Prot Mini-Rep: Deathwatch vs. Blood Angels 1850

[Prot]

Hey guys,

I want to just do a very quick batrep... not really a full batrep because I've been experimenting a lot of different units lately and I also have some time restraints on me and as well I sold my Deathwatch (painted) army.

So that being said I won't take many pics as I am re-painting the army from scratch and I hate unpainted batreps.

That being said I wanted to do a quick reference for this game. We played an 1850 Maelstrom and for ONCE I got to play against Space Marines (very rare here). I mean at my local store there are a lot of marine players but they kind of hide out amongst themselves. But for tournie play not as much as you'd like to see. (Bloody xenos edition!)

Back to the game... it will be a brief overview. In this experiment I took my normal CAD + BSSF, and I changed the list so many times I accidentally left out my Stalker Bolter squad, so I had to play 1850 without them.

The true experiment was I wanted to play more games with the Culexus (I haven't used him in this army specifically and not played him in any army for quite a while, probably Ultra's last.)

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So from memory the Blood Angels were using Traitor's hate formation. It actually looked okay on paper, as he had a "CAD" getting him some ObSec with Scouts parked in a bush, and a good sized squad of Grav Bikes, Multi Melta Attack Bikes, a bout 3 Pods of Troops with a Libby and .... the BEEF of the army was Dante and his magical ballet of pretty men in angel outfits which can Deep Strike and then Assault! Scary stuff.

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I did get first turn, he failed to grab it. The game was VERY much back and forth. I had two big key moments, and one scary moment:

1. I had a key alpha strike. I unleashed solo Missile Termies, Dread, and (believe it or not) a Rhino with an Infernus Heavy Bolter in it at his Multi Melta bikes.

The main alpha though was the Pod with Captain, and Frag Cannon unleashing on the Grav Bikers:

- This opening salvo may have saved me.

- all but one biker dies, all but one Multi Melta Attack Bike dies. (it did take all the forces I had on the board to do it.) Ironically the last surviving members of each squad would live up until the last turn! (those boys know how to Jink!)

2. I FAIL to get KEY reserves in on T2. Reminding me for the Millionth time you cannot take this army without some form of reserve manipulation ( a bad design element of the BSSF).

This is scary because in his T2, his Dante, pods, and 2 large squads of Sanguinary Guard come in and can assault. They get good reserve rolls, re rolls and only 1D6 Deviation!

The Sanguinary Guard can and do assault the turn they come in. I got one squad shot up pretty good, and the Sanquinary Guard came in and just annihilated me.

3. My failure for reserves set up a bizzarre situation.....

When I failed both rolls for my Pod + Aquila, I knew it was game over since I just watched two of his Sanquinary guard wipe some of my stuff... .so in an act of pure desperation I took my Infernus Hvy Bolter Kill Team, and "Angelis Beacon'd" them across into the heart of the kill zone without deviation.

The funny thing is I was wishing so badly at this point that I had not taken that Infernus because I desperately needed a Frag Cannon. The Infernus template hit 7 of his Tacticals, and I rolled four 6's !! These would have been rends, and with the Frag cannon I would have had 14 hits.

He failed enough saves, that the rest of the Infernus squad weapons mopped up the Tacticals giving me some breathing space, but what about the Sanguinary Guard? This is where the second big desperate act comes in.....

^This guy made Assassinorium Great Again!

4. The Culexus did 'okay' here but ripping buffs away was one thing, he just did okay enough to assist in turn 1 with killing his libby and assisting in the kill of the squad ,but the big moment is next turn...

In the next turn the Culexus would wander up (north of this picture) and get 6 shoots from my psychic pool at his Sanquinary guard which were about to gank my Deathwatch Captain after smoking one of my squads.

The Culexus was pro. He leveled his pistol and wacked 5 guard!!! This left only Dante in the squad. The other Sanguinary squad was in CC I believe at this point.

5. The Captain had a brave Deathwatch with a Stormshield who took two blows from Sanquinary Axes before falling. I made a key decision to try to hold on for one more turn..... I decide the Captain is the only one who can handle his turn's worth of attacks, and I take them all on the captain, he tanks all the 3+ power weapons and of all the axe attacks the Halo saved all but 1!!! Close call.

