Black Library Advent Calendar 2016

[Marshal Loss]

So Mortarion wears a hood to cover his Trump style 'hair'? The secret is out...

 

In all seriousness, some very good points made, and I may need to sit on it and think some more. There is definitely room for Mortarion as the saviour he was believed by many to be, as a man of the people. If it makes sense though, it just doesn't feel right to me the way he's written in FoTE, it jars too heavily with his other depictions, he doesn't attempt to win Garro over in the manner I'd expect given what we know of him. A little too fatherly. I also don't view Mortarion as an astute political animal, natural Primarch-level talents aside, although he is grounded in pragmatism - he's the only Primarch to treat the Legionaries he condemns to death with any respect by descending to Isstvan to fight them man to man with the attitude that they are a worthy (or at least dangerous) opponent, which I always liked.

 

It keeps coming back to the fact that FoTE was so long ago, and the series has progressed so far. Many Primarchs are depicted far better now than they used to be, and Mortarion is one of them for me. End of the day, we'll have to wait and see. I just fervently hope that this isn't going to be another Fear to Tread, assuming Swallow is the one doing their fall.

 

With regards to his scythe/appearance though - I don't think it's a much a guise he puts on.The scythe he wields is (most likely, as per FW's description) his necromancer foster-father's, him carrying it is, if anything, a sign of how deep his resentment and bitterness go. I always took it that his using the breathing aparatus was because of how permanently (physically and mentally) screwed up he was after attempting to kill his foster-father - everything about him, from his appearance to the way he acts and views the galaxy, is derived from that screwed up father-father-son relationship. Morty has arguably the biggest daddy issues in the galaxy.

 

Some really good posts on this thread. I'm out of likes for the first time. A pleasant change from some other threads

[HeritorA]

Well just read Exocytosis and must say it was an interesting way of doing things. There was a good little tale here to be told and James does a great job of telling it. There is a sense of symmetry about the whole thing that just worked for me.

I'm not sure why everyone gives James Swallow a hard time I really enjoy his work. Sure Chris did a great job with the Death Guard, but so did James in Flight of the Eisenstein and Nick in Deathfire?

If where picking favourites then I would choose Rob sanders for his depiction of the Death guard in The Distant Echoes of Old Night, now that was one heck of a story, Rob really demonstrates the sheer unstoppable power of the Death Guard, I would recommend that to anyone who has not yet read that one.

You was in need to mention Deathfire - do you?

FoTE really didn't grab me either, though I particularly liked the scenes with Dorn.

One of the best indeed.

'Kyme's Death Guard in Deathfire were a joke.' - even more, they were cartoonish moustache clowns.

'Mortarion meets the Khan on Terra' - the only way for them to meet, if Horus sent Mortarionto recapture main spaceport after Khan counterattack.

'James Swallow did recently finish Garro (Book 42)' - ahem, what to finish? It is anothe collection of Garro old stuff under 1 cover.

'While I echo the sentiment the others have brought forward and that I hope Wraight gets to handle it, I think Swallow could do a perfectly acceptable Doom of the Deathguard novel.' - oh yes he can. The main point that could happen is he will relax after Deus Ex to get hold of his inspiration again.

I always found Mortarion's dislike of the Emperor based on his kill-stealing a little silly, especially in comparison to 1. Being the same sort of tyrant he fought his entire life until that point to depose, and 2. letting those gosh-darned psykers have so much freedom. I mean, didn't he take a scythe as his weapon to identify with the farmers he saved rather than to look like a heavy metal album cover?

To me, Mortartion is compelling because while not especially charismatic, he believed in the Warmaster's espoused cause, and doesn't seem to take much joy in praising daemons, flaying, slaughter for its own sake, hookers and blow, or planet-killing outbursts. He, like, believed in the cause, man!

But I am in agreement that the total lack of crazy in Swallows Mortarion was a problem, and as I've said, Wraight does it much better. But hoo boy, compared to stuff like Mcneill's Mortarion, James did pretty good.

Totally agree to everything said above.

[1ncarnadine]

he's the only Primarch to treat the Legionaries he condemns to death with any respect by descending to Isstvan to fight them man to man with the attitude that they are a worthy (or at least dangerous) opponent, which I always liked.

 

Angron, though?

 

 

With regards to his scythe/appearance though - I don't think it's a much a guise he puts on.The scythe he wields is (most likely, as per FW's description) his necromancer foster-father's, him carrying it is, if anything, a sign of how deep his resentment and bitterness go. I always took it that his using the breathing aparatus was because of how permanently (physically and mentally) screwed up he was after attempting to kill his foster-father - everything about him, from his appearance to the way he acts and views the galaxy, is derived from that screwed up father-father-son relationship. Morty has arguably the biggest daddy issues in the galaxy.

