Codex: Imperial Agents

[Noeh]

All this talk about precision shots made me go back and look up the weapon. Sadly now that I know the right rules, my exorcists just got a nerf..but the precision shots buffs them up again.

My group was convinced that the exorcist shot d6 small blasts. So I've been playing with them like that this entire time.

Holy Emperor! You found a stockpile of incindiary Exorcist ordinance from the Age of Apostasy?!

Well my sisters are just fire obsessed ex-wolf women. Overkill and fire makes the Allfather proud apparently.

[A.T.]

Holy Boltguns! Could you imagine D6 s8 ap1 small blasts!!! 

Forgeworld scorpius whirlwind is d3+1 s8 ap3 small blasts - with barrage too, on an AV13/12/10 chassis for less points than an exorcist - so it does exist. You can get ignores cover on it too.

[Noeh]

 

Holy Boltguns! Could you imagine D6 s8 ap1 small blasts!!! 

Forgeworld scorpius whirlwind is d3+1 s8 ap3 small blasts - with barrage too, on an AV13/12/10 chassis for less points than an exorcist - so it does exist. You can get ignores cover on it too.

 

 

That's probably why they were so confused on the rules.

[bkde]

Yay HF BSS in TLMM spam!

[Ficinus]

I don't see how the conclave could be a typo, unless you think it meant 3-10 models, but that would feel really strange, buying models out of units for a formation. I think 100 Arcoflagellants with Uriah was the intent...

 

Well, maybe not exactly that.

[Beams]

I don't see how the conclave could be a typo, unless you think it meant 3-10 models, but that would feel really strange, buying models out of units for a formation. I think 100 Arcoflagellants with Uriah was the intent...

 

Well, maybe not exactly that.

Nah, the intent is 10-15 crusaders to tank so the remaining 90 or so arcos can kill anything in their path.

 

Arcos were already our hardest hitting unit (others will say DCA, but they are more situational. And cost more.) I generally have 3 squads of 3 crusaders, a priest and 7 arcos. Depending on indicative I do reroll saves (if they go before me) or reroll wounds (if I go first). With ws 5, hatred an STR 5 I generally end up with 28-32 wounds. I've killed Wolf Lords with Thundershields, Dual Carnifexes, Genestealer Deathstar all in one turn. Sure, 2+ saves dodge a lot of damage, and 3+ saves would be better suited to DCAs, but I play against a lot of things with invulnerable saves (such as demons) and find that forcing that many saves will pretty much wipe anything.

The one good (for sisters) thing is now I can combine my three squads and get the arcos a threerollable 5+ so that they can last in combat. So 9 crusaders, 21 arcos, Uriah, a priest with litanies and an eviscerator and most likely my canoness.

 

Math speaking that's 11.4 misses out of 110 on your charge, and with rerolls, on 10.7 fail to wound out of 98.6, leaving 87.9 Ap - wounds against tough 4.

A reroll able 2+ will still take only 2.4 wounds on that opening salvo, but that's what the eviscerators are for.

Also. If my math is wrong, lemme know haha

[Ullr Direfang]

Just have to say I just noticed this and am kind of excited and at the same time nervous. It will be my first purchase from GW in over a year, as I was massively upset about the "death of Fantasy". Will be interesting to see what happens.

[KiwiBen]

 

I don't see how the conclave could be a typo, unless you think it meant 3-10 models, but that would feel really strange, buying models out of units for a formation. I think 100 Arcoflagellants with Uriah was the intent...

 

Well, maybe not exactly that.

Nah, the intent is 10-15 crusaders to tank so the remaining 90 or so arcos can kill anything in their path.

 

Arcos were already our hardest hitting unit (others will say DCA, but they are more situational. And cost more.) I generally have 3 squads of 3 crusaders, a priest and 7 arcos. Depending on indicative I do reroll saves (if they go before me) or reroll wounds (if I go first). With ws 5, hatred an STR 5 I generally end up with 28-32 wounds. I've killed Wolf Lords with Thundershields, Dual Carnifexes, Genestealer Deathstar all in one turn. Sure, 2+ saves dodge a lot of damage, and 3+ saves would be better suited to DCAs, but I play against a lot of things with invulnerable saves (such as demons) and find that forcing that many saves will pretty much wipe anything.

The one good (for sisters) thing is now I can combine my three squads and get the arcos a threerollable 5+ so that they can last in combat. So 9 crusaders, 21 arcos, Uriah, a priest with litanies and an eviscerator and most likely my canoness.

 

Math speaking that's 11.4 misses out of 110 on your charge, and with rerolls, on 10.7 fail to wound out of 98.6, leaving 87.9 Ap - wounds against tough 4.

A reroll able 2+ will still take only 2.4 wounds on that opening salvo, but that's what the eviscerators are for.

Also. If my math is wrong, lemme know haha

 

 

 

Bonus points for an =][= with Psychtroke and Rad grenades (and some kind of handy Warlord Trait), just to ensure that you thoroughly kill whatever it is that you aim the unit at.

