Prot's Deathwatch Batrep w/Pics : VS. Genestealer Cult 1850

[Prot]

Sorry I have not been playing my Deathwatch consistently enough to be doing as many batreps, but I did have an opportunity to play against the new Genestealer Cult and according to GW... this is what we do best!

This might be one of the most ridiculous twists of fate I've seen in a final turn of game.

There were so many appropriate titles for this Batrep: "The Hills are Alive!", "Run for your Lives", "Mom's a Genestealer!", but I think we'll just stick with... 'I Have a Bad Feeling About this..."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Strap yourself in, this is going to get hairy, but first let me do my old setup of showing a pivotal moment. In this case we visit our heroic Deathwatch team deep in the pits of an abandoned mining town.

+++ A drone recorder snaps a pic feed: A rainy day on the grey bleak town of Intex. Thought to be abandoned but the Deathwatch knew better. The streets are alive with the stench of alien filth, and the Deathwatch have arrived to cleanse the streets of Intex. The Geneastealer Cult will have none of it, and see the Deathwatch as a means off the planet. The only thing for certain is outright carnage. +++

Maelstrom 1850: (3 cards a piece, per turn. One free Discard on impossible game cards (House Rule))

The Deathwatch:

CAD:

Watch Captain Varentoz (Imperial Fists Secondment) Beacon Angelis, Terminator Armour, Relic Blade, Auspex.

5 Vets, Razorback (twin Assault Cannon), Frag Cannons, Shield

5 Vets, Frag, Combi Melta, Drop Pod.

Terminators x 2 - assault cannons, 1 meltafist

Bikers x3, Maul, PWeapon, Beacon

Vanguard Vets x 4 (go in Corvus) Heavy Hammer, Twin Claws, Shield, Peon.

Skyshield Landing Pad

BLACK SPEAR:

Artemis

Aquila: Vets, Frag Cannons, Storm Shield, Drop Pod: Librarian ML 2: Tome of Ectolcades

Drop Ship: Corvus

Ordo Inquisitor in Termie Armour, ML1, 3 Servo Skulls, Psycannon.

Geneastealer Cult

- Broodlord + approximately 4,000 genestealers

- Abhorrents.

- 3 large infiltrating squads

- Astra Autocannon Walkers x 3

- Astra Russ Eradicator

- Dude with an Icon that gave FnP (psychic dude too I think)

-2 squads in a Chimeras

Other stuff that looks like slimy meat. (sorry can't remember it all.... plus it was similar stuff.)

The Game:

I win the roll off to go first, and set up the zone accordingly:

+++ The Corvus picks up the Vanguard and awaits orders. In the distance, some Nids have infiltrated the Ruins, but Servo Skulls keep them somewhat in the distance. +++

+++ Razorback squad is ready for the rocky ride provided by the Beacon Angelis +++

- I set up with speedier units in my zone, except I needed something back... with a bit of range that duty fell to the Terminators + Inquisitor and 3 Bikers.

- To the right of the terminators (off camera) the Razorback squad has set up for a 'slingshot' move if I need it. The pesky Nids infiltrate a squad behind them, deep in my zone, out of LoS.

Turn 1:

- I draw 3 cards, nothing is easy in this post apocalyptic world and I need objectives in the other zone, and shoot something... anything dead.

- I really don't know what to lay the Alpha down on... I KNOW that potentially the most damaging thing is the Leman Russ and Walkers, huddled up in the Nid Zone with a squad in Chimera backing them up. (Off camera). I know the Eradicator/Heavy Bolters isn't instant death, but I can't lose any models and I don't actually want to be in close combat with him.

- I let the cards decide... I need an objective deep in his zone. Captain Ventius strikes deep in the heart of the infested town, and sling shots the Razorback squad for back up.

+++ The Captain pods in a precarious position, but expert guidance sticks the landing. The Razorback materializes in front of what seems to be some sort of 'smart bug'. He's waiving a stick, uttering jibberish, and he smells like poo. +++

- The Librarian here rolled Librarius and really needed the re-roll saves but didn't get it, so instead tries to get the primaris shot off. It would be my only successful Psychic test for the game, as the Shadow in the Warp has this town in its grasp....

