[HH1.0] Legio Custodes Tactica

[Black_out]

So without having the book yet it's looking like the rule of thumb is units of 3 (I'm assuming points related) and at least one solarite gauntlet per unit so they can tackle pretty much whatever they encounter?

 

Edit: also, anyone know where I can find some bases that would pass as the Imperial palace?

Edited March 3, 2017 by Black_out

[nightwrench]

Does anyone know if we can take the knight-errants from book 6 as an HQ choice?  I did last night and the FNP and pinpoint deep strike is brutal.   The reason I ask is I am scrambling a month out from adepitcon to fill the final 300 or so points in my list.   FW is out of Inferno books and I had ordered two Coronus as well.  Whole order is back ordered.  We had 4 people order books.  It is what it is just trying to not have to paint up 3-6 more models but I might have too.

 

My list

 

Tankibune

knight-errant base with FNP

knight-errant base with FNP

 

3 Hataeron w/ pf shields

 

Sentinels with fists

Sentinels with swords

Guard with Arathisite

Guard base

 

two Caladius base

 

Atropos

 

Had shrikes everywhere and DS on the PF squads

 

My opponent had 2500 points of a battle company as Iron Hands (didn't mention this till he started taking FNP rolls)

 

5 pods that had;

Captain with command squad and all melta with a storm shield and an apoth

Iron clad dread

Venerable dread with PC

2x tactical squad with melta and combi melta

 

8 razor backs

5 tactical squads with combi-plas and plasma

1 tactical with plasma cannon

2 devestators with plasma cannons (4 each) he forgot to deploy one

2 assault squads bare

 

all squads where 5 man.

 

He had a forge lord that was part of CAD (where some of the pods came from and the two melta squads)

 

This had a Line breaker formation

1 Las cannon pred with las sponsons

a squad of 2 las cannon pred with las sponsons

Flyer with las cannon, ML and assault cannons

 

We had crazy corner deployment with 6 objectives worth random points.   He got the better deployment side as the objective where in my zone and center board.  He castled his parking lot in the back and planned to drop pod on the other objectives which he did.

 

I knew I had no chance since he had 24 obj secured units. 

 

I can go into details about how the game went if we want.  I deployed the Atropops and the Caladius together and chose master of ambush.  Then deployed 3 squads defensively to cover with shrikes.  I forced to mishaps out of three pods with the shrikes but not the melta squad.

 

It tried to pop the atropops but did 1 HP and then 5 custodies (two different squads) smashed them in CC.  I did a lot of wound shunting when I could especially from plasma fire and it worked out well. 

 

4 Plasma wounds would usually cause two failed saves because of cover or shields but I would always try to shunt all four with LoS.  Kept models alive longer.  Knowing you have a 50% chance of shunting each wound works out well with two wound models.

 

The Caladius and Atropops where slowing wrecking his parking lot.  Well to the tune of 3-4 hulls a turn.  It is a brutal fire base. I do wish I had a Coronus instead of the one knight-errant.  another moving skimmer would have been helpful.

 

The tankibune with attached knight-errant and Hetaeron Guard took one wound over three turns.  They smashed a rhino, two las preds, two tactical squads a forgelord and devastator squad.  They ate tons of plasma and vindi rounds.

 

I lost 9 custodies and one grav tank.  I had single model custodies wrecking 5 man tactical squads in CC.  Couldn't kill them all in one round but it was amazing.  I lost in the end on objectives on turn 5.  He had to many things sitting on the final three for me to get back too. 

 

At the end he had one predator, 5 pods an immobile iron clad, the venerable dread, the flyer and two razorbacks and three tactical marines.  The my shield and pf squads were undamaged and an immobile Caladius left and the knight moving back to take back field obj.  Turn 6 would have been interesting.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The thing with knights errant is, that while they can be very good, you literally can't win the game after it dies. Which sucks

[Charlo]

Knights Errant are perfectly legal in a Talons list! Fluffy even! Malcador would surely be sending an agent of his own along to their missions.

