How to fix 40k Admech Weaknesses?

[Magos Takatus]

Hi there. I am curious about the parts of the two Adeptus Mechanicus army lists that are a bit weak and could do with improvement. What are your thoughts about particular weapons or units that could do with a bit of help? Overall I think the faction is in good shape and the lack of transports is probably the biggest hurdle so there are other factions that need more help but in a vacuum, which parts fall short of your expectations?

 

I'll start off with the Torsion Cannon. The description of the weapon made me think it was one of the coolest weapon concepts available to the Adeptus Mechanicus but a single shot on a BS3 platform is pretty unreliable. The slow movement of the Kataphrons combined with the 24" range don't help either. What would you do to make the weapon compete better with the alternate Arc weapon load-out? Adding an extra shot would potentially usurp the Heavy Arc Rifle since that could potentially be 6 wounds/hull points per Servitor. Would the answer be to artificially improve the accuracy of the Torsion Cannon to make it more reliable, or should we just accept it's the Orkiest gun in the Adeptus Mechanicus codices and hope to roll lucky?

 

 

[DeStinyFiSh]

Make E-Priests cheaper.

 

Torsion Canon better range.

 

Make Ruststalkers more effektive (don't know how though).

 

All in all i think we have a pretty solid army without that many weaknesses...

[Tiger9gamer]

Transpooooooorts

 

Ahem I had get that out of the way.

 

I would boost the robots up. 135pts for each bot just doesn't do as much as I would like it to do. I think maybe make it more inline with the HH Castellex, making the robot BS4 and have 4 wounds rather than three while keeping the points roughly the same. That way It could actually hit things more often instead of only half the time.

 

I would also make the rangers sniper tentatively.  That way they could be useful as back field support and be a good competitor for troop choice. They could be our version of sniper scouts then. While I'm at it I would make the arquebus fleshbane as well as armour bane and keep the points the same.

 

I would give onegers splitfire. That way it makes a little more sense to have a squadron of three without it being overkill on anything it shoots at.

[Carlson793]

Transports.

 

And maybe port Cybertheurgy over from HH (but that's not really needed to fix anything).

[Tyriks]

Hi there. I am curious about the parts of the two Adeptus Mechanicus army lists that are a bit weak and could do with improvement. What are your thoughts about particular weapons or units that could do with a bit of help? Overall I think the faction is in good shape and the lack of transports is probably the biggest hurdle so there are other factions that need more help but in a vacuum, which parts fall short of your expectations?

 

I'll start off with the Torsion Cannon. The description of the weapon made me think it was one of the coolest weapon concepts available to the Adeptus Mechanicus but a single shot on a BS3 platform is pretty unreliable. The slow movement of the Kataphrons combined with the 24" range don't help either. What would you do to make the weapon compete better with the alternate Arc weapon load-out? Adding an extra shot would potentially usurp the Heavy Arc Rifle since that could potentially be 6 wounds/hull points per Servitor. Would the answer be to artificially improve the accuracy of the Torsion Cannon to make it more reliable, or should we just accept it's the Orkiest gun in the Adeptus Mechanicus codices and hope to roll lucky?

Torsion Cannon got my hopes up, too.  I've fielded them two or three times now and they have never done a single thing in any game for me.  Make them TL (or a weaker TL, like reroll ones or something) or replace the gun with "Torsion Cannon with Tracking Module" that increases BS (but wouldn't boost BS for arc).  

 

Make E-Priests cheaper.

 

Torsion Canon better range.

 

Make Ruststalkers more effektive (don't know how though).

 

All in all i think we have a pretty solid army without that many weaknesses...

Instead of cheaper e-priests, I wish they were just better.  Either boosted stats/armor, probably also faster.  Dune strider would work, or give them JP options.  Making them cheaper helps but we still would lack any good CC units, so I'd rather just buff them and keep the cost.  

 

Ruststalkers are pretty good in my book.  Make the grenades stay when you switch for blades and give them a 5++ instead of FNP (or a built in 3/4+ cover so they're still fragile in combat but can survive getting there).  They're fragile, but they also pump out a TON of AP2 and can autowound so I'm pretty happy with them.  You just need to prioritize the right stuff, usually (some enemies they are pretty useless though).

 

Transpooooooorts

 

Ahem I had get that out of the way.

 

I would boost the robots up. 135pts for each bot just doesn't do as much as I would like it to do. I think maybe make it more inline with the HH Castellex, making the robot BS4 and have 4 wounds rather than three while keeping the points roughly the same. That way It could actually hit things more often instead of only half the time.

 

I would also make the rangers sniper tentatively.  That way they could be useful as back field support and be a good competitor for troop choice. They could be our version of sniper scouts then. While I'm at it I would make the arquebus fleshbane as well as armour bane and keep the points the same.

 

I would give onegers splitfire. That way it makes a little more sense to have a squadron of three without it being overkill on anything it shoots at.