- The Deathwatch take an early lead; they grab the objective (Command Aquila is sitting right on it). The Command blows up the Chimera, and the Razorkback starts firing off on the cultist types surrounding the brain bug. But all is not well.... the Vanguard advance in the Corvus, get out, start to shoot another squad in the ruins but they are too resilient with FnP and ruin cover.... BUT the Vanguard decide to assault needing 10"... however the crafty bugs shoot a vanguard with a pistol or rock or something... and it kills a charging vanguard, making the distance 11" but they Vanguard fail, while losing one of their number.

- The Nids retalilate, but only the bikes take a true beating. The Eradicator plays the part, and some bikes roll '2's, and quickly the squad is in trouble.

TURN 2:

- Remember when there was only a few bugs? How I miss that turn, it was a nice turn.....

+++ The sudden screams of, "Start the Pod! Start the Pod!" could be heard from the wreckage surrounding the Chimera. "It doesn't work that way." The Captain reminded them.... there would be no escape here. The Deathwatch would hold their ground here, or die trying. +++

- The Genestealers push back hard. They advance to the centre, I have a decent lead points wise, but he has +1 to his reserves, and I had -1 which could have been ugly... I did not realize this until turn 2 which would have changed my deployment but wouldn't have made a difference....

+++ The Bikes are disapearing and by T2 are down to one. The humanoids don't waiver, and even though they are riddled with assault cannon fire, they advance to the ruins to claim an objective. The last remaining biker is reluctant to advance into the squad. He does not know fear, but he does know the smell of defecation, and he'd rather avoid it. +++

My second Drop Pod has a horrible deviation. The Deathwatch know they have to take down some of the armoured might . It's corrupt, and it's causing some expensive deaths in the Deathwatch back lines.... but the Pod with the Melta and Frag Cannon would deviate 11". They do stay on the table but are in such a horrible position, the melta will not be within 6".

+++ This drop pod (out of picture) squad deviated too far to be in their effective range, and would only manage one glanced hull point off the Leman Russ.+++

- The Bugs continue to spam powers, and while my terminators would fire off into the ruins, the Inquisitor would fail to cast Prescience all game.

- The Vanguard charge into the squad with the Icon bearer (the brain bug). It smelled disgusting, and the Vanguard managed to slay them before they fired a shot, finally removing FnP from the area.

- The Genestealers weren't alone. Behind my HQ in the pod there was a squad of Abbhorrents that snuck in. The Captain had his weak orbital strike warlord trait. Although I could not see the Abhorrents, I re-read Orbital strike and it does not need LoS that I could see... that being said, the Captain could smell the Abhorrents.... they wreaked of month old cabbage and rotten potatoes. He rolled a 1 for his strike anyway...

+++ The Terminators Finally kill everything in ruins, and the lone biker would rush into the Chimera with his power maul and completely miss. But the Terminator with Melta shot would take down the Chimera with his final shot... +++

- Above, the final biker dies to the Chimera's occupant's shot's unceremoniously.

- Above the Corvus had turned around, hit the skies and zoomed over the Chimera squad and spanked them with a bomb killing about half the squad. (Perhaps the best bomb run I've ever had with it.)

- Something interesting... the Corvus at the end of this run pumps its Assault cannon into a squad hiding in the ruins (above- far upper right). The squad would break, then run just outside of 6" allowing the squad to 'Hide Like Cowards in the Shadows"!

They would come back the next turn at full strength, with their weapons upgrades. Sure wish I could get my hands on some 'free' for this Deathwatch... as things are looking ugly...

- I get some more points and have a bit of a lead, the Genestealers are coming though! One squad assaults my 'melta' pod squad (futile earlier in the game). I win the combat by one somehow, and he runs off the table.

- I still feel outnumbered by a ton... my last guy from that squad has a Frag cannon and he rushes and fires at the back of the Leman Russ and fails again to do more than stun it.

- The Stunned Russ, kills some of my HQ squad with snap fires (I rolled a LOT of 2's this game which also severely hurt my Mission Tactics ). A lot of bikes, and marines went down on two's.

- Finally I give everything I've got to that giant Stealer Squad with the Broodlord in it....

+++ And we're back to this key, pivotal moment. There would be MASSIVE destruction here, but you'd never in a million years guess how it happened. +++

- The Genestealers are coming in their turn. (I forgot to mention that they had some ability from Turn 1 I think.. it was their armour save turned to a 4+ and that combined with FnP and Ruins saves made this extremely difficult)...so I turn my Razorback around to reinforce the HQ squad:

+ The Razorback Snapfires, and gets nothing.

