My final HH planning meeting

[Petitioner's City]

 

 

I also pray - truly pray - for BL novels without battles or fights, or one where these are backgrounded to different ways of visualising the period or wider setting. There are many ways to depict war & confluct, and Id love to see more outside the (battle)box thinking. These 'setting' novels sound promising - it is not just bolters and chainswords reving into the night, it is imperium. What of home fronts, governments, politics, economics, religion, family, even love?

Like Eisenhorn?

Oh yes! And Ravenor, Bequin, Calpurnia, Dark Heresy, Necromunda etc

 

 

And indeed, I've read most of these, and you'll find a fair few posts about Abnett and Farrer on B&C by myself. I guess my dream is the 40K novel where fights occur for less than 5% of it, to pull a random number, and have more play with genre, setting, world building. I know it seems  counter to the IP, but it really isn't, because perhaps the most successful example of the IP in text - Eisenhorn - does far more outwith its fights (the pit, the daemons on the ship) and its battle (the conclusion on the alien realm) than in them for making the text work. Heck my favourite moment in the trilogy, although peppered with death, is the train journey in Book 3. And the description of food and drink. And the dense web of references to the two segmentum that feature. And of course the first person voice that is so assured (although not as assured as Pariah's). 

 

But it is a start - not a single moment - and still battles and fights are key to the narratives of each of the books and series you listed. I want The Wire or Mad Men or The Americans in 40/30/36?/39K - combining another genre with the setting,, and then saying things about it/the historic origins of the IP/our times/just play.... Guns and fights and marines exist, but what about everything else that supports or even lives in ignorance or spite of them? 40K is a huge sandbox, with its teeming trillions ... I guess I'm curious about them. And it's Dan's work, and Matt's, and the long fluff sections of 2nd edition and 3rd edition rule books, and in games like Inquisitor and Necromunda which evoke them - but don't quite make them solid, those trillions, and the individuals that make up that uncountable number. Sometimes it does happen - even in war series, like Necropolis and then the later books in Gaunt, in particular the WW1 novel, and especially the traitor chapters of Traitor General, the earlier parts of Blood Pact, & much of Salvation's Reach - and also the stories in the last anthology (especially the wonderful story about the clerk after Vervumhive, and the story by Vincent). But is it possible to see more? What is it to be a child in this universe? What is it to be blind? What is it to believe in the Imperial cult? What is it to be a clerk in the Eye of Terror? What is it to love in this setting? What differentiates these humans from us? Etc....

 

Dan did refer to the 'dark times' at BL meaning he did not find as much support for Penitent. Whether that is true, I don't know, but there was, for a time, a seeming push away from 'exploring the setting'. It's interesting to hear your comment about arguing with Publications over The Primarchs, Laurie! And some of those side novels - like Nemesis - had wonderful scenes of daily life (I think that novel falls apart when it's revealed the detective is the monster, and that vanishes).

 

Anyway, this is all a total wish list - this is not a complaint about what has been published, I think of it more as an appeal for building on the very strong legacy that BL and even GW have stretching back to the 90s. 

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

I also pray - truly pray - for BL novels without battles or fights, or one where these are backgrounded to different ways of visualising the period or wider setting. There are many ways to depict war & confluct, and Id love to see more outside the (battle)box thinking. These 'setting' novels sound promising - it is not just bolters and chainswords reving into the night, it is imperium. What of home fronts, governments, politics, economics, religion, family, even love?

Like Eisenhorn?

Oh yes! And Ravenor, Bequin, Calpurnia, Dark Heresy, Necromunda etc

 

 

And indeed, I've read most of these, and you'll find a fair few posts about Abnett and Farrer on B&C by myself. I guess my dream is the 40K novel where fights occur for less than 5% of it, to pull a random number, and have more play with genre, setting, world building. I know it seems  counter to the IP, but it really isn't, because perhaps the most successful example of the IP in text - Eisenhorn - does far more outwith its fights (the pit, the daemons on the ship) and its battle (the conclusion on the alien realm) than in them for making the text work. Heck my favourite moment in the trilogy, although peppered with death, is the train journey in Book 3. And the description of food and drink. And the dense web of references to the two segmentum that feature. And of course the first person voice that is so assured (although not as assured as Pariah's). 

 

But it is a start - not a single moment - and still battles and fights are key to the narratives of each of the books and series you listed. I want The Wire or Mad Men or The Americans in 40/30/36?/39K - combining another genre with the setting,, and then saying things about it/the historic origins of the IP/our times/just play.... Guns and fights and marines exist, but what about everything else that supports or even lives in ignorance or spite of them? 40K is a huge sandbox, with its teeming trillions ... I guess I'm curious about them. And it's Dan's work, and Matt's, and the long fluff sections of 2nd edition and 3rd edition rule books, and in games like Inquisitor and Necromunda which evoke them - but don't quite make them solid, those trillions, and the individuals that make up that uncountable number. Sometimes it does happen - even in war series, like Necropolis and then the later books in Gaunt, in particular the WW1 novel, and especially the traitor chapters of Traitor General, the earlier parts of Blood Pact, & much of Salvation's Reach - and also the stories in the last anthology (especially the wonderful story about the clerk after Vervumhive, and the story by Vincent). But is it possible to see more? What is it to be a child in this universe? What is it to be blind? What is it to believe in the Imperial cult? What is it to be a clerk in the Eye of Terror? What is it to love in this setting? What differentiates these humans from us? Etc....