Hm, maybe I've gotten lucky with my robots, I think they pump out a ton of pain every game.  No one I know plays with super heavies or anything, so that might help them.  They just put out so many shots that even when a lot miss they still get some solid hits in for me.  Split fire for Onagers would be a dream since you run out of slots really fast but anything besides HPB is almost always going to overkill in a unit of 3.  

 

I think we have a pretty solid army for being so new, so I am content waiting for any updates.  That said, when we get them, I hope it includes 2 main things, and maybe a couple more after we get those two.

 

First, obviously, transports.  I've had games where I would have tabled my opponent but they were able to just run away and nothing I had could get across the board, so they camped objectives while I got dismal Run rolls every turn and ended up beating me.  We have so few fast options that I feel like I always have to include all of them every game to prevent stuff like this.  

 

Second, we need a non-disposable CC unit.  Even if it was pretty much just assault marines' stat lines, I'd be okay with that, since most of our CC options just give us Pyrrhic victories in assaults.  I want to have at least some options to assault an enemy and then still be able to assault another enemy later.  Right now it seems like our only options are Dragoons (who are great against low S enemies but lack AP and can be easily stuck in inefficient combats) or Kastelans which are sooooo slow and not efficient points wise for CC (in my experience).

 

Beyond that, but much less importantly, I want a flyer (or maybe a dual kit flyer with one anti-air option and one anti-ground) and a psyker.  In the current meta, both flyers and psykers are sitting pretty, so I'd like to be able to compete more effectively.  

[Castellan Cato]

You guys all have some great points.

 

 

Second, we need a non-disposable CC unit.  Even if it was pretty much just assault marines' stat lines, I'd be okay with that, since most of our CC options just give us Pyrrhic victories in assaults.  I want to have at least some options to assault an enemy and then still be able to assault another enemy later.  Right now it seems like our only options are Dragoons (who are great against low S enemies but lack AP and can be easily stuck in inefficient combats) or Kastelans which are sooooo slow and not efficient points wise for CC (in my experience).

 

Sounds like you need to run some infiltrators.  Still fragile and somewhat expensive, but are brutal if they can get to combat.  I wish there was a formation for them, and/or a way to give more than one unit re-rolls to hit (My alpha is always toting the Omniscient Mask, but that only works for one squad).

 

If I could wish list:

1) ONE SINGLE CODEX.  This makes me so grumpy when list building.  If I could design this, it would be a new HQ model, the Skitarri Primus.  150ish points, with just a few wargear options.  Having a Primus unlocks Doctrina for the army, having a tech priest unlocks Litanies.  If they're feeling stingy, you only get one or the other.

 

2) A better version of the arquebus.  Its an awesome idea, but its way too expensive for the randomness.  Cut it to 10 or 15 points, and I'd probably love it.

 

3) Improve E priests.  These should cost more like an assault marine than a terminator.  Even then they'd probably still be unplayable....  Dunestrider would help a lot.  Or scout.

 

4) More synergies in both lists for the tech priest.  I'd like to be able to specialize my Tech priest.  FW has done this right.  For example:  1+BS to kataphrons that hes attached to OR bonus movement/inv save for E priests hes with OR the ability to join robot squads...?

 

Just my thoughts.  Mechanicum has become my favorite army though.  I love the way that it plays.  There's just so many options in your toolbox.

[Tiger9gamer]

 

Hm, maybe I've gotten lucky with my robots, I think they pump out a ton of pain every game.  No one I know plays with super heavies or anything, so that might help them.  They just put out so many shots that even when a lot miss they still get some solid hits in for me.  Split fire for Onagers would be a dream since you run out of slots really fast but anything besides HPB is almost always going to overkill in a unit of 3.  

 

 

 

 

They pump out tons of shots no doubt, but when I play my castellex the difference is pretty apparent. For 5 more points they are BS5 -1 cover so they are much more accurate than the 40k counterparts, along with being more stabby in combat. I think I may just want castellex in 40k when I ask for an extra wound and more upgrades, but they should at least be able to hit on a 3+ with their guns. 

 

Also, I want more robots with a cortex controller type mechanic from 30k. It's a lot more reasonable with one guy controlling bots within a range.

 

I think I may write an article about this and submit it to BOLS or something....

[Tyriks]

I do run Infiltrators, and I like them, but they don't survive.  They take a lot out with them, but so do ruststalkers.  They hold up better than russtalkers because of the neurostatic aura, but then they get eaten up by pretty much anything that makes it through the first volley of swinging.  I would love to have a unit that could take a hit, even if it sacrifices some killing power to do so.  

 

I'd like it if they made more robots, make the TPD and a cheaper, weaker HQ act like a sort of synapse creature for the robots - if no HQ is around to control them, they just do whatever they were doing before.  Or maybe (since synapse already exists) they still act normally but just get +1 BS/WS when within range of a controller.  

 

Our army really has more fluff reasons to have crazy unique rules than anything else, so I want more options!  Haha.

[MajorNese]

Wishlisting, yay...

 

A combined codex, transport, better electropriests, and more wargear options for the techpriest. Except for that, a few ported IG/Astartes vehicles might be nice, like the inquisition got. Would fix quite a few issues...

