Prot's Deathwatch Batrep w/Pics : VS. Genestealer Cult 1850

[Honda]

The death star problem is we're missing the death part and the star part. a true deathstar has a mega killing component and/or a super survivable aspect.

I think MSU is a better approach. My reasoning, reinforced by how well the GSC handled a decently crafted Eldar list:

1. GSC have the tools needed to deal with a DS. Also, keep in mind that if they don't, they can use psychic powers to use your own weapons against you.

2. DS can only be in one place at one time. Also in general, can only kill one unit at a time. The GSC has plenty of other units to play the obsec game and do that very well.

3. GSC is a real horde army, with some of the best reserve shenanigans possible, thus making it even more imperative that you kill as many units as possible.

Make no mistake, GSC is going to be a very tough opponent.

Since my xenos loving friend just picked up their codex, I feel like I'm going to get my own opportunities to test out my theories before too long, though I will be using either my Templars or Elysians. So not really appropriate for this forum, but I do expect to learn things that might be helpful.

[Prot]

The thing I've learned over the (now) several games I've played against them is:

 

-  I know it's been mentioned, but destroy the entire squad or forget about it. ;)

 

- Do not separate your squads if you can help it. I know at times you have to use good judgement to grab an objective. We often prefer Maelstrom so it's often forcing you to go in two directions at once. The thing is after someone gets good with GSC, you'll see they will "miss" deploy on purpose....

 

GSC do this as a way to mis-direct the Deathwatch! They actually wanted a better roll off for their Infiltrate goofiness so they will plop something in the middle of nowhere, then hope to sucker you in, maybe even let you kill a few, then pick up the squad next turn, gain D6 models, then re-deploy against you.

 

- I don't know if I mentioned it in this forum, but over in the Grey Knights forum I did another game to test my Custodes (which I plan to use with my Deathwatch too). I played against GSC and here is the Batrep:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327675-prot-batrep-quickie-custodes-gk-vs-genestealer-cult-wpics/

 

The thing I found was... 2+ saves actually DO slow them down. Ironic because who the heck takes termies anymore? My GK and Custodes were able to slow down the hits. Yes the rending is still nasty, but at least if you get in CC with them, they can't just disappear because they don't like the match up. 

 

^ This in particular has me going back to my belief that MSU Termies (of various designs actually) MIGHT have a good long term/all comers effect in our games.

 

- Frag is great, but shotguns here are very, very good. The AP of the shot gun even used as a Xenoslug is very, very useful here. Then when they inevitably assault the S3 Wall of flaming insects is always a good move! Shotguns, shotguns, shotguns.

 

The special ammo is what kind of gets me because really it's not that great in this situation. Their cover is often quite good but a lot of the time I find they're getting a 5+ invuln anyway and often with FnP afterwards

 

- The Psyker crap really has me pushing harder into the idea of Culexus and/or Sisters. I just like Sisters better for numbers, and super cheap flamers, but the Culexus is THE anti Pskyer dude of the Imperium for sure.

 

- It's not often talked about but the Broodlord is actually nasty. I think he's well priced for what he does but this is where you really notice our lack of assault HQ really come to the forefront. I mean this is the ONE case I can think of where a Watch Master is 'okay'. The Broodlord will continually challenge, and He/She/It will always hit you on 3's anyway so your ability to "Block" is higher here, and unless He/She/It is rending you, you'll have a good chance of staying around. 

 

The thing is you can't beat the bloody Broodlord down because He/She/It auto passes all Look Out Sirs. So you have to literally exhaust 20 Genestealer Bodyguards first! This is really key here so actually it's probably the best bet for a "Warlord" in a GSC army because it's just so hard to take down when properly used.

[Honda]

The thing I found was... 2+ saves actually DO slow them down. Ironic because who the heck takes termies anymore? My GK and Custodes were able to slow down the hits. Yes the rending is still nasty, but at least if you get in CC with them, they can't just disappear because they don't like the match up. 

 

^ This in particular has me going back to my belief that MSU Termies (of various designs actually) MIGHT have a good long term/all comers effect in our games.

 

 

Since I've never fallen out of love with my termies, I continue to use them almost everywhere I go. This is good to hear.

 

I'm looking forward to reading your batrep.