 

Mortarion bearing Silence has, to me, represented what he's overcome. The Death Guard in general are all about displaying the evidence of the challenges that they've bested on their very armour, and Silence (and the rebreather) are both symbols of that. Unfortunately, the main theme of the Death Guard is that they become what they've overcome. They have always been about justifying horrifying "means to an end," but in the process they just become the end. 

[LaurieJGoulding]

'James Swallow did recently finish Garro (Book 42)' - ahem, what to finish? It is anothe collection of Garro old stuff under 1 cover.

 

 

Right, nut-punch for Andrey.

 

I did warn you.

[bluntblade]

I always understood Mortarion's assault on the trenches as not being honourable, simply bombing anything he could hit while his troops deployed.

[Marshal Loss]

@LetsYouDown - Was talking about attitude while he did it (although now that you mention it, Angron was all about his martial honour at that point wasn't he? There might be a short story about it, I can't remember, so you're right there), he treated them with respect in that he acknowledged they were his sons by taking no chances, sweeping the trenches clean with gunfire before marching in to finish the job. It's a solid foil to Eidolon's Emperor's Children, who treat their own Loyalist brethren as inferior and are punished for it. I was wrong on him being the only one doing it, but it's still him showing his respect in a distinctly Mortarionish fashion, I think.

 

I disagree on Silence specifically. Taking weapons from fallen opponents isn't a DG thing, that's more reminiscent of EC. Leaving marks on his armour from the Khan's duel, that's symbolising a job not finished and what he has endured like you said, but his scythe is totally derived from his father issues, IMO. He didn't overcome his father, after all, that chance was stolen from him. That scythe is a reminder that he failed, that he wasn't strong enough, and that the Emperor was the one who saved him, just as his rebreather is a reminder that he was defeated by the noxious clouds surrounding his erstwhile foster-father's lair, despite his legendary endurance.

 

Your last line is a perfect summary of the DG though. I always like the fact that Mortarion has always been about saving people, keeping humanity free from tyrants, while simultaneously murdering entire worlds.

 

@bluntblade - I suppose you could view it as dishonourable, I just view it as an example of how pragmatic Mortarion is. He isn't about honour or flair or spectacle, he's about getting the job done in the way he thinks best - superior firepower and unrelenting endurance. Horus doing the same thing might be dishonourable, but from in the context of Mortarion I don't think it was intended as a slight, in any case.

[HeritorA]

I always understood Mortarion's assault on the trenches as not being honourable, simply bombing anything he could hit while his troops deployed.

Mortarion doesn't care about honor in general terms. He cares about his personal slight, ego, ambitions and personal kind of code  and effeciency. And brother Horus Respect.

[bluntblade]

Marshal - I concur on that. Mortarion should be all about pragmatism, except where the Warp is concerned

[HeritorA]

Marshal - I concur on that. Mortarion should be all about pragmatism, except where the Warp is concerned

Pragmatism is a word for both the Morty and Perturabo

[Arkangilos]

Well just read Exocytosis and must say it was an interesting way of doing things. There was a good little tale here to be told and James does a great job of telling it. There is a sense of symmetry about the whole thing that just worked for me.

I'm not sure why everyone gives James Swallow a hard time I really enjoy his work. Sure Chris did a great job with the Death Guard, but so did James in Flight of the Eisenstein and Nick in Deathfire?

If where picking favourites then I would choose Rob sanders for his depiction of the Death guard in The Distant Echoes of Old Night, now that was one heck of a story, Rob really demonstrates the sheer unstoppable power of the Death Guard, I would recommend that to anyone who has not yet read that one.

At least for me, it isn't that I don't like Swallow, it's that I don't like very specific stories from him. I don't have a problem with his writing, and I enjoyed most of his stories, but he didn't really (to me) capture the Blood Angels at all. He never really added anything memorable, he didn't get the "Angels" feel during the HH (see FW blurbs on them), and he didn't really capture their duality well in 40k. Plus the 40k stories were a bit over the top for me (at least the first three books).

I do like his Garro stories, and I enjoyed Flight of the Eisenstein. So yeah, it's not Swallow himself I dislike, it's just those very specific stories I mentioned, and particularly how they were handled.

[LaurieJGoulding]

I think what you've touched upon there, once again, is the subjectivity of the IP.

 

Everyone has their own idea of what's important and what isn't, with any part of Warhammmer. Including (especially?) the authors.

[Arkangilos]

I think what you've touched upon there, once again, is the subjectivity of the IP.