[Drider]

not to mention a 2nd warlord trait

[Ramza]

I know goon listed all the changes but was there any chance that Penitent Engines had a small change? Points reduction? 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

No change to them, to be fair at 20 points less than a dread with 2 heavy flamers and rage seems a fair trade for the reduced armour, perhaps though they will get an attack buff like dreads did eventually though.

[Beams]

No change to them, to be fair at 20 points less than a dread with 2 heavy flamers and rage seems a fair trade for the reduced armour, perhaps though they will get an attack buff like dreads did eventually though.

They are way less survivable. A meltas pen on a 4+ explodes them, and i think they have 1 less attack (someone want to check this) than a fully kitted melee dreadnought, and they lack the ability to take other weapons, and therefore a little utility. That said, they do have a 6++.

 

They aren't perfect. And they die way too easily. But if they can touch anything, it's dead and the two heavy flamers burn xenos good.

[Noeh]

No change to them, to be fair at 20 points less than a dread with 2 heavy flamers and rage seems a fair trade for the reduced armour, perhaps though they will get an attack buff like dreads did eventually though.

 

Maybe if they weren't also open-topped. They explode at a swift breeze unless you take entirely too many of them.

[Beams]

 

 

No change to them, to be fair at 20 points less than a dread with 2 heavy flamers and rage seems a fair trade for the reduced armour, perhaps though they will get an attack buff like dreads did eventually though.

Maybe if they weren't also open-topped. They explode at a swift breeze unless you take entirely too many of them.

A single meltashots at bs 4, in meltas range, has a 30.25% chance of straight up murdering a pengine. And at full range it's 16.5%. That's about a 1/6.

 

Two meltashots at bs 4, in meltas range, have a 60.5% chance of blowing up a single pengine.

 

Three almost guaranties one dead, with it being reasonably possible to blow through three pengine with only 3 meltas shots.

 

Of course that's disregarding the shield of faith 6++, but the idea is basically that any weapon with a AP of 1 will destroy it quick. ap 2 not quite as quick, but just as easy, and AP 2 tends to be longer range, which is rough since pengines are foot sloggers.

 

My math could b wrong, but Ive lost an entire 3 woman squad to a meltas command squad of Scions in one shot.

[Noeh]

Basically you need a large group of penitent engines to make them worth it. I've heard 9 or so is a good number....but that means investing in 9 distraction carnifexes. And if you have to spend that much on distraction carnifexes..something is horribly wrong.

[A.T.]

They are way less survivable. A meltas pen on a 4+ explodes them, and i think they have 1 less attack (someone want to check this) than a fully kitted melee dreadnought, and they lack the ability to take other weapons, and therefore a little utility. That said, they do have a 6++

Penitents and generic weapon & cc dreads have the same number of initial attacks, with the penitent adding one extra one on the charge. But it's all at I3 so if you charge into a regular dreadnought you'll get wrecked more often than not - something like the old 95pt 'durandal' cc dread would be a risky prospect for a whole unit of penitents.

 

They can work (especially with the new grenade rules) if your opponent doesn't have much anti-armour, but you wouldn't want to run into a dreadnought formation. Their main problem aside from durability is just the time it takes to walk them up the board if your opponent isn't coming to you.

[Drider]

 

Hooray, new and contradictory information!

 

Even if your restricted to taking units from one or the other in separate CADs it's not that much of a tax to run double cad to have celestine and 6e codex units in one cad and a priest and C:IA units as the other cad.

[tvih]

I've wanted a mixed battle conclave for some time. Who knows when I'll actually get one, if ever. I could imagine something like 2 Crusaders, 2 Death Cult Assassins and 6 Arco-flagellants, plus a priest and perhaps an Inquisitor for good measure. Maybe even servitors. Though there's the usual problem of transporting them if using C:AS, especially with the rulebook FAQ regarding battle brother transport deployment. Would be easiest to field using C:I I guess.

[Beams]

 

They are way less survivable. A meltas pen on a 4+ explodes them, and i think they have 1 less attack (someone want to check this) than a fully kitted melee dreadnought, and they lack the ability to take other weapons, and therefore a little utility. That said, they do have a 6++

Penitents and generic weapon & cc dreads have the same number of initial attacks, with the penitent adding one extra one on the charge. But it's all at I3 so if you charge into a regular dreadnought you'll get wrecked more often than not - something like the old 95pt 'durandal' cc dread would be a risky prospect for a whole unit of penitents.

 

They can work (especially with the new grenade rules) if your opponent doesn't have much anti-armour, but you wouldn't want to run into a dreadnought formation. Their main problem aside from durability is just the time it takes to walk them up the board if your opponent isn't coming to you.

Ok, cuz in battle scribe its showing a basic multimelta power fist dread to have 6 attacks base, so seven on the charge vs the pengines 6 on the charge.

 

If pengines had drop pods or could move faster, or got the bonus +2 attacks for being a Sororitas dreadnought they'd be fine, but without any of the above they are a tricky unit to use. I love them, but my first couple games with them were a huge disappointment as they blew up before combat.

I now use scouting melta repressor dominions to draw fire while they slowly make their way into combat.