6. The rest of my squads come in (finally). But the Infernus squad is basically one shotted by Dante... no joke, that guy came in, wound up his axe and murdered the whole kill team.... BUT that left him standing in the open. (when your Deathwatch, you gotta know when to die.)

In retaliation my Captain's remnant squad, and everything around him including the Culexus let it rip at Dante. He saved so much stuff... ridiculous. It was a simple special ammo poison round that saw Dante fail his 2+ save and die for Warlord kill. This gave me the lead for the first time in the game....

7. The game was winding down. I had a few scattered units, and a few solo Termies rolling around, but had managed to kill off the rest of his army except for the Pods, and the scouts in the corner (which had no shot/effect all game).

With that he conceded and what started as a very back and forth game got very hairy for a while and then concluded with the death of his Warlord.

Conclusions:

- Infernus: Still not sold. I thought it was doing okay in a Rhino, but because Deathwatch like to inherently get close and use every shot possible, this felt like a bad play.

- Culexus. One of the stars of the game. Not that the Blood Angels really relied on anything Psychic wise, the Culexus was key in crippling one of his 2+ save Sanguinary guard.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Prot

[Jolemai]

Doesn't sound like he used a Demi-Company as ours doesn't have ObSec. Looking at what you said his army was comprised of, it sounds like a Battleforged army using a CAD with the Dante Formation in tow...

 

Interesting use of the Cullexus, one that's often ignored given his anti-psyker capabilities.

[Prot]

Doesn't sound like he used a Demi-Company as ours doesn't have ObSec. Looking at what you said his army was comprised of, it sounds like a Battleforged army using a CAD with the Dante Formation in tow...

 

Interesting use of the Cullexus, one that's often ignored given his anti-psyker capabilities.

 

Sorry you're right. I don't know what I was thinking.. it was a CAD + formation. :)

[Jolemai]

Doesn't sound like he used a Demi-Company as ours doesn't have ObSec. Looking at what you said his army was comprised of, it sounds like a Battleforged army using a CAD with the Dante Formation in tow...

Interesting use of the Cullexus, one that's often ignored given his anti-psyker capabilities.

Sorry you're right. I don't know what I was thinking.. it was a CAD + formation.

Don't worry about it :) I was, however, going to ask for his copy of the book for purely academic purposes...

[Prot]

Haha.. .yea he's a long time Blood Angel player but he's been a little disheartened because the Xenos have been giving him some serious struggles. He figured this would be a better pace and I rarely get to play against Marines.

 

He's been trying some of the formations from that book. I actually really was impressed by Dante. He reminded me of a survivable, speedy Khârn with a backpack. Very killy indeed. He was almost too killy as it would leave him in the open almost every round he ran into something.

[Vel'Cona]

The new BA stuff actually adds a lot of utility, especially stacked with the older releases from Shield of Baal. Glad to see it on the table, though they're not my first choice for purging!

It's too bad you didn't get a pic of Dante & Pals on the drop, I've been wanting to see someone use that Formation since I read about it.

[Prot]

Sorry Vel. I think he's used it a few times now. I was talking to him after and I said it was almost too brutal, especially with Dante in the squad because they'd wipe an thing I had just by looking at it. Then he'd be in theopen and subject to my big guns. His CC abo,it was very impressiv though and I told him that Dante reminded me of a survivable Khârn with a jump pack... just brutal.

 

I obviously had some key saves with my sarge's whield and then the captains halo or I was toast.

[Vel'Cona]

Yeah Dante is very nasty. Really the only downside to the Golden Host is it's tough to get a Sanguinary Priest or Librarian around to hand out FnP/Invul saves to the Sanguinary Guard. I almost feel like the Sanguinor might be a better choice than Dante to spread around the killing power a bit more, though I despise the model/concept.

Did I mention I used to play BA?

[Jolemai]

It's too bad you didn't get a pic of Dante & Pals on the drop, I've been wanting to see someone use that Formation since I read about it.

Pity there's not a forum for things like that

[Sheesh Mode]

Prot, consider grabbing an Aegis defense line with a comm's relay to deploy in the middle of the board. Why sit in the back when you can have cover in the open? 

Edit: 
I fought Dante right awhile ago as well. Bloody monster chewed through three of my veterans before the squad could put him down. He was by himself! Yet, still a sufficient threat to force the aquila against him and the TLC-TDAs nearby. Very, very frustrating match up. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Sheesh Mode

[Master Avoghai]

IMO the infernus suffers from the weakness of the HB in this meta. Heavy 3 doesn't reflect its status of heavy machine gun.