+ Artemis and squad unload 2 Frag Cannons for several hits and I even (with Artemis Flamer) manage to hit a few from an adjacent squad. Lots die, but more take their place. Seemingly the unending horde is fighting beyond their limits...

+ The Librarian fails his Primaris shot test.

+ The Command squad fires off 2 Frag Cannons as well eliminating more bugs. Burning debris is everywhere, but again, I'm not scoring Rends, and without an AP, the flamer isn't getting through the 4+ saves nearly enough.

- The Genestealers are enraged. The Broodlord steps forward, and it's is their turn to retaliate:

+ The Broodlord unleashes a heinous power.... he passes a Psychic test to SHOOT my dual Frag Cannon squad at my HQ SQUAD!

+ The Deathwatch Librarian rolls all denial dice to block this, but he is weak in the force, and utterly fails to stop this atrocity.

+ The Deathwatch Razorback squad with Artemis and Frag Cannons kill the entire command squad, the Frag cannons, the sarge (only made one Storm Shield Save), the Librarian in Termia armour (instant death), and put the Captain down 2 wounds!!! Once again proving my point Deathwatch are far better at killing marines than Xenos!

+++ The Deathwatch have learned a new trick today: Why shoot your opponent when it's easier to shoot yourself? The Assault continues to add shame to the horror. +++

- The Broodlord (not in picture) advances his squad and performs a multi assault. The captain down to one wound will not accept the Challenge. Instead Artemis will, and we screw this up because he wanted to use his ability to Look out Sir all attacks at the Broodlord made by Artemis. I said as far as I knew he couldn't and this would have to be some special rule. (Later on he confirmed it IS an actual Broodlord rule that he can auto look out sir in challenges!)

- So ironically getting this rule wrong would be to Artemis' detriment. Because as a result of the challenge he would forgo all of his normal attacks to throw the D-bomb! (I'm 0-7 as of this fight, but luck's with me on this, I can feel it!)

- Artemis gets to go first because the Genestealers don't have Frags and they charge out of ruins.... I am playing this as the Elite's Mission Tactic because the Broodlord is part of the squad of Genestealers (Elites battlefield role). SO Artemis gets to re-roll 1's, and hits on 4's.... Would you do this? I know Arty would!!!

- Artemis rolls a 2. It appears he did not feel luck, but impending pain.... the Broodlord sees Artemis' slow attack coming, and crunches his fist around the D-bomb and smashes it into Artemis' skull. A 6 is rolled and Artemis is removed from play. (0-8)

- The close combat is over... With my one squad decimating my command squad, and Artemis killing himself again, the fat lady is warming up in the background.

- I can, at this point, play the points. I knew things were going badly in T2. I had too few units and they weren't killing enough as usual. The re-appearing squads and psychic powers were getting the best of the Deathwatch, and the Russ was eating away at the Deathwatch bit by bit.

- I decided to call it as I turned into the Genestealer cult because I knew I was dead, and tried to make a game of it. It all went even worse than I imagined after I shot myself to death. Once again, a true lack of Deathwatch Psychic character or Psychic defense really hurts this army.

So I could have skirted the edges and tried to ride my lead into T6-7 but it felt sheepish to do so and I thought my opponent deserved the win.

I hope you enjoyed this read, and remember, when you see a pair of yellowed eyes staring at you in the dark, and you smell that rotten cabbage, and can hear the heavy breathing... run... run for a different codex as fast as you can!

[Trollbeard]

Great bat-rep prot! Always enjoy reading your reports!

 

Artemis' D-bomb seems way too risky to use lol, as I see you have found out the hard way! It seems to Orky being able to blow himself up like that.

 

After playing against GC how do you feel the codices stack up compared to one another? Did GW give the filthy xenos more tricks and toys yet again?

 

All in all a great read and a tough match up it seems! Thanks for the report nonetheless!

[T0MMY]

Great report - very entertaining; especially fragging your own command squad!!

[Vash]

Fun report to read. But my faith is still strong with the Deathwatch. 

It seems you have had extreme bad luck with Artemis. 0-8 with the D-bomb. Thats really bad statistics... 

