.

Sisters Missile Launcher(Name pending haha):

Normal Frag, normal Krak, and normal Flakk (including point upgrade cost)

+ ?? Points for Melta Missile- 48, S-8, AP-1, Heavy 1, Armourbane(The idea being that the melta core of the missile is surged through the penetrator at contact, so it doesn't suffer from the normal half range requirement of a Melta special rule)

As for the special weapon count, I don't remember off of the top of my head.

Sarissa- I like it a lot, but I might change it. Only being used during the charge makes it a bit less attractive.

[Grgobart]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for adding another weapon choice or two, to the Sisters' wargear, but I think one should be careful not to completely render other choices useless in the process. Which is exactly what I think a Melta-warhead firing rocket launcher would do to the good old Multi-Melta, even without the added bonus of being more versatile due to alternate ammunitions. And speaking of alternate ammunitions, if you're creating a Sororitas specific rocket launcher, surely the first thing that should come to mind, is replacing the frag warhead with an incendiary one!

Personally I found the idea of a heavy grenade launcher more appealing than a rocket launcher for the Sisters. Granted the rocket laucher provides a handy spot for craming in some AA-option, but I think a 36 inch range heavy grenade launcher fits better with the rest of the overall wargear choices and character of the Sisters. And with a more regular sized Sorotias pattern grenade launcher, you'd also get a corresponding Special Weapon out of it!

Auto-winning no-brainer options may seem tempting at first, but I think in the long run, they'll end up draining the fun out of having to make proper choices in your army building process.

[CaptainMarsh]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for adding another weapon choice or two, to the Sisters' wargear, but I think one should be careful not to completely render other choices useless in the process. Which is exactly what I think a Melta-warhead firing rocket launcher would do to the good old Multi-Melta, even without the added bonus of being more versatile due to alternate ammunitions. And speaking of alternate ammunitions, if you're creating a Sororitas specific rocket launcher, surely the first thing that should come to mind, is replacing the frag warhead with an incendiary one!

Personally I found the idea of a heavy grenade launcher more appealing than a rocket launcher for the Sisters. Granted the rocket laucher provides a handy spot for craming in some AA-option, but I think a 36 inch range heavy grenade launcher fits better with the rest of the overall wargear choices and character of the Sisters. And with a more regular sized Sorotias pattern grenade launcher, you'd also get a corresponding Special Weapon out of it!

Auto-winning no-brainer options may seem tempting at first, but I think in the long run, they'll end up draining the fun out of having to make proper choices in your army building process.

Cost may be the mitigating factor. Missile Launcher could be more expensive, and not even without adding in the additional cost of the specialty missile. Of course I also do like the idea of a specialized grenade launcher.

[CaptainHelion]

Also, important to consider the "Why would you ever (not) take it?" factor. With the melta missile, why would you ever not use it over a regular krak missile? Better ap (enough to both take out terminators and explode vehicles semi reliably), same strength, and armourbane on top.

So why would you not take them? Cost, obviously, is a good limiting factor. Maybe they have a shorter range? A One-Use weapon?

[CaptainMarsh]

Also, important to consider the "Why would you ever (not) take it?" factor. With the melta missile, why would you ever not use it over a regular krak missile? Better ap (enough to both take out terminators and explode vehicles semi reliably), same strength, and armourbane on top.

So why would you not take them? Cost, obviously, is a good limiting factor. Maybe they have a shorter range? A One-Use weapon?

Say the Melta Missile costs an additional ten.

But if we wanted to really own this ML and make this Sisterly, how about this:

Anti-Infantry Munition: Incendiary Missile. A 48/4/5 blast weapon with the properties of a template/flamer. Two Sisters may choose to fire at the same target, and if so, maybe it becomes a 5/4 or gets Shred alongside what it already has? This would represent part of the Holy Trinity and seems to fit better than maybe the normal ML does. A missile comes in and turns into a gnarly mess of napalm and whatnot. And when multiple missiles are aimed, fired, and impacted in unison, it becomes more terrifying. Ret squads can turn enemy platoons into ash fused with bleach white bones at great distance.

 

Krak remains.

 

Then you get one of two options. You pay for each. You can't take both.

Anti-Armor Munition: The Melta Missile as discussed. I wouldn't make it One Use Only, but also reduce the range to 36'. This can be explained as the Melta eventually chewing through the missile after firing, causing it to not function past that range. Maybe even give it a minimum arming time (as a safety measure)?