 

The HB should be salvo 3/5 S5AP4 36" : THAT would fit its status better andwould justify the cost

[Prot]

Honestly, I would take it if it was just 5 shots at 36" and the flamer attachment. (I really think it still wouldn't see much action from it at 6 shots! I believe it falls under Autocannon syndrome of not really being that great at anything in particular that isn't already heavily covered in the army)

 

A Terminator can take a rending Assault Cannon with better Strength, and the chance at rend from 2 feet away for the same cost.

 

The reason I say that is the Frag Cannon is THE short range option. It is also the ideal flamer option. It is the best 12" option. At 13" and back, now the proposed change to Infernus starts to look attractive.

 

Like I keep saying, how many players do you see loading up on Heavy Bolters? Heck when's the last edition you saw people taking them? They should have been altered years ago, but we all have them and it wouldn't sell.... unless you altered them physically (IE: Underslung flamer attachment).

 

I don't know what else you can do with it... certainly in its current incarnation you won't see it at tournaments. I just can't see it. Even with proposed changes, it's a so-so weapon taking up valuable points... I dunno.. maybe add special rounds to it? The Poison shells as is just makes it far too expensive.

[Jolemai]

As far as I can see, the heavy bolter part gives you the range advantage whilst still having a short range/charge deterrent thanks to the flamer component. Perhaps its niche is for static play and like all heavy bolters, when taken in bulk (see HB Devs or land speeders with dual HBs).

[Prot]

As far as I can see, the heavy bolter part gives you the range advantage whilst still having a short range/charge deterrent thanks to the flamer component. Perhaps its niche is for static play and like all heavy bolters, when taken in bulk (see HB Devs or land speeders with dual HBs).

 

But a marine standing still, playing the back field can be just as effective with a Heavy Bolter. Why don't we see them?

 

The problem is two fold. 1. Heavy Bolters don't do any significant damage or role. 2. You're paying for a squad full of dudes that aren't cheap because they have special ammo.

 

Honestly after trying it for 3 games, I'm pulling it out. I have come to the conclusion it might be the least efficient way to field a Kill Team.

 

If I want that role filled, it will be served with my 'goto' of 1 Cyclone Missile Launder Termie in the backfield. He will do more damage, and present a very difficult targeting decision for the super shooty Xenos lists I see.

 

Otherwise the very best fit I've played on table for the Infernus (and this is marginal) is putting one with a squad of Stalker Bolters. At least you have full squad capability at 30". And if you're forced to move, something can fire normally.

 

I have 3 models armed with Infernus Bolters. I love the model, I love the idea. I think I'm chopping the arms off of two of those models and slapping Shotguns on. I'll keep one for my Stalker squad but again, not very probable since I'm always trying to find a way to squeeze a Frag Cannon into a squad.

 

Trust me when I say this, if there's anyone here that wants to find more function in our armoury it's me.

[Jolemai]

I realise you have a very unforgiving meta, but I suppose it depends on what you're after and what you're satisfied with. That said, I still happily use plasma pistols so...

[Prot]

Very true... a buddy came over with Grey Knights and Tau as a list and I think to myself... what the heck am I doing with this army against this stuff? lol

 

But yea, as is often true with this game; mileage varies.

[Master Avoghai]

significant damage or role. 2. You're paying for a squad full of dudes that aren't cheap because they have special ammo.

Also 3. You pay 20pts for 2 ten-points options whereas you cannot use the 2 options in the same turn. Points cost are calibrated considering how you can use the option during the game. You cannot add together 2 values if those 2 options cannot be used together.

 

 

Like I keep saying, how many players do you see loading up on Heavy Bolters? Heck when's the last edition you saw people taking them? They should have been altered years ago, but we all have them and it wouldn't sell.... unless you altered them physically (IE: Underslung flamer attachment).

 

I don't know what else you can do with it... certainly in its current incarnation you won't see it at tournaments. I just can't see it. Even with proposed changes, it's a so-so weapon taking up valuable points... I dunno.. maybe add special rounds to it? The Poison shells as is just makes it far too expensive.

When I say it should be salvo 3/5 it's for ALL heavy bolter in the game, not just the inferno variant :D

 

It would also make tactical squads more useful as well as some predators or LS variants