 

I am hoping to get a game versus the Genstealer cult one day. Only have one confirmed opponent so far who does, but at the moment he has more Astra Militarum things in that army (russ, sentinels, basic infantry). 

 

Dont hunt me down now, but in the future I plan to field a GC force. This due to memories from second edition. I have bought and read through the codex and it really has potential. 

But, in the end, I would rather see them burn :) So I won't be to sad if I lose in the end. 

 

Loving those aged pictures effect. How did you go by doing them?

[Prot]

Great bat-rep prot! Always enjoy reading your reports!

Artemis' D-bomb seems way too risky to use lol, as I see you have found out the hard way! It seems to Orky being able to blow himself up like that.

After playing against GC how do you feel the codices stack up compared to one another? Did GW give the filthy xenos more tricks and toys yet again?

All in all a great read and a tough match up it seems! Thanks for the report nonetheless!

Being 0-8 I haven't always missed with it, but at the very least I've failed to kill anything with it. At the very worst, this is the second time I've flat out hit myself in the melon with it....

Thank you for reading the batrep. I honestly have only seen the codex in action twice, so far though it looks incredibly flexible and... dodgy. Being able to grab broken units and put them back full, with upgrades is incredibly strong. You really don't need vehicles when you can yank units and re-deploy them nearly anywhere you want next turn. The psychic stuff is just too good. There is no bad power for them. I think we're going to see a LOT more Nids now. Unfortunately I don't know if DW can do much about it.

Great report - very entertaining; especially fragging your own command squad!!

Woot! This reinforces my premise that this is not the Xenos killer we hoped it would be, but wow did I kill my own Command squad like an ace or what? ;)

And Artemis finishing it off with the kobayashi maru just added insult to injury... wow. This will not make back to the Black Fortes Hall of records, trust me.

Fun report to read. But my faith is still strong with the Deathwatch.

It seems you have had extreme bad luck with Artemis. 0-8 with the D-bomb. Thats really bad statistics...

I am hoping to get a game versus the Genstealer cult one day. Only have one confirmed opponent so far who does, but at the moment he has more Astra Militarum things in that army (russ, sentinels, basic infantry).

Dont hunt me down now, but in the future I plan to field a GC force. This due to memories from second edition. I have bought and read through the codex and it really has potential.

But, in the end, I would rather see them burn So I won't be to sad if I lose in the end.

Loving those aged pictures effect. How did you go by doing them?

So your faith is strong in the Deathwatch and our reward for this is... you're starting Genestealers?!?! Seriously Vash, it's a good thing you're in a different country or a big black truck with a red =I= would be pulling up right about now. ;)

The pic effects were just a filter from a freebie app that edits photos. I think it was 'photoscape'.

Glad you found some fun in this. I strive to amuse you guys. ;)

[Silas7]

Slightly depressed about that psychic power, I don't play a lot but this edition has the worst psychic phase and seeing the abuse people do with it sours my taste even more. Really wish GW was as flexible with codex balance as the GC seems to be on the table.

[Sheesh Mode]

Prot, have you fielded an execution force with your DeathWatch yet?

[MithrilForge]

Gee i'm seeing a lack of psychic defense in the bat reps i'm seeing... would a few libbys in squads help? and/or a Culexus assassin ...

Great bat rep by the way Prot, again many thanks for this "real life,not theory hammer" Guide to DW for us

I look fwd to more...and to you whipping some Genestealer behinds next time .

my mates are getting into the GC to counter my DW army ...looks like i need to prepare myself for some humbling games before i work a killer strategy

Mithril

P.s. the nids look like a work in Progress, is it a mates army or just some joe you just played against? wonder what that schemes going to finish looking like

[Prot]

Slightly depressed about that psychic power, I don't play a lot but this edition has the worst psychic phase and seeing the abuse people do with it sours my taste even more. Really wish GW was as flexible with codex balance as the GC seems to be on the table.

the Genestealer Cult really doesn't have a 'bad' psychic power. He had to roll off to get that power, and he got lucky.... then he got doubly lucky by passing it on 5 dice. There''s no way I could dispel that.