 

The thing with knights errant is, that while they can be very good, you literally can't win the game after it dies. Which sucks

 

This isn't true. Some of the Oaths do not require the Knight Errant to survive. Protector, for example is worth 2VP and only states that a different IC must survive.

 

Which, I'm pretty sure the Tankibune could do a good job of :D

[nightwrench]

I was thinknig about this and I didn't play the objective or the terrain very well.  We had  a table with a ton of ruins and most of the objectives where in ruins.  I should have taken destroyer of cities and sat in ruins and waited for him to come to me.  3+ cover saves would have been a huge benefit.  I was worried about the vindicator line breaker formation but the Calidius(es) and the knight would have targeted them as a priority.

 

I also need to write a note that simply says "lightning strikes" and pin it to my chest.

[1ncarnadine]

A note on the Knights Errant and TotE: I think this was from the Talons seminar at the Weekender, during Q&A someone asked if it was fluffy to run Knights-Errant with TotE and Alan Bligh and John French responded with hard "no's." They're the Agents of Malcador (not the Emperor), and are incredibly unlikely to ever be working with Custodians or Sisters. 

 

RAW it's fine, though. But if you were wondering on the fluff angle, there it is.

 

edit: they could even have objectives at odds with each other, so there's an interesting possibility for Loyalist vs Custodes scenarios where, say, the Sisters of Silence are trying to capture a psyker but a Knight-Errant has other plans for an individual.

Edited March 5, 2017 by LetsYouDown

[nightwrench]

A note on the Knights Errant and TotE: I think this was from the Talons seminar at the Weekender, during Q&A someone asked if it was fluffy to run Knights-Errant with TotE and Alan Bligh and John French responded with hard "no's." They're the Agents of Malcador (not the Emperor), and are incredibly unlikely to ever be working with Custodians or Sisters. 

 

RAW it's fine, though. But if you were wondering on the fluff angle, there it is.

 

edit: they could even have objectives at odds with each other, so there's an interesting possibility for Loyalist vs Custodes scenarios where, say, the Sisters of Silence are trying to capture a psyker but a Knight-Errant has other plans for an individual.

 

Or they just realized pin-point deep strike with bonus objectives for an elite army is scary...

[Charlo]

It literally says "Agent of the Emperor" in the Knights Errant profile rules 

 

But yes I can see that angle.

 

Nothing to say Malc wouldn't dispatch one to go in and grab something else while the golden boys decapitate the enemy....

[Withershadow]

It does make sense, in the books Malcador is doing sneaky crap in the background that the Emperor may not approve of but is for His own good. I can definitely see Custodes having an issue with that attitude.

[Fallen11]

Another weekend, another player decided to face custodes in our Club.

3,5k of IW vs 3k of Custodes

 

CUstodes had:

valdor+4 heteron in transport

2x3 custodes in transports

3 custodes deepstriking

caladus

tankibune+mama sister+5 sisters in theyr trasnport

3 bikes

 

IW had:

pride of legion

2x 5 terminators with pf and comby plasmas in land riders

2x 10 veterans with 2x plasmagun and sniper(1 in rhino) outflanking

2x5 plasma support squads in land raiders

2x xyphon

castellax with darkfire cannon

bunker AV15 with 8 lascanon iron havocs+khir valen inside and relay for +1 for reserves

sicaran with lascannons

 

 

Game ended on turn 6, IW player was tabled, custodes lost 3 transports 4 custodes and few sisters from squad.

Despite IW player making his list to counter custodes and having 500pts more, he was tabled, and killed what...cca 800pts

 

So far custodes in our Club are 4-0, anahilating anything they faced, and in 3 of those games, they played with 500pts less.

[Slips]

I honestly fail to see how youre discussing Custodes Tactics with posts like these.

 

So either talk tactica and be on-topic or move on.

[Rabidbunneh]

Ouch. I've got a game on Wednesday with a 3k list, I'm tempted to "soften" the list with some Sisters of Silence.

