SickSix Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I have plenty of 40k to finish before I really start on 30k but I do have the Calth and Prospero box sets. I have assembled one test mini of each set (MKIV and MKIII). At first I wanted to build each box as a separate force; BaC into Salamanders and BoP as Thousand Sons. But after playing with lists on Battlescribe I found that each box just barely gets to 1000 points. I am not going to be able to also invest in a bunch of FW resin tanks and such to boost those two lists to 2k(+). However, if I combine both boxes and buy some bits I can get right up to 2k point list. But, that's an all infantry list with one AV model (the contemptor). That seems like a bad idea in a game of 30k.. Is it? I mean that also seems very fluffy for a 30k army, just a mass of PA with a few Terminators and a dread. *Edit* I am going to do Salamanders if I do decide to combine both boxes. So the list summary is a follows: 1 Praetor (Cataphractii Armor) 1 Centurion 1 Contemptor 1 Terminator Squad (Cataphractii) 1 Terminator Squad (Tartaros) 2x Tactical Squads (15 marines ea.) 1 Breacher Squad (10 man) 1 Support Squad (10 man) 1 Heavy Support Squad (10 man) With the wargear I have selected now the list is 1922 pts. Is this at least a good starting point? It would take less further investment to flesh this list out than it would two other lists that are half the size. I don't own any AoD books so I am just having to rely on Battlescribe and the rules I can glean from that. Any constructive feedback welcome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cohort Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I would probably build a 10 man veteran squad with heavy flamers, not only could you mix in some other bits to represent gear veterans have acquired but salamander marksmen vets have rending heavy flamers that wound marines on 2+. Also nothing stops you from using plastic vehicle models for 30k, mars pattern was around at that point just seen as lesser quality than other options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 It's not a bad starting point, although it is lacking a bit of flavour. I'm of the opinion that you should probably finalise what Legion you're going to do (if you only do one) first, as that will heavily dictate the playstyle and units you have access to. Footslogging armies are generally not very powerful, as there are innumerable ways to clear infantry off the board in droves and you seriously lack maneuverability. I also find spending every turn moving masses of troops and not getting to use something cool extremely boring. But, as is so often the case, if you enjoy this kind of thing - then don't let me put you off. As Black Cohort said, you can happily incorporate plastic tanks from 40k. Drop pods too. Overall, all this infantry is far from a bad start. There are many different builds that can incorporate these models in many different Legions. For a singular game though, it wouldn't be very interesting to use. Consider Tanks, Legion specific units and Rites of War before you finalise your decision. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickSix Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 I would probably build a 10 man veteran squad with heavy flamers, not only could you mix in some other bits to represent gear veterans have acquired but salamander marksmen vets have rending heavy flamers that wound marines on 2+. Also nothing stops you from using plastic vehicle models for 30k, mars pattern was around at that point just seen as lesser quality than other options. Ah see that's stuff I don't know because I don't have the books (or don't know how to browse battlescribe well enough). So maybe swap the support flamer squad for a Veteran squad? And on vehicles, honestly I think I own all the GW vehicles I want right now. And some of them are painted generically enough to be proxied into any army. (3 LR, 3 Predators, 3 Vindis, 5 pods, 4 rhinos/razorbacks, 1 Storm Raven, and 1 Fellblade conversion) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cohort Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I would probably build a 10 man veteran squad with heavy flamers, not only could you mix in some other bits to represent gear veterans have acquired but salamander marksmen vets have rending heavy flamers that wound marines on 2+. Also nothing stops you from using plastic vehicle models for 30k, mars pattern was around at that point just seen as lesser quality than other options. Ah see that's stuff I don't know because I don't have the books (or don't know how to browse battlescribe well enough). So maybe swap the support flamer squad for a Veteran squad? And on vehicles, honestly I think I own all the GW vehicles I want right now. And some of them are painted generically enough to be proxied into any army. (3 LR, 3 Predators, 3 Vindis, 5 pods, 4 rhinos/razorbacks, 1 Storm Raven, and 1 Fellblade conversion) I would shrink the 2 tactical squads to either 1 20 man footslogging + apothecary for FnP or 2 10 man squads in rhinos. Salamander support squad with flamers puts stupid numbers of wounds on things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickSix Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 It's not a bad starting point, although it is lacking a bit of flavour. I'm of the opinion that you should probably finalise what Legion you're going to do (if you only do one) first, as that will heavily dictate the playstyle and units you have access to. Footslogging armies are generally not very powerful, as there are innumerable ways to clear infantry off the board in droves and you seriously lack maneuverability. I also find spending every turn moving masses of troops and not getting to use something cool extremely boring. But, as is so often the case, if you enjoy this kind of thing - then don't let me put you off. As Black Cohort said, you can happily incorporate plastic tanks from 40k. Drop pods too. Overall, all this infantry is far from a bad start. There are many different builds that can incorporate these models in many different Legions. For a singular game though, it wouldn't be very interesting to use. Consider Tanks, Legion specific units and Rites of War before you finalise your decision. Thanks. I have edited first post to show that I would go with Salamanders if I do combine both boxes. I know they have the Firedrakes and the Pyro guys for legion specific stuff. In my post above I list my plastic vehicle assets that I already own (all painted either black or silver so fairly generic). 