[Sheesh Mode]

Fought a broodlord yesterday and I am looking forward to facing it again with my xenophase/stormshield/artificer armor Watch Captain in the future. 

[Prot]

 

The thing I found was... 2+ saves actually DO slow them down. Ironic because who the heck takes termies anymore? My GK and Custodes were able to slow down the hits. Yes the rending is still nasty, but at least if you get in CC with them, they can't just disappear because they don't like the match up. 

 

^ This in particular has me going back to my belief that MSU Termies (of various designs actually) MIGHT have a good long term/all comers effect in our games.

 

 

Since I've never fallen out of love with my termies, I continue to use them almost everywhere I go. This is good to hear.

 

I'm looking forward to reading your batrep.

 

 

 

Thanks. Yea this is one thing I love about Deathwatch. It's actually very easy to include 'bodyguard' Termies. In a CAD or dual CAD it's actually very easy to spam MSU special role Terminators which feels VERY fluffy. I have been playing CAD more and more as I find bigger frustration with the BSSF.

 

Although there's a big part of me that wants the BSSF to work, it's simply a poorly executed detachment. So if there's no real free, and no real ObSec, I really am leaning towards Termie Spam more an more.

 

I'm seeing Deathstar killing types of opponents looking over at my solo Termie with assault cannon, Termie with Melta fist, termie with Cyclone and thinking...do I really want to waste a turn hunting that down? Only a Stormsurge truly deals with this with ease. The down side is kill points, but I think the Upside and feel of it out weighs that so far.

 

Against GSC  solo Termies hasn't been thoroughly tested, but in my mini- Blood Angel batrep I just did, they were quite good. No one wants to dump 300 pts of Grav into a solo dude for a turn.

 

Fought a broodlord yesterday and I am looking forward to facing it again with my xenophase/stormshield/artificer armor Watch Captain in the future. 

 

So how did that fight go? A solo Broodlord is a very rare thing in GSC.... I do find my Watch Captain in Termie armour with Relic blade did very well too, but can't out last the ~20 ablative wounds the creature has at his disposal!

 

But in my Grey Knights batrep the Custodes actually outlasted a very large number of Genestealers. I have to admit though that their base Strength and Toughness had a lot to do with it.

[neonwolf]

Fought a broodlord yesterday and I am looking forward to facing it again with my xenophase/stormshield/artificer armor Watch Captain in the future. 

I have been toying with the idea of kitting out a Captain this way as well...along with a Jump Pack just for Rule of Cool.

[Sheesh Mode]

 

Fought a broodlord yesterday and I am looking forward to facing it again with my xenophase/stormshield/artificer armor Watch Captain in the future. 

 

So how did that fight go? A solo Broodlord is a very rare thing in GSC.... I do find my Watch Captain in Termie armour with Relic blade did very well too, but can't out last the ~20 ablative wounds the creature has at his disposal!

 

But in my Grey Knights batrep the Custodes actually outlasted a very large number of Genestealers. I have to admit though that their base Strength and Toughness had a lot to do with it.

 

Badly. He rolled a 6 for the Patriarch and his 'Stealer guard, then assaulted a rhino full of combi-veterans. I was planning on teleporting it across to support my drop pods. So, I dropped next to him instead, and annihilated the genestealers with just one Kill Team, but failed to kill the Patriarch because of a 2+ cover save, and its high toughness. 

 

This gave my opponent the opportunity to isolate a squad and overwhelm them with cheap bodies before the Patriarch finished them off. The terminator in the Aquila stayed alive for quite awhile however. Those 2+ saves really do a great job, rending aside. But a BlackShield was what actually killed it. 

 

Prot is right. If we want to kill the Patriarch in close combat we need the best invulnerable, and armor saves we can get. I advocate for the Xenophase blade for its forced re-rolls, but think it might be necessary to add digital weapons.

 

 

[Prot]

 

 

Fought a broodlord yesterday and I am looking forward to facing it again with my xenophase/stormshield/artificer armor Watch Captain in the future. 

 

So how did that fight go? A solo Broodlord is a very rare thing in GSC.... I do find my Watch Captain in Termie armour with Relic blade did very well too, but can't out last the ~20 ablative wounds the creature has at his disposal!

 

But in my Grey Knights batrep the Custodes actually outlasted a very large number of Genestealers. I have to admit though that their base Strength and Toughness had a lot to do with it.

