Fear & Astartes in 30k

[Kais Klip]

So we had leadership-test failures explained to us when it came to Astartes, in the case of uncertain battlefield environments persuading Astartes to back up and regroup rather than pressing on. The Horus Heresy was an unprecedented event, so unprecedented reactions could be expected. 

 

But how would we justify failed Fear tests? Primarchs I could maybe understand, but it just feels off for an Astartes to be even off put by another. I could maybe pretend Fear causing units employing an unfamiliar fighting style and thus catching their opponents off-guard, but for a Space Marine to be struck by what, post-transhuman dread, by another peer wearing some leather? 

 

Do we have anything relating to the topic mentioned in the fluff? 

[Corswain]

Can't say I've read anything on Astartes experiencing fear except against Primarchs but there has been some examples of PTSD (for lack of a better word). While not the same, for me, it shows that Astartes are subject to all the same problems as an unaugmented person, they just have a higher tolerence before they are affected.

 

Regarding fear tests - I guess I see it as a general label for a range of causes/reactions. For example, Astartes might be disgusted by the Night Lords use of trophies and be stunned by it, causing them to back away. What, narratively, might only be seconds, could potentially be a turn or more in the game.

 

It's not a perfect line of reasoning, but it works for me.

[Phatsquirre1]

The BL books all describe Primarchs as inspiring awe and dread in people, including astartes. I could easily see marines being reluctant to dare strike a demigod, or intimidated by their stature enough to slow them down. Like Corswain said, narratively, even the smallest hesitation could mean life or death when Superhumans and Demigods are duking it out

[depthcharge12]

It could just mean them retreating to get a better advantage...we really haven't seen marines in the books actually fearing stuff...unless you count Tarvitz running from angron...

 

In which case I can't blame him. The only dudes that don't run from Angron are his own sons, who have had fear pretty much surgically removed and are crazy themselves :P

 

But seriously I'd poop my ceramite pants if I saw Angron moving in any direction that wasn't toward my enemies.

[Ishagu]

In the Heresy books, first one in fact, it describes the effect Primarchs have on Marines - they could be rendered speechless and un-easy on their knees.

 

The effect is amplified many times when normal humans are in their presence. There are stories of people having lucid dreams or nightmares the night after merely seeing a Primarch for an instant.

 

This "Primarch effect" is actually engineered by the Emperor. A combination of their super charisma, beauty and awe inspiring presence.

 

Think of a failed Fear test as the Astartes being stunned by a Primarch engaged in combat with them as opposed to afraid.

[Kais Klip]

I'm more talking about Fear in terms of dropping WS down to 1, rather than falling back as such. The only things to cause Fear that come to mind are daemons, overly loud Chaplains and Bile's organic machinations, and not Night Lords or Salamanders, despite what the rules say. At least the latter makes slight sense, maybe the Sallies get so mad they set themselves on fire first. 

 

Edit: I'm talking regular marine on marine action; why would one ever be scared of the other? 

[D3L]

Edit: I'm talking regular marine on marine action; why would one ever be scared of the other? 

Let's try to give an example:

 

You're an Astartes, genetically enhanced, engineered and eager for battle, pre-bulked and pressed into service during the HH

 

You're a standard legionnaire, so standard you're blue

 

You're defending an important outpost, your vox-lines go down, or become saturated with unnerving cries which can't possibly be human, wait, the civilians your unit were protecting in the redoubt have vanished, all from under your nose, for the love of Terra you had this segment of the battlezone locked down some one will pay for this security breach, wait.. how did they breach your security protocols, they were freshly implemented last cycle, after checking the logs you find it was your superior who disengaged them, surely he'll be demoted, you trying to vox for confirmation but his ident isn't responding, come to think of it where's the power gone, while that doesn't affect your armour-sight, the Imperial army units that were stationed down the line are starting to sound panicky, they're not under attack, there's no weapon reports, but they're causing a commotion, something about liters of gore, moments later you wish you hadn't investigated, the remains of the civilians hang off the macabre skeleton dressed uniforms of what were the Army Auxillia but the bunker is steeping in inches of blood and viscera, shaking your head you resolutely return to your watch-position, the firing post shouldn't be unmanned even for this terror tactics, as you round the corner you see the familiar bulk of an astartes, your legion ident flashes up of your hud, through the dark-power cut light you see the familiar cobalt shadowed, it's the lieutenant, as you approach adjacent you vox-hail and report while you sight your bolter over the perimeter wall, he didn't respond, you tilt your helmet, to see if the lieutenant has an malfunctioning vox-unit, his visor lights are off, the front of armour is a mess, a disgusting parody of an eagle formed from bones, sinew and blood seems nailed or splay open from the center of his chest piece.

 

You steel your self, he was incompetent, the enemy are here, you'll make them pay, opening all local frequencies you cry foul and challenge your unseen assailants in rage, as you level your bolter again over the parapet

 

as soon as your battle-cry echo dies on the wind, something grinds, something whirs, something like a power sword behind over your shoulder where the lieutenant was, powers up

 

"we have come for you"

 

you begin to turn... 

 

 

[Jackalwolf]

The first trilogy clearly describes the Sons of Horus freaking out when encountering daemons. I think it's perfectly fine for Astartes to fear Primarchs and Daemons since they're an unknown and in 40k they've had 10,000 years to become acquainted with that reality and thus, be ready for it.

The Chaplains I can't argue logically Any common Night Lord envies nothing to the grim looks of a Chaplain.

Unless you wanna go play the assumptions game and imply that Chaplains are imbued by the light of the Emperor / the power of the Warp, therefore having a striking effect in the opposing factions.

[Ishagu]

In 30k they didn't have the same mental training and conditioning as in 40k.

[Scribe]

In 30k they didn't have the same mental training and conditioning as in 40k.

 

AKA: Psycho-indoctrination and Brain Washing. :p

[RapatoR]

Well if it was up to me, I would rename the rule to horror and have fearless/atsknf units not ignore it.

[Vodunius]

"..Now because of the treachery of the Warmaster, thrice accursed Horus, we battled. No quarter was asked, no quarter was given. Hatred drove us. Hatred and fear.  Aye, fear. For we were the finest warriors in the universe, elite among elite, the chosen of humanity. Once we had acknowledged no foe as our equal. Now we must – for were not these men the same as ourselves? Spawned from geneseed, trained by masters, armed and equipped with the best from humanity's realm. Finally we faced a for worthy of fear, a mirror image of ourselves and all we believed in. In this nightmare, brother against false brother to the death. Is it any wonder we knew fear?" Lexicanian Elisar Trask, Ultramarines (Codex Titanicus, both the original and the Titan Legions book)