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My final HH planning meeting

LaurieJGoulding

By LaurieJGoulding
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deathspectersgt7 Venerable Brother

deathspectersgt7

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To come back to the question of "Why do I hate Index Astartes?" - I don't hate them. I think there were some really interesting ideas in there, and as people have said, they were the only place to get pre-Heresy info on a lot of the Legions for a loooooong time.

 

But they are out of date, with regard to the canon. Newer stuff has replaced them. They are becoming obsolete as newer publications cover the same content, in a more relevant and better-written way.

 

It's like Rogue Trader (which is getting a reprint, did you see that? Awesome!) being heralded as "the only true 40k canon". Utter bobbins, say I. That's like saying that the first ever car was the best and no subsequent design or model will ever out-perform it. Sure, appreciate the retro entertainment of a book nearly 30 years old, but don't call it canon anymore.

 

===

 

And if anyone was a fan of Alan Merrett's work but then changed their opinion based on that screen-capture... well, may your neckbeard grow ever longer.

Changed my mind after a nice discussion . sticks out tongue. Had to look up what the hell a neckbeard was .

MrDarth151 Battle-Brother

MrDarth151

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He was the consultant for all of Games Workshop's IP for decades. He wrote the original version of the full Horus Heresy after Bill King's Siege of Terra synopsis, the one that certain elements of the fanbase can't get past being "the only true canon".

 

I'm pretty sure people simply dislike what they view as defiations from the original version.

 

Or disagree on the new version being superior. Variety of tastes is a thing.

mc warhammer Veteran

mc warhammer

Posted
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He was the consultant for all of Games Workshop's IP for decades. He wrote the original version of the full Horus Heresy after Bill King's Siege of Terra synopsis, the one that certain elements of the fanbase can't get past being "the only true canon".

I'm pretty sure people simply dislike what they view as defiations from the original version.

 

Or disagree on the new version being superior. Variety of tastes is a thing.

it sounds like you're countering a point, but there doesn't seem to be anything in that quoted text that requires rebuttal.

 

as for merret's take, i liked a lot of the new concepts and takes even if the prose left me a little cold.

Augustus Veteran

Augustus

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"...that certain elements of the fanbase can't get past being "the only true canon".

 

That is what he was commenting on I believe.

 

I love Bill King's take on the fight. If it changes I hope they have good reason. If it deviates too much from that I'll be a sad camper.

Scribe Venerable Brother

Scribe

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I dont know if its just me, but I've been losing track of thread conversations a lot lately....

 

There is a need, in my most humble of opinions, to deviate from 'the Emperor staid his hand...out of love'

 

A being, who has had a singular goal for 10's of thousands of years, is in mortal peril, knows he alone can save his species from a fate worse than death, and he wont defend himself out of misplaced love for a 'son' he created in a lab, who has torched half of his empire, and doomed it quite literally through his assorted plots and schemes (Magnus)...and you are ok with this?

 

It doesnt make sense anymore, if it ever did.

mc warhammer Veteran

mc warhammer

Posted
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"...that certain elements of the fanbase can't get past being "the only true canon".

 

That is what he was commenting on I believe.

 

that was the best explanation i could come up with too. it's a little confusing though. the statement that "some fans love this thing" followed by the response "well, other fans don't, there's difference of opinion" seems only to reiterate what was implied in the first statement but somehow present it as a rebuttal?

 

as for bill king's stuff. i loved it when i read it too, but rereading it in the context of the books we have now, it does seem a little thin in comparison.

 

I dont know if its just me, but I've been losing track of thread conversations a lot lately....

 

There is a need, in my most humble of opinions, to deviate from 'the Emperor staid his hand...out of love'

 

A being, who has had a singular goal for 10's of thousands of years, is in mortal peril, knows he alone can save his species from a fate worse than death, and he wont defend himself out of misplaced love for a 'son' he created in a lab, who has torched half of his empire, and doomed it quite literally through his assorted plots and schemes (Magnus)...and you are ok with this?

 

It doesnt make sense anymore, if it ever did.

 

when you put it like that...just the grand scale of it... the bill king stuff would have to be hugely expanded on to remain convincing.

Scribe Venerable Brother

Scribe

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Yes, thats my perspective now. I've posted elsewhere, that when we all were much younger, it made more sense to me.

 

Add 10 years of expansion of the fluff to show the total scale of it all, many more years of growing older and more jaded, and throw Master of Mankinds blunt portrayal (in a good way ADB) of just what it was all REALLY for...and the Emperor lets it slide while getting ripped up by what will 100% be a bloated Chaos Corrupted Horus? The personification of all the Emperor has tried to stop from coming to pass for the entire span of His life?

 

In the words of Monday Night Football staff...Come on man!!?!

LaurieJGoulding Battle-Brother

LaurieJGoulding

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I dont know if its just me, but I've been losing track of thread conversations a lot lately....

 

There is a need, in my most humble of opinions, to deviate from 'the Emperor staid his hand...out of love'

 

A being, who has had a singular goal for 10's of thousands of years, is in mortal peril, knows he alone can save his species from a fate worse than death, and he wont defend himself out of misplaced love for a 'son' he created in a lab, who has torched half of his empire, and doomed it quite literally through his assorted plots and schemes (Magnus)...and you are ok with this?

 

It doesnt make sense anymore, if it ever did.

 

Well then, I guess the jury is out until BL actually release this part of the story! No use pre-complaining about something that doesn't yet exist.

 

That would be INSANE.

MrDarth151 Battle-Brother

MrDarth151

Posted
Posted

Yes, thats my perspective now. I've posted elsewhere, that when we all were much younger, it made more sense to me.