Some armies are -okay- ignoring the psychic phase. They make up for it in other ways. Armies like Tau or Necrons can compensate with severe offensive output, or survivability. I think the Deathwatch needed something more than making these expensive squads even more expensive with littering Librarians into a bunch of Aquila's.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I do know each death is keenly felt and your numbers fall super fast. So I don't believe at this point we can ignore the LibCons/Cyclopia Cabals/etc, etc.

Prot, have you fielded an execution force with your DeathWatch yet?

Not entirely. I did it once with my Grey Knights. But not a full execution force.... I have used 2 different Assassins with this Deathwatch army. The Culexus is starting to feel mandatory. (the last game I used him my opponent had no psykers.)

Gee i'm seeing a lack of psychic defense in the bat reps i'm seeing... would a few libbys in squads help? and/or a Culexus assassin ...

Great bat rep by the way Prot, again many thanks for this "real life,not theory hammer" Guide to DW for us

I look fwd to more...and to you whipping some Genestealer behinds next time .

my mates are getting into the GC to counter my DW army ...looks like i need to prepare myself for some humbling games before i work a killer strategy

Mithril

P.s. the nids look like a work in Progress, is it a mates army or just some joe you just played against? wonder what that schemes going to finish looking like

The Nids are a friends. Definitely a work in progress. He's been playing Nids for years and dying for a reason to start using Genestealers again. Looks like he found his reason. lol

Psychic Defense: This game I lowered my Librarian count because it was getting too expensive, and not productive enough. (fielding 3 Librarians does not equate to LibCon for example)

In this game: I had the Inquisitor Detachment with ML1 (He had a Psycannon and was with the Assault cannon terminators casting Prescience every turn (never succeeded though.)

Also the Black Spear Detachment HQ was a ML2 Terminator Librarian (he failed to use his Hood to deny the Mind Control power which would see his demise.)

I feel like in hindsight I learned how potent the Genestealer codex is... I would play a lot of this differently because you really can't separate a small army like Deathwatch against this. It can pop up, recycyle and re-pop up anywhere. This makes objective grabbing super hard, but I think that's what I would do against this type of army next time.

[Vel'Cona]

Absolutely amazing batrep, Prot! Love the play-by-play and the pics are frankly WD quality. It's too bad it didn't go the way of the Xenos Hunters, but there again a lot of what we've seen in your batreps and reports from around the forums have confirmed the mediocrity of what should be a magnificent codex.

I'm not swearing off them at all, but it's hard to stay motivated when things look so grim for the DW. I think paying attention to the narrative will really be important going forward, and I appreciate all the work you've done to try and keep things positive. Hang tough, brother!

[Honda]

wand/or a Culexus assassin ...

^^ This

As I was reading your excellent batrep, I kept thinking...a couple whirlwinds, some LS Typhoons, maybe a couple of Storm Talons would have been nice to zip around and pre-empt some of those GS squads.

As a Templar, I thought LRCs might come in handy as well. :)

However, working with what is in the codex, do you think if you had taken more Corvus to provide a quick reaction force to counter the emerging threats?

I mean, if he's going to go all Viet Cong on you, counter with Blackhorse (i.e. Airmobile).

I don't know how feasible that is with the codex, but if I was going to play my Elysians against the GS, I'd definitely bring Inquisitor Duvall and introduce them to the the "smell of victory" in the morning.

I look forward to more DW reports.

[Prot]

Absolutely amazing batrep, Prot! Love the play-by-play and the pics are frankly WD quality. It's too bad it didn't go the way of the Xenos Hunters, but there again a lot of what we've seen in your batreps and reports from around the forums have confirmed the mediocrity of what should be a magnificent codex.

I'm not swearing off them at all, but it's hard to stay motivated when things look so grim for the DW. I think paying attention to the narrative will really be important going forward, and I appreciate all the work you've done to try and keep things positive. Hang tough, brother!

Thanks a lot for reading them. Their time consuming but I try to do one of my games every week or two.

wand/or a Culexus assassin ...

^^ This

As I was reading your excellent batrep, I kept thinking...a couple whirlwinds, some LS Typhoons, maybe a couple of Storm Talons would have been nice to zip around and pre-empt some of those GS squads.

As a Templar, I thought LRCs might come in handy as well.

However, working with what is in the codex, do you think if you had taken more Corvus to provide a quick reaction force to counter the emerging threats?