Anti-Air Munition: Flak, or something similar. What would be a twist?

 

So you use the Incendiary Munition when you are facing scores of lightly armored infantry and Krak against heavier infantry. You don't buy the Melta missile unless you think you will need rather specific anti-vehicle weaponry. If you do, it rocks. Otherwise the superior range and cost of Krak is a nice benefit.

 

 

[Isolia]

How about a third unique option for the ML warhead, something like Iron Curtain : heavy bolter stats (or something close) with 2D6 rounds when it hits, a pieplate is used for deviation and cover determination but it is the unit that is hit. Then, we roll 1D3 (or maybe just on doubles?) to determine how many hits have to be allocated to the same model.

It's not the same use as the flame or frag warhead, more elite oriented , and with a lucky 12 shots you can still get 1 hit per model, which means the opponent can mitigate wounds, or you can get a compulsory 3 hits per model which is deadlier to the victims but less widespread.

 

These are just ideas that popped in my mind and not very much thought through but I was thinking that real missiles (especially AA warheads in SAMs) often have a multiple projectile warhead (a directional fragmentation if you will) and that would complete the holy trinity well

[Drider]

a missile that's actually a 48'' range torrent flamer? a s8 ap1 armour bane missile? 

 

This is just broken OP. why would you ever take anything else? (and the Exorcist has turned green with envy.)

[Servant of Dante]

I kinda skimmed (I dropped right off the forum this week and I'm easing myself back in). I apologize for the late reply.

 

The combi weapons for the celestians could be a thing. Especially since BSSs can upgrade to veterans it would make them more unique

 

I'm going to go with no on the missile launchers for one reason: they are not part of the Holy Trinity.

 

Yes, characters can take plasma pistols and priests can take plasma guns but those are the ONLY exceptions, and they are grandfathered in at that.

 

Anti-air IS an issue I failed to address. Do you think maybe some kind of skyfire heavy bolter ammo would work (that weapon is kinda meh as is anyway) or maybe a skyfire Act of Faith for Retributors?

[Isolia]

The problem with heavy bolters is that they are a tad weak to address antiair: anything with AV 11 is glanced on a six, and that's it.

 

That being said, Avenger and Vulcan type bolters are stronger but usually on vehicle chassis. We kind of have access to Avenger patterns due to the namesake Strike Fighter that we can field so it's not a big stretch, maybe as a 2-person heavy weapon as in the guard we could have a more mobile version, or mounted on an immolator/exorcist in place of the main weapon ?

 

Or a skyfire multi melta, but that would also draw some opposition I guess

[Servant of Dante]

The multi melta has always been portrayed as an unwieldy weapon. I'm also against giving factions better versions of established weapons just because. Like how the Deathwatch get heavy bolsters that are also heavy flamers for no discernible reason. Ticks me off.

 

I think an AoF might be a clean option, but I actually don't know the Avenger bolter thing's stats. We have to keep in mind that as a HS choice it would compete with the Exorcist for force org slots, but if you just take a unit of them instead of Retributors you should be fine.

 

Edit: is the weapon's name the Avenger Autocannon? Because autocannons are not bolt weapons, and so fall under the same prohibition as missile launchers in my mind. Yes, I give the plasma weapons and stake crossbows a bye because they are cool.

[Isolia]

I think it's the Avenger Bolt Cannon that is on the strike fighter,usual HB range S6 AP3 heavy 7 . It is a bolt weapon.

(Similar stats to a knight avenger gatling cannon but less shots , and the latter is not a bolt weapon)

 

The Avenger mega bolter is ap4 heavy 5 instead, I think it's on another flyer or tank

[Teetengee]

Yeah, avenger bolt cannon on a flyer would work.

Alternatively, some sort of exorcist style thing that fires flak missiles. (Heavy D6 S 7 AP 4 Skyfire, 36-48" range)

[Servant of Dante]

Yeah, avenger bolt cannon on a flyer would work.

 

Alternatively, some sort of exorcist style thing that fires flak missiles. (Heavy D6 S 7 AP 4 Skyfire, 36-48" range)

or, give Exorcists an upgrade that gives them anti-air ammunition (they would get to choose what kind of missiles to fire each turn).

 

I really like that idea. I think it's a simple fix that fits the fluff more or less. I mean, the Exorcist already shoots straight up.

[Grgobart]

I'm going to go with no on the missile launchers for one reason: they are not part of the Holy Trinity.