 

 

They pump out tons of shots no doubt, but when I play my castellex the difference is pretty apparent. For 5 more points they are BS5 -1 cover so they are much more accurate than the 40k counterparts, along with being more stabby in combat. I think I may just want castellex in 40k when I ask for an extra wound and more upgrades, but they should at least be able to hit on a 3+ with their guns. 

Also, I want more robots with a cortex controller type mechanic from 30k. It's a lot more reasonable with one guy controlling bots within a range.

Seriously, ever played against those bots? I'd rather say they are undercosted, erasing units left and right while being extremely resilient and shooting back with your own shots.

[Vel'Cona]

Gonna echo transports.  I know GW was attempting to create a 40k army that didn't need transports, but they failed outright with AdMech IMO.  For an example of this idea done correctly, read Codex: Genestealer Cults.  Who, by the way, can still take transports if they want.

 

Also Psykers would be good too, and would make plenty of sense without too much lore-twisting/retconning.

[Tiger9gamer]

 

 

 

Seriously, ever played against those bots? I'd rather say they are undercosted, erasing units left and right while being extremely resilient and shooting back with your own shots.

 

I have played against castellex and they were hard to kill, but I feel they should be a little harder to kill all the same. It's just my opinion and experiences, but  the kastelan feels like he could barely hit a darn barn because of the higher chance to fail, and only having 3 wounds makes it a lot harder to fully engage an enemy even with FNP. but again, that's just my own experiences.

 

@Velcona: The psyker thing could be fun, especially if we get electromancy... Imagine if you will; Electro cardinals over electro priests. 

 

Hell, they could make their own cyberthurgy in 40k too if they dedicate one more page to it. 

[thevoodooman]

Could you run kastellan with fists and flamers as a CC unit? Slow but able to take something of a beating en route to combat.

 

Transports would be good but you gotta have some weakness somewhere I guess

[Tiger9gamer]

Could you run kastellan with fists and flamers as a CC unit? Slow but able to take something of a beating en route to combat.

 

Transports would be good but you gotta have some weakness somewhere I guess

 

I fail to understand what that would do to make them tougher. Sure they hit harder in melee at I1, but usually by then the enemy already attacked  and caused damage. They also would get damage from shooting all the same.

 

Well, look at it this way. Imperial guard has transports and they can still get ripped apart. Space marines still have transports (for bloody free most of the time) and they still get ripped apart and so on. If we get a transports sure we would be faster and a bit more durable, but we would still have T3 models in a probabbly crappy transport that could get ripped apart by a heavy bolter.

[Tyriks]

I think Kastelans are tough enough (though a few bad rolls can really ruin your day with that Tech priest) but mine have yet to make it into combat. It's like walking a dreadnought up the field, it takes forever and people will just move away from it. It's actually a little worse because in a 3 man unit terrain is more likely to slow you down than with the one solo model.

 

I don't think giving us transports would unbalance us. We are a really solid army but even with very nice transports we wouldn't be Eldar, and we are also fairly predictable since we have few options. I'd be fine with leaving such a glaring weakness if the game wasn't all about objectives right now and if our fluff didn't make that notion obscene. We really should have the easiest access to transports.

[MoGuy]

Combined codex, an HQ choice for the Skitarii, named characters, upgrades to the Rangers (which have become utterly useless with the release of the Secutarii Peltasts), buffs to our close combat units, a flyer (like the Mechanicum Drone from Forgeworld), transports, more wargear options for the Dominus, an artefact/character/whatever to give us a defence in the psychic phase (like giving units in 12" Adamantine Will etc. No, I don't want to ally in a Culexus Assassin), a tank or Onager version with weapon option that help us deal with hordes (like Volkite Weapons or Ignores Cover blasts etc.).

[Tyriks]

Combined codex, an HQ choice for the Skitarii, named characters, upgrades to the Rangers (which have become utterly useless with the release of the Secutarii Peltasts), buffs to our close combat units, a flyer (like the Mechanicum Drone from Forgeworld), transports, more wargear options for the Dominus, an artefact/character/whatever to give us a defence in the psychic phase (like giving units in 12" Adamantine Will etc. No, I don't want to ally in a Culexus Assassin), a tank or Onager version with weapon option that help us deal with hordes (like Volkite Weapons or Ignores Cover blasts etc.).

I would love an onager with something like a volkite repeater (or whatever) that's the same stats but assault 6, or something along those lines.

[JeffJedi]

Make Electro Priests Jump Infantry, say they zap themselves around like a bolt of lightning.

[Carlson793]

Make Electro Priests Jump Infantry, say they zap themselves around like a bolt of lightning.

(queue pseudo-scientific gobbledie gook...)

They project bolts of electricity at a target (enemy unit, building, that random atom drifting over yonder) in a cyclonic pattern, creating a strong magnetic field in said target, which draws the Electro-Priest towards it a great speed.

[Vel'Cona]

Moar Haywire, as well.  The AdMech uses a ton of electro-mechanical weapons and it should be one of the major selling points (in the same way that Gauss is a selling point for Crons).