I mean, if he's going to go all Viet Cong on you, counter with Blackhorse (i.e. Airmobile).

I don't know how feasible that is with the codex, but if I was going to play my Elysians against the GS, I'd definitely bring Inquisitor Duvall and introduce them to the the "smell of victory" in the morning.

I look forward to more DW reports.

Viet Cong... lol. Man that's what it felt like.

In hindsight I did some errors on my part that were part of not realizing how janky the GC is on the board.

Errors aside:

- A Crusader is a very good idea... I'm always partial to the Redeemer though because I can slingshot it across the board using the Beacon Angelis into instant flame range.

- Multi Corvus' are a tricky thing. I use one right now because the Sky Shield was in my CAD so it's on the table T1. I could have afforded a second one by removing the Vanguard Vets, but they have super heavy duty in most games. That being said the Corvus was okay in this game... a second one would have been strong. But he had -1 to my reserves so having it off the board... ouch.

- Cullexus is definitely going in the list. I'd almost rather take out some libbies and stop the Psychic goofiness which is really hindering my last few games.

Truly with Ultra I never worried about it. I just had so much more on the table, and often used LibCon which gave me good cancellation (if Tiggy is involved I'm usually canceling on a 4+). Some of my other armies just can get away with ignoring it all together. But this was brutal... fatal. That last turn "Mind Control" essentially won him the game.

I really despise one shot "I win" powers that are so devastating, but it's where the game is right now in a lot of cases. If you look at all the strong of the new Astartes powers, they're just as strong. Cyclopia Cabal.... Old powers like Invis.... Look at that Daemon Game I posted up last time. We -really- have to factor in the psychic phase somehow with a small model count. It's just devastating.

My Grey Knights don't worry about too much.... but for these guys I have to implement something. It's literally costing me games. Makes me wonder about the SoS coming out. :)

[deathspectersgt7]

Great BR Prot . I had a good laugh . I have yet to use and even put together yet ole Artie .

[Honda]

- Multi Corvus' are a tricky thing. I use one right now because the Sky Shield was in my CAD so it's on the table T1.

 

 

Curious, outside of the reserves shenanigans, did he have anything that could effect flyers zooming around? Outside of allies, does the GC codex have anyway to deal with flyers? I'll admit I was thinking more along the lines of "what do I have that he can't counter?"

 

I could have afforded a second one by removing the Vanguard Vets, but they have super heavy duty in most games.

 

 

If this stems from your desire not to "tailor" you lists, I support you in that effort. That being said, a concern I have about the DW codex is that it appears to me that a lot of it's "awesome" type firepower is tied up in expensive foot troops. That's not necessarily bad, but if you take a similar approach in the SM codex, you can balance that to a degree with cheaper assets that also happen to be mobile, and when I say "mobile" I'm thinking of units that can ignore or are not hindered by terrain.

 

I'm not sure what the DW options are in that regard.

 

- Cullexus is definitely going in the list. I'd almost rather take out some libbies and stop the Psychic goofiness which is really hindering my last few games.

 

 

It seems that unless you're going to dump a lot of libby's into your lists (diluting other aspects of the army), that the Culexus might be a reasonable play. The DW are never going to be a poor man's GK, so it seems that going asymmetrical on the GC psykers might be a more cost effective way to attack the issue.

 

The other thing to consider is that overwhelming firepower rarely "perils" on you. :P

[Vel'Cona]

- Multi Corvus' are a tricky thing. I use one right now because the Sky Shield was in my CAD so it's on the table T1.

Curious, outside of the reserves shenanigans, did he have anything that could effect flyers zooming around? Outside of allies, does the GC codex have anyway to deal with flyers? I'll admit I was thinking more along the lines of "what do I have that he can't counter?"

Generally speaking, GC played solo really struggle with flyers, but it's not a big stretch to slide in a Flyrant, Hydra or Vendetta from the limited Allies available. In many cases they can probably just ignore most flyers since they're really good at getting into combat quickly and staying there until they win.

That being said, the Corvus played specifically for infantry killing could do a number on the 5+ saves across the GC army. Between the TL AC, Bombs and Rockets that's a lot of dead gribblies, especially if they roll poorly on Cult Ambush!

[Brother Aiwass]

Nice batrep Prot! 

 

Very fun to read, it's like an extended Lost Patrol game :lol:

[Prot]

Nice batrep Prot!