 

Everyone has their own idea of what's important and what isn't, with any part of Warhammmer. Including (especially?) the authors.

Yeah I know :p. That's why I don't dislike it when people like his stories. I just personally prefer other authors to write the Blood Angels because I feel they get them better.

 

I should also note, I'm specifically referring to the big novels for them.

[HeritorA]

I think what you've touched upon there, once again, is the subjectivity of the IP.

 

Everyone has their own idea of what's important and what isn't, with any part of Warhammmer. Including (especially?) the authors.

Well done, lol

[helterskelter]

Just finished the painted count.

In my humble opinion: I don't like it. I don't like skraivok, I didn't like him all that much in Pharos.

Technically the story is good. Executed well. I just don't like it.

Sorry Guy!

[LaurieJGoulding]

Subjectivity acknowledged. This is good.

 

If you don't like a character, it probably wouldn't matter WHO wrote them. That's fair.

[HeritorA]

Subjectivity acknowledged. This is good.

 

If you don't like a character, it probably wouldn't matter WHO wrote them. That's fair.

And if person don't like Primarch and Legion? But it definitely would matter if instead of A. it would have been written by person B.

 

What should fans do - to have another author for their Legion?

[Scribe]

I highly highly doubt fans have any ability to sway author selections (or picks?) about what is written by whom.

[helterskelter]

 

 

Subjectivity acknowledged. This is good.

 

If you don't like a character, it probably wouldn't matter WHO wrote them. That's fair.

And if person don't like Primarch and Legion? But it definitely would matter if instead of A. it would have been written by person B.

 

What should fans do - to have another author for their Legion?

I've had 4, maybe 5. Less is more

[HeritorA]

I highly highly doubt fans have any ability to sway author selections (or picks?) about what is written by whom.

BL authors team has difference in range of infinite abyss between their prose level. Without names - some are unreadable and some are incredible.

So yes - then someone who love legion a - gets a horrible author to write it, should we roll down and die from misery?

Or do fans need to change the legion the sell all the models they spent so much time with?

It would be good to have something in range of online selection of an author. But that will not work too - because, in that case some authors will be left without even minimal salary etc.

So yes - suffering and misery like Slaanesh tells us

[Scribe]

I get you, I'm not going to name names either, we all know which books/lines/legions are, within our echo chamber, lamented.

 

I just dont think it matters, if those books sell, and they obviously sell enough, or said authors would not be continuing to put out those books/lines/legions.

[DarkChaplain]

So yes - suffering and misery like Slaanesh tells us

And you'll LOVE IT, damn you!

[HeritorA]

I get you, I'm not going to name names either, we all know which books/lines/legions are, within our echo chamber, lamented.

 

I just dont think it matters, if those books sell, and they obviously sell enough, or said authors would not be continuing to put out those books/lines/legions.

In contradiction to any logic, sanity, whatever - some truly horrible books (99% of readers thought the, horrible) eventually sold well. So more followed. How the heck could that happened?

[Arkangilos]

They obviously weren't hated as much as you claim if their sequels sold.

[Jareddm]

Just finished the painted count.

In my humble opinion: I don't like it. I don't like skraivok, I didn't like him all that much in Pharos.

Technically the story is good. Executed well. I just don't like it.

Sorry Guy!

Whereas Skraivok is one of my favorite characters in Pharos. He's exactly what I pictured a high-ranking Night Lord to be, especially one pulled from the Nostraman aristocracy.

[Scribe]

 

I get you, I'm not going to name names either, we all know which books/lines/legions are, within our echo chamber, lamented.

 

I just dont think it matters, if those books sell, and they obviously sell enough, or said authors would not be continuing to put out those books/lines/legions.

In contradiction to any logic, sanity, whatever - some truly horrible books (99% of readers thought the, horrible) eventually sold well. So more followed. How the heck could that happened?

 

 

Thats the thing, we on these forums (much like any other fandom that is engaged at this level) are not reflective of the majority.

 

Most of the fan base reads little, doesnt care about the nuance in a book, and thinks 7th edition was fine (lol).

 

Most of the players in my own group, need me to educate them on upcoming releases, changes, FAQ's, and so on. Most people simply are not engaged at our level, and think a book is fine, when in our echochamber, we pick it apart.

 

Look at what happened with Master of Mankind. Page after page after page about the Emperor calling the Primarch's numbers, WHO CARES. Well the echo chamber did.

 

Totally missed the grander points of the book, and I was shocked when I finally read it myself (never pre-order folks, its a waste of time) that the numbers thing is a total throw away, within the context of the book its minor in the extreme when we are reading about the loss of the Emperor's dream for humanity.