[Raktra]

Partially posting to get updated on the thread, partially because the "Custodes are unstoppable wah" posts are tedious. Watch them get killed to death by one of my local group:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e0EMLaNHiHA&feature=youtu.be

[Fallen11]

Sub par custodes list+allied marines that basically are just cannon fodder, I stopped at that.

[IronDrake28]

Sub par custodes list+allied marines that basically are just cannon fodder, I stopped at that.

 

So you're ignoring it? Seems to me that you'd always want as much evidence as possible when comparing armies.

[lanceqi]

Sub par custodes list+allied marines that basically are just cannon fodder, I stopped at that.

I see two xiphon fighters in IW list. What was the custodes' countermeasure to those?

[Charlo]

 

Sub par custodes list+allied marines that basically are just cannon fodder, I stopped at that.

I see two xiphon fighters in IW list. What was the custodes' countermeasure to those?

 

Flare shields on Fast Vehicles with High AV.

 

Oh, and 2+ saves.

[Fallen11]

He went in mind with xiphons 2tl lascannons and 2 S8 ap2 shots that force them to reroll jink saves, might be good vs bikes and transports(easier to get side shots with flyers also), seems quite valid.

@Irondrake - no one is ignoring anything, but taking subpar list and loosing really proves nothing. Not getting stuff like tankibune&bikes which are one of the best unit in army list, yet taking stuff like 20 tacticals, which just die and do nothing. I am not really sure what that battlereport proved? Allied legion really gives nothing to custodes, and there is really no point in taking it from tactical standpoint. Give it a bit of time,till tournament reports start rolling in, and you will see how many of those custodes take legion as allies. And also don't take stuff like bikes&tankibune in theyr list.

I mean, I could tell to my custodes player, please just take all on foot custodes, bunch them together, I will take few vindicators and kill most of your army turn 1. What would that prove really? That you can win with 1000pts vs 3000pts of custods, so lets cal them UP? Or maybe I would be tactical genius who wins vs 300% pts more of custodes?

[Raktra]

Sub par custodes list+allied marines that basically are just cannon fodder, I stopped at that.

Luckily most of us also stop at your anecdotal whining, so we're all on the same page at least.

[Fallen11]

[Rabidbunneh]

Can we all calm down a bit? I think it might be worth compiling a list that "should" counter custodes and work out how we can work around it instead of disagreeing with list quality.

 

I'm playing against a Stonewall list this Wednesday and I will post a batrep up. I've also got games lined up against an Admech list that is quite strong (played by our club's most competitive player) and maybe Night Lords the week after. I might be able to get a game in next Monday against something random,so I'll see how that goes.

 

As far as counters, S10, Primarchs, S:D, a lot of bodies/tanks and I think Sniper veterans are things we will struggle with.

 

I might try to write an AL list later on today that could try to counter Custodes.

[Cryptix]

So, how do Salamanders do against Custodes? I've seen a guy going 2k vs them and able to actually get to objectives with hammernators in spartans, though not much else.

[Charlo]

So, how do Salamanders do against Custodes? I've seen a guy going 2k vs them and able to actually get to objectives with hammernators in spartans, though not much else.

 

Maybe that's one for the Salamanders thread.... :P

[nightwrench]

What is up with all of the anger and hatred?  

 

Will the army be strong with all of their toys?  Yes probably.  Are their counters?  Yes.  Is deployment and dice rolls a major factor as well as mission?  Yes.  I feel like all the anti-Eldar hate is back.

[Withershadow]

 

Sub par custodes list+allied marines that basically are just cannon fodder, I stopped at that.

Luckily most of us also stop at your anecdotal whining, so we're all on the same page at least.

 

Fallen11 can be overly negative, sure, but the video you posted just further proves his "anecdotal whining".  You can obviously tell that Custodes list was playing with a very very heavy handicap. ~700 points of Legion allies, none of the real power pieces, and transports for models that can freely teleport.

 

So the consensus seems to be forming... if you play Custodes lots of points down and/or as an allied detachment only, they are manageable.