5 Pods would definitely improve initial mobility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokkorex Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 you could count the cataphractii as firedrakes if you want, that would eat up some more points. if you want them to more look the part, you could scour bitz sites for scaled cloaks from the dark elves range, and source some thunder hammers and storm shields. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Using your tank collection you could make a pride of the legion veteran army, plenty of vets, terminators and land raiders Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I got 1500 out of calthy by making a support and a heavy squad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickSix Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 you could count the cataphractii as firedrakes if you want, that would eat up some more points. if you want them to more look the part, you could scour bitz sites for scaled cloaks from the dark elves range, and source some thunder hammers and storm shields. I have already formed a wish list from Spell Crow. That have some great Salamander themed bits. And I will look at Firedrakes for sure. Using your tank collection you could make a pride of the legion veteran army, plenty of vets, terminators and land raiders And I forgot I also have a LR Ares conversion that could easily double as a Typhon. I will have to look at the Rites of War and see what kind of lists those are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroclast91 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Always glad to hear the XVIIITH may be getting a new member I had the same problem working up a list when I got my calth box and until I finally bit the bullet and bought some resin I had planned to run two vet tac squads paired with a seeker squad and flamer support squad with the cataphractii as Firedrakes but then my will power failed me and I bought stuff ;) and now I can't seem to stop Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Finalise your Legion, don't start with two. Imo MKIII armour is more reminiscent of Salamanders then Thousand Sons but I could be wrong. Build up the Tactical Squads as Veterans. Two - Three units of 10 in Rhinos with Special and Combi weapons thrown in. From there think about unique units, FW Tanks, a Primarch, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickSix Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 Finalise your Legion, don't start with two. Imo MKIII armour is more reminiscent of Salamanders then Thousand Sons but I could be wrong. Build up the Tactical Squads as Veterans. Two - Three units of 10 in Rhinos with Special and Combi weapons thrown in. From there think about unique units, FW Tanks, a Primarch, etc. I have decided to do Salamanders for 30k. I am going to save 1K Sons for a 40k army. I like the 40k Rubrics more than heresy 1k Sons. FW stuff is not anywhere in my near future. I will have to proxy in my 40k plastic vehicles if I need armor. But with about $65 in bits from Spellcrow I can really trick out my plastic dudes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4564986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I would make an army with each box, count the termis as special unit as above then get a primarch each to boost competitivity Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4565102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanceqi Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Salamanders are a wonderful choice, but sadly FW hasn't released the iconic shields so if you want to modify your BoP Tartaros TA into firedrakes you will have some troubles. And they have the access to inferno pistol but cannot have a Morritat...What a shame. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4565114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cohort Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Salamanders are a wonderful choice, but sadly FW hasn't released the iconic shields so if you want to modify your BoP Tartaros TA into firedrakes you will have some troubles. And they have the access to inferno pistol but cannot have a Morritat...What a shame. The FW firedrakes kit has storm shields, but they haven't been released as a stand alone kit. But the firedrakes are beautiful models, if you are playing Salamanders and can afford FW toys then you should definitely get some. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4565250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroclast91 Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 The one thing I would recommend that has become my best friend as a modeller of salamanders is press molds I got my hands on the FW salamanders contemptor and Vulkan and made multiple press molds from the scales on kessares mantle and the scales on the dreads legs and it turned making pretty decent scale cloaks (imo) from a job of hours to minutes and makes it so much less soul crushing should you happen to have big dumb fingers that tend to frack up your gs ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4565460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Psst: you can have a mortitat with the rulebook allies chart, it allows 2HQ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4565486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroclast91 Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 it's not the number of slots that keeps you from running a Moritat the Salamanders simply do not have or allow them or destroyers which kinda sucks but I suppose it's all in the name of balance and keeping it fluffy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4565551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 My edition of the age of darkness legions book says: Of course, such tactics can only be morally used vs knight houses or eldar D spams Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4565648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroclast91 Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Very interesting and good to know as well and now I have a reasonable excuse to build a moritat just in case of said xenos/ knight shenanigans ;) I guess that's why you gotta stay up to date on these books Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4565757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Next week got a game vs tau, hope they won't push me into that arms race Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327899-how-to-use-bac-and-bop-box-sets/#findComment-4565803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.