Why? Because Sisters never use anything outside the Holy Trinity, like the Frag and Krak grenades a missile launcher fires?

As I mentioned earlier, I'm not too keen on missile launchers either, but that reasoning is a bit weak. Just say you don't want to add them, it's a much more valid reason, it's your codex after all!

And besides, if going by the suggestion of replacing the frag with incendiary ammunition, how would that not count as a flamer weapon?

Yes, characters can take plasma pistols and priests can take plasma guns but those are the ONLY exceptions, and they are grandfathered in at that.

Again, this is my least favored option concerning plasma weapons, but the resoning is solid if simple!

As for the Exorcist AA capabilities, I'd prefer a built in option rather than an upgrade, no different missle stats either, just reduce the shots to D3 for Skyfiring if neccessary. The Exorcist has always been a jack of all trades kind of option and for an army with no own Flyers (and including some random Navy Flyers into our lineup is not my preferred solution to that), I find it only fair, we'll get a ground based AA option that't not rendered completely useless, in case the enemy doesn't have no Flyers to shoot at!

[Isolia]

I like that , D6 shots to ground or D3 to the sky, seems decent and covers the added difficulty of shooting aircraft (or they could buy some Aster 30 missiles but I doubt they are still in production in M41 ;) )

[Servant of Dante]

I'm going to go with no on the missile launchers for one reason: they are not part of the Holy Trinity.

Why? Because Sisters never use anything outside the Holy Trinity, like the Frag and Krak grenades a missile launcher fires?

As I mentioned earlier, I'm not too keen on missile launchers either, but that reasoning is a bit weak. Just say you don't want to add them, it's a much more valid reason, it's your codex after all!

And besides, if going by the suggestion of replacing the frag with incendiary ammunition, how would that not count as a flamer weapon?

Yes, characters can take plasma pistols and priests can take plasma guns but those are the ONLY exceptions, and they are grandfathered in at that.

Again, this is my least favored option concerning plasma weapons, but the resoning is solid if simple!

As for the Exorcist AA capabilities, I'd prefer a built in option rather than an upgrade, no different missle stats either, just reduce the shots to D3 for Skyfiring if neccessary. The Exorcist has always been a jack of all trades kind of option and for an army with no own Flyers (and including some random Navy Flyers into our lineup is not my preferred solution to that), I find it only fair, we'll get a ground based AA option that't not rendered completely useless, in case the enemy doesn't have no Flyers to shoot at!

I don't want to add missile launchers because they are a weapon a person caries as a primary weapon that is not part of the holy trinity. Missile Launchers fire frag and krak missiles, not frag and krak grenades. The grenades are so ubiquitus I'm ok with them, but a missile launcher is a specialist (well, heavy) weapon. So yeah, I'm not going to because I don't want to, but the Holy Trinity is the reason I don't want to. I get that there are other exceptions, but the Sisters on;y have the Trinity in their special and heavy weapons lists, and I want to keep it that way. And even if you shoehorn the missile launcher into kinda a flame weapon . . . I still don't want to. That also starts to add random "upgraded" versions of standard Imperium equipment, and I've already mentioned I don't like that (I'm looking at you Deathwatch).

The reason I sugested an upgrade was so that I wouldn't have to raise the unit's point cost, but the D3 shots probably don't necessarily require a point cost hike.

[A.T.]

The an existing Imperial weapon there is the 'thermogenic grenade launcher' (as seen on Captain Dudley's combi-power fist).

 

18" range, S8, AP1, Assault 1 (for a terminator), Armourbane, Blast

 

The description of the weapon states that it fires a cluster of miniaturised melta charges.

[Servant of Dante]

The an existing Imperial weapon there is the 'thermogenic grenade launcher' (as seen on Captain Dudley's combi-power fist).

 

18" range, S8, AP1, Assault 1 (for a terminator), Armourbane, Blast

 

The description of the weapon states that it fires a cluster of miniaturised melta charges.

Might work as an extra combi-weapon option . . . and I have no idea who Captain Dudley is.

[A.T.]

Might work as an extra combi-weapon option . . . and I have no idea who Captain Dudley is.

 

The current limited edition terminator captain - available at store openings (a new store in Dudley in this case).

He can replace a single terminator captain in a space marine army for no points cost and has a stormbolter, power sword, and power fist with a one shot thermogenic grenade launcher (plus all the usual gear and rules).

[CaptainHelion]

This is about as good a picture as I could find.