 

Badly. He rolled a 6 for the Patriarch and his 'Stealer guard, then assaulted a rhino full of combi-veterans. I was planning on teleporting it across to support my drop pods. So, I dropped next to him instead, and annihilated the genestealers with just one Kill Team, but failed to kill the Patriarch because of a 2+ cover save, and its high toughness. 

 

This gave my opponent the opportunity to isolate a squad and overwhelm them with cheap bodies before the Patriarch finished them off. The terminator in the Aquila stayed alive for quite awhile however. Those 2+ saves really do a great job, rending aside. But a BlackShield was what actually killed it. 

 

Prot is right. If we want to kill the Patriarch in close combat we need the best invulnerable, and armor saves we can get. I advocate for the Xenophase blade for its forced re-rolls, but think it might be necessary to add digital weapons.

 

 

 

 

Yea, the 2+ has been a rare gem in this match up. But you did it with a Black Shield?!?! Good for you. What was his set up? I have to be honest I had to pull all Black Shields from my list. When the codex came out I had 2 in my 1850, then one.... (and yea, he has a Heavy Hammer to add controversy!) but eventually I pulled them all. The Black Shield should be a 5 point upgrade to get some value added to a squad, not make it so cost prohibitive. 

 

So what did yours have? Double armed?

 

And did your Sarge have a Xenophase blade? This is another thing I modelled up but never use anymore. :/

[Sheesh Mode]

 

 

 

Fought a broodlord yesterday and I am looking forward to facing it again with my xenophase/stormshield/artificer armor Watch Captain in the future. 

 

So how did that fight go? A solo Broodlord is a very rare thing in GSC.... I do find my Watch Captain in Termie armour with Relic blade did very well too, but can't out last the ~20 ablative wounds the creature has at his disposal!

 

But in my Grey Knights batrep the Custodes actually outlasted a very large number of Genestealers. I have to admit though that their base Strength and Toughness had a lot to do with it.

 

Badly. He rolled a 6 for the Patriarch and his 'Stealer guard, then assaulted a rhino full of combi-veterans. I was planning on teleporting it across to support my drop pods. So, I dropped next to him instead, and annihilated the genestealers with just one Kill Team, but failed to kill the Patriarch because of a 2+ cover save, and its high toughness. 

 

This gave my opponent the opportunity to isolate a squad and overwhelm them with cheap bodies before the Patriarch finished them off. The terminator in the Aquila stayed alive for quite awhile however. Those 2+ saves really do a great job, rending aside. But a BlackShield was what actually killed it. 

 

Prot is right. If we want to kill the Patriarch in close combat we need the best invulnerable, and armor saves we can get. I advocate for the Xenophase blade for its forced re-rolls, but think it might be necessary to add digital weapons.

 

 

 

 

Yea, the 2+ has been a rare gem in this match up. But you did it with a Black Shield?!?! Good for you. What was his set up? I have to be honest I had to pull all Black Shields from my list. When the codex came out I had 2 in my 1850, then one.... (and yea, he has a Heavy Hammer to add controversy!) but eventually I pulled them all. The Black Shield should be a 5 point upgrade to get some value added to a squad, not make it so cost prohibitive. 

 

So what did yours have? Double armed?

 

And did your Sarge have a Xenophase blade? This is another thing I modelled up but never use anymore. :/

 

I challenged it with a librarian to protect Artemis and the Black Shield. I just give them a single power weapon (an axe in this case) and a close combat weapon. In my opinion he's priced just fine for a model that almost always gets to double its attacks during close combat. However, you have to protect him from challenges as he's not meant to go one on one with anything. That is what the Captains and Sergeants are for.

 

Honestly, this same Black Shield almost killed a Swarm Lord at full health. Black Shields are nasty, Prot.

[Prot]

uugh... okay, I'll try using one again. Seriously though... my experiences have not been paid for the model in question yet. 

[Vel'Cona]

Twisted your arm, eh? He actually made me want to dust off my Blackshield, too!

[Sheesh Mode]

He's totally not worth it in squads that do not want to be in assault. The guy is high investment, but he is also one of the reasons people claim DeathWatch can make a 'deathstar'. I have a suspicion it will become increasingly powerful as Gamesworkshop slowly nerfs the other options for 'deathstar' in the game.