LOC - The Suzerainty

[bluntblade]

 

 

I would like to see a similar aesthetic elsewhere though. Dornian Heresy had its own marks, after all.

Oh, I'm all for giving the Suzerainty its own armour mark - you are right in that it should have its own aesthetic in order to differentiate it from the Imperium.

 

However, I don't think the "Utilitarian" aspect of those examples fit with how the Suzerainty feels in my head. Of course, the Suzerainty isn't my brain child, so my opinion's won't have as much weight as other members X)

I fully agree with you, as it happens.

[Skalpynock]

Ah, yeah, there's that thing with the Nomad war in the Imperium. So I retract my idea.

 

I've made extensive sketches for Mark [8?7?] Nikanor power armor built for the Genesis Legion, which has a very utilitarian look inspired by the Dornian Heresy Ultramarines and Mark IV. Will post them later today. I see how that might clash with some mental images of the Suzerainty, but I'll try to explain my reasoning. First off, relying on older armour marks and heavily decorating them was a decision taken by Kozja. By the time of the War of the False Primarch, he's been dead for about half a millennium, and the Suzerainty has been led by the far less sentimental Jade General. Second, it may have been initially caused by the Suzerainty's lack of sufficient forge worlds, and embargo on Imperial stuff. But their empire has expanded since then, and they are now in capacity to create a new Power Armour pattern without having to bargain the STC from Mars-aligned forges. Third, the Genesis Legion are a new creation, not the successors of previous Astartes. They don't even consider themselves Space Marines. Similarly, the Nikanor suits are a new beginning, armours without history behind them. They are not influenced by Strelian or Jin cultures, only by the necessities of the General, the Newborn, and the Suzerainty.

[bluntblade]

So Skal, in your plans is FP still after Kozja has himself interred?

[Skalpynock]

So Skal, in your plans is FP still after Kozja has himself interred?

Yup. Kozja's the failed self-implanted prototype.

[~Drakzilla~]

@Skalpynock: I agree with all your points there.

 

Another thing to consider is that by the Suzerainty is built upon the ideal of technological and scientific advancement, beyond that of the stagnant Imperium. This effectively makes it a very attractive "third option" for radical Mechanicum elements. I mean, if you were a rogue magos, would you rather become a full-on heretek and be hounded by the imperium, living amongst scavengers and evil beings who are likely to backstab you, or would you want to be taken in by a fully functioning empire with that will accomodate and encourage your beliefs, as well as giving you asylum and the protection of an army?

 

Which is why, by the founding of the Genesis Legion and the war of the False Primarch, it makes no sense for them to be technologically inferior to the Imperium. They would likely have the production capability and mechanical expertise of many forgeworlds. They would have been making many advancements, and that includes the field of armor design. The only caveat is that they would likely have less raw resources to support these innovations; all the more reason to have a stripped down, utilitarian look. Basically they need to be efficient with what they have.

 

tl;dr, Suzerainty would have better tech(likely experimental), but not as many resources to call on.

[Sigismund229]

@Skalpynock: I agree with all your points there.

 

Another thing to consider is that by the Suzerainty is built upon the ideal of technological and scientific advancement, beyond that of the stagnant Imperium. This effectively makes it a very attractive "third option" for radical Mechanicum elements. I mean, if you were a rogue magos, would you rather become a full-on heretek and be hounded by the imperium, living amongst scavengers and evil beings who are likely to backstab you, or would you want to be taken in by a fully functioning empire with that will accomodate and encourage your beliefs, as well as giving you asylum and the protection of an army?

 

Which is why, by the founding of the Genesis Legion and the war of the False Primarch, it makes no sense for them to be technologically inferior to the Imperium. They would likely have the production capability and mechanical expertise of many forgeworlds. They would have been making many advancements, and that includes the field of armor design. The only caveat is that they would likely have less raw resources to support these innovations; all the more reason to have a stripped down, utilitarian look. Basically they need to be efficient with what they have.

 

tl;dr, Suzerainty would have better tech(likely experimental), but not as many resources to call on.

Although presumably, due to lack of resources, their armour would be designed with ease of production and cheapness in mind no?

[Doctor Perils]

 

@Skalpynock: I agree with all your points there.

 

Another thing to consider is that by the Suzerainty is built upon the ideal of technological and scientific advancement, beyond that of the stagnant Imperium. This effectively makes it a very attractive "third option" for radical Mechanicum elements. I mean, if you were a rogue magos, would you rather become a full-on heretek and be hounded by the imperium, living amongst scavengers and evil beings who are likely to backstab you, or would you want to be taken in by a fully functioning empire with that will accomodate and encourage your beliefs, as well as giving you asylum and the protection of an army?

 

Which is why, by the founding of the Genesis Legion and the war of the False Primarch, it makes no sense for them to be technologically inferior to the Imperium. They would likely have the production capability and mechanical expertise of many forgeworlds. They would have been making many advancements, and that includes the field of armor design. The only caveat is that they would likely have less raw resources to support these innovations; all the more reason to have a stripped down, utilitarian look. Basically they need to be efficient with what they have.

 

tl;dr, Suzerainty would have better tech(likely experimental), but not as many resources to call on.

Although presumably, due to lack of resources, their armour would be designed with ease of production and cheapness in mind no?

 

But why would there be a lack of ressources? with the quantity of worlds that are part of even a relatively small empire like the suzerainty, it's possible to get plenty enough ressources if it's done right - in fact, it may be even more so, as the distance to protect is smaller, and the disparities in technological advancement would likely be smaller.

 

On the other hand, I'd be wary of saying they have better tech than the Imperium - different tech would probably be fairer, as the Imperium does still have access to more STCs, even if they do shun progress.

 

What's the Suzerainty's views on Abominable Intelligence?