Very fun to read, it's like an extended Lost Patrol game

Oh this patrol is lost alright. lol

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Prot thank you for your battle reports, sucks this one was that brutal. Its interesting to see how your lists adapt I like the Inquisitor with terminator honor guard, it feels fluffy and I think it has potential.

 

I've played against GCs once and its rough to keep track of all of there special rules. I really wish games workshop would make some tokens or something to help keep track of all the buffs. My experience mirrored yours, and a lot of it for me was that I really didn't know what should have target priority, and deathwatch don't last long enough for you to adjust on the fly.

[Gree]

A couple of key points.

 

-Deathwatch really lack the numbers to deal with Genestealer Cults, especially if they roll the Broodmind summoning power.

 

-I find that trying to engage in close combat with the Cult is largely pointless. I would personally focus more on shooting abilities and trying to keep an arm's length.

 

-I would consider a unit of 4 Frag Cannons to deal with the First Curse (The Patriarch and his bodyguard.)

 

All Genestealer HQ auto-pass Look Out Sir Checks, so trying to deal with them like normal HQ's does not really work. Combined with Shrouded in the Cult Insurrection Detachment, and that Stealer Deathstar can be difficult to deal with. I know he conventional wisdom is 2 frag cannons, but in this case you would really want to wipe the unit in one go before they can go anything.

 

-Bearing that In mind I would have replaced Artemis with a Terminator Librarian.

 

Hope that helps.

 

+++ The Corvus picks up the Vanguard and awaits orders. In the distance, some Nids have infiltrated the Ruins, but Servo Skulls keep them somewhat in the distance. +++

 

Was it Infiltration or Cult Ambush?

 

I know there has been alot of argument on the internet about whether or not Servo-Skulls can affect Cult Ambush or not. I'm not sure if your gaming group has agreed on any particular interpretation.

 

I'm nuetral on the issue, but in my last game with a Genestealer cult I played it so that Servo-Skulls don't affect Cult Ambush.

[Honda]

-Deathwatch really lack the numbers to deal with Genestealer Cults, especially if they roll the Broodmind summoning power.

 

-I find that trying to engage in close combat with the Cult is largely pointless. I would personally focus more on shooting abilities and trying to keep an arm's length.

 

-I would consider a unit of 4 Frag Cannons to deal with the First Curse (The Patriarch and his bodyguard.)

 

All Genestealer HQ auto-pass Look Out Sir Checks, so trying to deal with them like normal HQ's does not really work. Combined with Shrouded in the Cult Insurrection Detachment, and that Stealer Deathstar can be difficult to deal with. I know he conventional wisdom is 2 frag cannons, but in this case you would really want to wipe the unit in one go before they can go anything.

 

 

I think there's a lot of wisdom in the above.

 

The other thought that keeps percolating in my head is that DW "seem" to be a heavily kitted out assassination force. If true, their goal should be to "sever the head, then the body will die".

 

That would mean optimizing forces such that no matter where the Patriarch and other leaders are, you seek them out and kill them first...with extreme prejudice.

 

Theoretically, the rest of the body becomes significantly less effective as a result.

 

Now we would expect a cagey GC player to bubble wrap and other shenanigans, but our focus should be in taking those units out. Note, this means that DW should not be played like a new uber version of SM. They have different roles.

 

So, to ask Prot about his most recent game, if you had been able to single out the GC leadership, certain aspects of the game would have gone better, but how would the overall effect of those changes impacted the rest of the GC play?

 

We're just speculatin' here, so feel free to go theoretical. :)

[Prot]

No I don't think it would have made a difference. The only true effect one of the 'leaders' has was getting of the psychic power that had me annihilate my own command squad.

 

Other than that I actually think the opposite is true: the strength of the GSC is in the mass of garbage that keeps coming up through the sewers. The most truly elite thing in the army was the Genestealer cult. I wouldn't bother with the Broodlord. You'll pay dearly for getting within a 10 foot pole of that squad.

 

Not to sound harsh but I strongly recommend against putting more than 2 Frag cannons in a squad. It's total overkill and far too expensive. (My first 5-6 games I did this to my own disadvantage).