[A.T.]

Ok, cuz in battle scribe its showing a basic multimelta power fist dread to have 6 attacks base, so seven on the charge vs the pengines 6 on the charge.

That's an error. Dreadnoughts are base 4 attacks.

 

Murderfang on the other hand, 135pts for WS 5, 9 attacks on the charge (at S8 AP2, mastercrafted, shred) plus rampage and ignores shaken/stunned, plus it will not die, with an optional drop pod...

[Lysimachus]

Basically the only real changes to the army list:

 

St Celestine removed

Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave removed

Sororitas Command Squad moved to the Elites section

New unit: Arco-Flagellants (Elite). 3 Arco-Flagellants for 30pts, can buy up to 7 more. Rhino or Immolator as DT.

New unit: Crusaders (Elite). 2 Crusaders for 30pts, can buy up to 8 more. Rhino or Immolator as DT

New unit: Death Cult Assassins (Elite). 2 DCA's for 30pts, can buy up to 8 more. Rhin or immolator.

New detachment: Ministorum Delegation. 1 HQ (must be a Ministorum Priest) and 1 optional Elite, all units in the detachment gain Shield of Faith.

New detachment: Vestal Task Force. 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite, optional 1 HQ, 4 Troops, 2 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support. Once per game all units can re-roll saving throws of 1 until the end of the turn. Warlord can re-roll Walord Trait if Primary Detachment.

New formation: Ecclisarchy Battle Conclave. 1 Ministorum Priest or Uriah Jacobus. 3-10 units in any combination of Arco-flagellants, Crusaders or Death Cult Assassins. All models in the Formation form a single unit, and all models get the Shield of Faith rule.

 

Immolator: Gained a Fire Point on the top hatch (as per the draft FAQ).

Condemnor Boltgun: Only requires you to hit an enemy unit with a Psyker to cause Perils (as per the draft FAQ)

Acts of Faith: They now last until the End of Turn, rather than End of Phase.

Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher clarified to be a turret mounted weapon with a 360-degree arc of sight.

 

New Tactical Objectives:

* Slay the Heretic: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you killed any enemy characters during the turn

* Armour of Contempt: The next time one of your Adepta Sororitas makes a successful Shield of Faith save or Deny the Witch roll, immediately score 1 VP.

* Reclaim Lost Relic: Roll a D6 - Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you control the objective that corresponds to the D6 result.

* Trust in the Emperor: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if a unit with the Act of Faith rule destroys an enemy unit. If the unit was under the effects of an Act of Faith, score D3 VPs instead.

* The Blood of Martyrs: Next time one of your Adepta Sororitas characters is slain, score 1 VP. If the model as the Martyrdom rule, score D3 VPs instead.

* A Leap of Faith: Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if you pass at least 1 Act of Faith test during the turn. If you pass 3, score D3 VPs instead. If you pass 6 or more, score D3+3 VPs instead.

So, would I be right in saying that other than the loss of St Celestine, Sisters have ended up with a decent boost overall?

 

The Detachment isn't amazing but certainly isn't dreadful either, seems like most Sisters armies already include the necessary 'tax' units so no downsides to taking it and gaining the benefits? Idle curiosity but what's the exact phrasing on the reroll of ones? Cos if it's just 'saving throws' wouldn't that include their regular 3+ as well as the SoF save?

 

The TOs all seem good too, should make a solid difference in VP games?

 

Plus the new Canoness SC seems pretty good for what you're paying, well worth having even as a secondary HQ if you still want your Mantle/Eviscerator girl?

 

How do you guys feel about it overall? I think it seems like a good release, we just have to hope that Celestine gets a new mini in the new year with her rules as a Dataslate! In which case I don't think anyone would actually care all that much if the e-dex was retired?

[Beams]

Overall, it's... Ok. The loss of Celestine sucks, the detachment loses obsec so it's not really worth taking, the updated conclaves is rough since most places have a detachment limits.

On the bright side: tactical objectives are good, Uriah boosts arcos. Command squad moved to elites, so they are ok now.

 

Overall, I still think we lost a little more than we gained, but rhe new inq. Rules will help out those of us who used dominoes and coteaz.

[A.T.]

So, would I be right in saying that other than the loss of St Celestine, Sisters have ended up with a decent boost overall?

 

Aside from Celestine it's pretty much a wash, almost nothing has changed from the ebook other than faqs being rolled in.

 

The TOs aren't terrible, command squads being split out are useful (though still won't be taken over dominions and retributors), and... that's about the entire codex.

 

I'm sure if the Vestal task force hadn't include the compulsory troops you'd see more if it as a command squad/exorcist support force with the named canoness but as-is it's a losing proposition.

[Drider]

I dunno... I think the best part about c:ia is you can take a 25 point priest as your manditory CAD HQ

[CrusherJoe]

Holy Boltguns! Could you imagine D6 s8 ap1 small blasts!!! 

Yes.

 

Yes, I could.

 

*smiles wistfully at the thought of all the purging*

 

 

...what? These heretics aren't going to purge themselves!