[~Drakzilla~]

Since the Suzerainty is an offshoot of the Imperium, and has Mechanicum elements, wouldn't they have access to the very same STC's that the Imperium has? Only difference is that they would have a willingness to tinker and improve upon said designs, hence better(and different) technology. Advanced science is kinda the Suzerainty's main schtick.

 

Thorn, you make a good point about the resources. I suppose just compared to the Imperium, they obviously have less resources, but they are a fraction of the Imperium's size, so it'd be relative. With that in mind, they have less soldiers, but could equip said soldiers with the latest technology. In addition, part of the whole advanced armor techniques would probably involve how to make armor more efficiently, in order to use less materials to achieve equivalent results to the Imperium's tech.

 

Not sure how they'd feel about AI...they likely wouldn't want a repeat of what happened with the Men of Iron, and especially not after the False Primarch thing.

[bluntblade]

To a point. There are likely some where access is restricted. However, for power armour and personal weapons, they'll have Forge Worlds from which they can get them.

 

I think the Imperium would also do a fair amount of tinkering too with Mars intact, and possibly reverse-engineer some xenos stuff. Question is, cam we establish a different flavour for each?

[Skalpynock]

What's the Suzerainty's views on Abominable Intelligence?

It's the Suzerainty of Humanity. It stands to reason they'd abhor it as anyone else since Old Night. It also raises the idea of them developing mentats and neuro-bulked savants to serve as advisers and living cogitators.

 

Concerning Nikanor armour: here's the aforementioned concept!

[Kelborn]

 

Did I read mentats?!

We need some Sapho juice over here!

And one if them has to be named Duncan Idaho.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Maybe not the glaive. Too close to grey knights, especially if the have grey blue as color.

 

Power mauls would be a nice thing

[Sigismund229]

The armour looks cool don't get me wrong but it kind of looks like a rip off of the Dornian Heresy's armour mark. Perhaps more inspiration from armour worn by Commonwealth Husaria and Muscovite nobles would help distinguish it?

[Skalpynock]

The armour looks cool don't get me wrong but it kind of looks like a rip off of the Dornian Heresy's armour mark. Perhaps more inspiration from armour worn by Commonwealth Husaria and Muscovite nobles would help distinguish it?

To be fair, I tried to advert that when drawing the abdomen part, but it just felt like the only way to have it protected without being impossible to bend forwards (which is the main criticism I have toward Mk IV). Corvax armor might be something to look at for inspiration. Will drop the useless downward rim on the shoulderpad as well. With the Suzerainty, I'll steer away from the classical Slavic and Chinese influences, and might look at more modern-ish Soviet / Chinese military and industrial stuff for inspiration, as well as generic sci-fi.

[MikhalLeNoir]

How about these as base?

 

[~Drakzilla~]

Currently working on a concept of my own that should hopefully be a good middleground. Will post later. Love those torsos though, just saw them today and they look great. And yes, less of a cultural theme for the Genesis legion, more of a scifi soldier look.

[~Drakzilla~]

http://i.imgur.com/MyNISqR.jpg

 

Okay so this design was done with converting in mind. With the impending release of plastic Tartaros termies, that can form the basis for the front of the torso, meanwhile the shoulder pads can be Puppetswar striker pads: https://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=221

For the arms, I had tempestus scions in mind, since they have high-tech displays built in.

 

The upper legs are standard space marine legs, while the knees and below could be Dreamforge eisenkern legs: http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/DF_Valkir-Assault-Trooper-5.jpg

 

Backpack could probably be a modified Mk.VIII or Mk.IV power pack.

 

The head I couldn't decide on, so I just put a Mk.III-esque helm in there. Thoughts?

[Slips]

The lack of bulk in the legs makes him look very top heavy. Pretty much my only niggle with this otherwise it looks pretty cool.

[bluntblade]

Yeah, broader shina and he'll be awesome

[Generalripphook]

What about using anvil industries black ops models? They are power armor esk with lots of pouches and stuff

[Doctor Perils]

Now, I have to say, that design is awesome drakzilla! I'd agree with previous posters on the legs being a tadge too thin, but otherwise very awesome!

So that it doesn't seem OP in the fluff compared to normal PA, how about saying they have very few sensor arrays on their armour, prefering instead the up-armoured bulk of the Nikanor pattern armour?

 

I wonder, to differentiate these guys from Space Marines, how would you feel about bikers being the assault-oriented rapid force, and the jump pack (read repulsor pack) guys be the shooty-oriented rapid force?

 

For the weapons, Skalpynock's concept sketch mentions a power glaive, but Mikhal doesn't like it. How about halberds? or zweihändern? (sorry about bringing those up so often, I just find that concept awesome :P)

[MikhalLeNoir]

zweihaender are cool. The apostles of war termis will have some extra for you.

I meant halberds and glaives remind me of the grey knights. Give thst color combination and you have genesia grey knights.

 

The sketch is really cool. What about those guys who make truscale marines? Tartaros will likely be used as base and will then look like thw nikanor. Is there a pissibility for imperial troops to have some?

[Kelborn]

Or maybe instead of halberds, a polearm with axe-like blades like the Bardiche?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardiche

 

Or something like a Horseman's Pick / War Hammer like the Dark Angels Ravenwing uses

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horesman%27s_pick

[MikhalLeNoir]

Darn... I read horsemens prick....

 

 

bardiche is cool but I meant to go away from the pole weapons.

[Doctor Perils]

Darn... I read horsemens prick....

 

 

bardiche is cool but I meant to go away from the pole weapons.

There aren't enough polearms in 40k, and the Suzerainty feels like the perfect place to put some. How about Lucerne Hammers / Becs de Corbin ? A polearm that isn't bladed might feel better for you Mikhal ?