 

As far as the Servo Skulls. We ruled it for Cult Ambush to take effect. Strangely enough it hardly has an effect on Deathwatch in this manner (it's meant for Daemonkin or White Scars style of board control). In this case it took him about 2 turns to remove all skulls on the table, and most of my army is in reserves.

[Gree]

No I don't think it would have made a difference. The only true effect one of the 'leaders' has was getting of the psychic power that had me annihilate my own command squad.

 

Other than that I actually think the opposite is true: the strength of the GSC is in the mass of garbage that keeps coming up through the sewers. The most truly elite thing in the army was the Genestealer cult. I wouldn't bother with the Broodlord. You'll pay dearly for getting within a 10 foot pole of that squad.

The garbage can actually be tied into the HQ's though. If they get the Broodmind summoning power than Genestealer Cults can play a scarily effective summon spam. All of which can arrive via Cult Ambush. During my game with the Genestealer Cult, the Magus must have summoned about 400-500 points worth of extra Genestealers that appeared right next to my units. I was only fortunate that it was a Kill Points game. Had it been an objective game then he would have probably won.

 

 

Not to sound harsh but I strongly recommend against putting more than 2 Frag cannons in a squad. It's total overkill and far too expensive. (My first 5-6 games I did this to my own disadvantage).

Different experiences for different people I guess. My own experiences have taught me otherwise. I've experienced situations where 1 or 2 Frag Cannons are insufficient or there I encounter a Deathstar unit that needs to die as soon as possible.

 

In my game against the Genestealer Cults I had my unit of 4 Frag Cannons go after the Hive Tyrant and fail to kill it. It would have been better for me to have them go after the Magus that was hidden in a 20-Man Neophyte Squad that effectively gave him 20 extra wounds. Had they wiped out the Magus and his squad in that one turn than all those extra Genestealers that would have been summoned would have been neutralized on Turn 1.

[Honda]

No I don't think it would have made a difference. The only true effect one of the 'leaders' has was getting of the psychic power that had me annihilate my own command squad.

 

 

Interesting...I think that puts me back to being an advocate for "death by bullets". ;)

[Prot]

Honestly I have re-played the Genestealer Cult a few more times.

 

Wow what a codex. I think I was being a little too hard on my Deathwatch in this particular instance. The Genestealer Cult is on a different level. It will compete against some of the meta 'masters' that currently reside. The GSC can dissect a lot of campy junk that kind of owns the table tops at tournaments right now.

 

I gravely underestimated the amount of power that 'picking up your stuff, adding D6 to it, then putting it nearly where ever you want to.'

 

While that doesn't happen every turn, it happens a lot. Add to that the psychic powers which I still think are too good. Add in survivable Genestealers that are cheaper than their Nid counter parts.... it's just bloody nasty.

 

The Deathwatch are always going to struggle. A vanilla marine army with plenty of bolters is a better option here imho. With Ultra I can turn on re-rolls and bolter it to death. The Deathwatch are often too small to commit that much to 'chaff' units so they can gang up on you.

 

I also realize that you want to almost to board yourself up in a shell because of the 'strike from the shadows' stuff... it's just too much for a small army. You literally MUST destroy what you are shooting at.

 

If you castle yourself up, we don't have the units to go after the objectives. If you go after the objectives, the GSC simply snap units off the table, re-appear right next to you and grow in numbers while doing it...

 

It's a very tough codex. Very well thought out.

 

In games I've played since, I realized you can't even go after the vehicles that are 'alone' in the corner shelling you to death, because the GSC will respond with 2-3-4 squads the next turn appearing from the shadows.

Deathwatch actually have to reinforce wherever you make your move at a moment's notice. You can't leave anything out to dry when you're playing against GSC.

[Vel'Cona]

Have to agree, GC are looking to be very powerful, especially in shooting-heavy 7th ed. meta.  The pieces of the admittedly somewhat sparse codex come together beautifully to make a list that's at once stronger than either of those it's derived from (IG and Tyranids).  DW, with our limited numbers, dependence on eliminating units and very unforgiving nature can't afford to make any mistakes versus such a resilient force, especially given the flexibility with which GC can re-deploy to meet our Kill Teams' threat.  Even if you play everything perfectly, I feel like DW will just falter when it comes down to it versus numerous (horde) armies simply because we can't afford to get caught out and losing half of our models is pretty much a death sentence (whereas for other codices it's par for the game).