 

Add 10 years of expansion of the fluff to show the total scale of it all, many more years of growing older and more jaded, and throw Master of Mankinds blunt portrayal (in a good way ADB) of just what it was all REALLY for...and the Emperor lets it slide while getting ripped up by what will 100% be a bloated Chaos Corrupted Horus? The personification of all the Emperor has tried to stop from coming to pass for the entire span of His life?

 

In the words of Monday Night Football staff...Come on man!!?!

 

I find it quietly amusing that ADB set out to not make a definitive portrayl of the Emperor in Master of Mankind, and yet everyone is threating it like that. It's kinda sad, really.

 

I liked the original portray of that confrontation. It went to a great length when it comes to humanising the Emperor. And making him more multifaceted than a "psychopathic warlord tyrant" incarnation that BL has been fond of lately.

MrDarth151 Battle-Brother

MrDarth151

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I've agreed with the last two posts that MrDarth151 has made.

 

WHAT'S HAPPENING?! Is this 2016's final twist...?

 

I'm not letting my bitterness run through me. 

 

And I need to set out towards making my Master of Mankind review. I've almost finished reading the book.

Augustus Veteran

Augustus

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A life without complaining is half lived.

A life of listening to complaints makes one wish they were dead. :)

 

Seriously though, good luck. Excited for the Siege. If you can tell us, after the Siege novelisation will there be any more material produced? Personally I don't see why not unless you guys want to wrap it up in it's own complete "box"

LaurieJGoulding Battle-Brother

LaurieJGoulding

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The possibility of the Horus Heresy becoming "a setting" as opposed to a linear narrative is one that has been discussed, once the Siege is done. There is precedent already, with un-numbered novels bearing the logo etc.

 

If we had had this level of freedom and common sense at BL over the last 6-7 years, there have been stories pushed through that perhaps would have been better saved for just such an endeavour. Great HH tales, but not really relevant to the main arc. Mentioning no names, like.

DukeLeto69 Battle-Brother

DukeLeto69

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Laurie please can you solve one mystery for me (others may already know the answer but I missed it if so)...

 

What is/was the relevance of the colour bars on the book spines?

 

I noticed they have stopped appearing on the more recent books.

 

Also to your point above...I always thought the HH series was a setting rather than a linear narrative! I get that there is a central story spine but as a whole it sure ain't linear. I guess the colour bar I refer to above could have been used to denote core narrative from side stories but don't believe it was how it was used!?

LaurieJGoulding Battle-Brother

LaurieJGoulding

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  • Author
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I've spoken many times about why the story split into so many narratives at the end of 'Fulgrim', but I reckon that's going to need a video explanation at some point. Watch this space.

 

The intention of the numbered volumes was that they would be the core storyline, to be read in that linear order. It's not a linear chronology of storytelling, which some people seem to think it should be - that's impossible, when you have 18 Legions and their primarchs all doing things at the same time. But more on that another day.

 

So far, we've seen 'The Honoured' and 'The Unburdened' as un-numbered novels (NOT NOVELLAS!) as well as 'Sons of the Forge' more recently. I've not commissioned any more until BL finished the Siege of Terra, now... but I dare say that we will see more of those un-numbered stories in future.

 

===

 

The colour banding was an interesting one. There WAS a method to it, at least in the beginning. RED was for the opening trilogy, and then there was another colour for a novel focusing on a specific event, another focusing on a specific Legion, another focusing on a specific primarch, etc etc. YELLOW was for anything in the Age of Darkness... and then suddenly, when I questioned it in 2011, we realised that this was a really flawed filing system... AND that there were at least three mistakes already.

 

So we decided to scrap it. Simple.

 

Future reprints will be without the coloured bands. I believe the platinum-blue foiled editions of older books are already colour-band free.

Master Ciaphas Veteran

Master Ciaphas

Posted
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Ah, that clears up the colour band thing...it has been bugging me since I saw it the first time! Cheers on that!

 

When the last book of the HH narrative is written, Horus has been obliterated and the Emperor incarcerated on the Golden Throne, it would be awesome with a number of books on the Scouring Era...

Kelborn Venerable Brother

Kelborn

Posted
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But hopefully no "what happened to the Primarchs?" stories.

 

IMHO that would be something kept in shrouds and mysteries. Most of the loyal ones would be like:

Sry guys. Gotta go and kick some Chaos' butts. You can call me when this side of the universe burns and gets interesting again.

 

I can rather imagine a couple of 2nd Founding chapters stories which are dealing with the broken Imperium and how they manage to stabilize again. Then of course the well known events like the Iron Cage or the UM vs AL one.

Mellow Battle-Brother

Mellow

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If written properly will I be:

 

Cheering when Horus is giving the Emperor a kicking

Crying when Horus is giving the Emperor a kicking

Cheering when The Emperor kills Horus

Crying when the Emperor kills Horus

Crying when the Emperor kills his favourite "son"

Petitioner's City Veteran

Petitioner's City

Posted
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Thanks for all this info Laurie, hope the new job treats you well.

 

On 'setting'... Id also love to see the start of the crusade, in Sol & on earth - the setting glimpsed in Prospero Burns & Master of Mankind, alluded to in Mechanicum & Praetorian, as well as noted often :D

 

I also pray - truly pray - for BL novels without battles or fights, or one where these are backgrounded to different ways of visualising the period or wider setting. There are many ways to depict war & confluct, and Id love to see more outside the (battle)box thinking. These 'setting' novels sound promising - it is not just bolters and chainswords reving into the night, it is imperium. What of home fronts, governments, politics, economics, religion, family, even love?

 

And to pass on to BL, can you/they somehow snag a writer like Una McCormack to produce a novel - have you read her Never-Ending Sacrifice or her Crimson Shadow? I endlessly praise these as two of the most beautiful tie-in books ive read. Or can Nik Vincent write a 40k novel, I always love her stories!

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