 

Dan did refer to the 'dark times' at BL meaning he did not find as much support for Penitent. Whether that is true, I don't know, but there was, for a time, a seeming push away from 'exploring the setting'. It's interesting to hear your comment about arguing with Publications over The Primarchs, Laurie! And some of those side novels - like Nemesis - had wonderful scenes of daily life (I think that novel falls apart when it's revealed the detective is the monster, and that vanishes).

 

Anyway, this is all a total wish list - this is not a complaint about what has been published, I think of it more as an appeal for building on the very strong legacy that BL and even GW have stretching back to the 90s. 

 

 

I think they can't afford to do this, though I am all for it. I imagine if some random fifteen year old picked up a book expecting lasers and evil aliens but got a novel about a factory worker with split loyalties between his duty to the emperor and his best friend joining a secessionist insurgency they'd be mad. It sucks in our small circle where the depth of the universe is our point of interest, but it makes sense for the scope of what the company needs its novels to do. 

[Draakur]

 

 

 

 

Not sure this is even an appropriate place for this, but I'll try: Laurie, have you ever been influenced by fan-made material (or even just suggestions) when deciding how you'll put a new or as yet untouched Chapter together in your literature? Have other authors, do you know?

Not directly, to my knowledge. But I'll admit that every single story I've ever written has addressed concerns or annoyances that people have expressed in the fan community.

 

'Mortarion's Heart', for example, started off as a checklist of things that people felt didn't make sense, or that had to be explained for it to make proper sense.

 

I guess the writers who engage with the fans the most are the ones who take from those online discussions in terms of inspiration etc. But to directly lift ideas from fan works? Absolutely not.

I think that'd be a killer fan competition, though - some kind of home brew competition, winner gets their successor chapter (and/or a few characters) a cameo in a published novel. Even just an offhand comment from a character in the novel ("Thanks to Captain Reginald T. Fistpunch and his Star Tomatoes, we managed to break the siege!").

I get the feeling this may actually have been done, many moons ago? I'm almost certain there are a few fan-made successors out there that became official by various means...

 

Any chance this sort of thing could ever happen again, Laurie? :)

[b1soul]

The possibility of the Horus Heresy becoming "a setting" as opposed to a linear narrative is one that has been discussed, once the Siege is done. There is precedent already, with un-numbered novels bearing the logo etc.

BL, please make it so...

[DukeLeto69]

 

 

 

 

I also pray - truly pray - for BL novels without battles or fights, or one where these are backgrounded to different ways of visualising the period or wider setting. There are many ways to depict war & confluct, and Id love to see more outside the (battle)box thinking. These 'setting' novels sound promising - it is not just bolters and chainswords reving into the night, it is imperium. What of home fronts, governments, politics, economics, religion, family, even love?

 

Like Eisenhorn?

Oh yes! And Ravenor, Bequin, Calpurnia, Dark Heresy, Necromunda etc

And indeed, I've read most of these, and you'll find a fair few posts about Abnett and Farrer on B&C by myself. I guess my dream is the 40K novel where fights occur for less than 5% of it, to pull a random number, and have more play with genre, setting, world building. I know it seems counter to the IP, but it really isn't, because perhaps the most successful example of the IP in text - Eisenhorn - does far more outwith its fights (the pit, the daemons on the ship) and its battle (the conclusion on the alien realm) than in them for making the text work. Heck my favourite moment in the trilogy, although peppered with death, is the train journey in Book 3. And the description of food and drink. And the dense web of references to the two segmentum that feature. And of course the first person voice that is so assured (although not as assured as Pariah's).

 

But it is a start - not a single moment - and still battles and fights are key to the narratives of each of the books and series you listed. I want The Wire or Mad Men or The Americans in 40/30/36?/39K - combining another genre with the setting,, and then saying things about it/the historic origins of the IP/our times/just play.... Guns and fights and marines exist, but what about everything else that supports or even lives in ignorance or spite of them? 40K is a huge sandbox, with its teeming trillions ... I guess I'm curious about them. And it's Dan's work, and Matt's, and the long fluff sections of 2nd edition and 3rd edition rule books, and in games like Inquisitor and Necromunda which evoke them - but don't quite make them solid, those trillions, and the individuals that make up that uncountable number. Sometimes it does happen - even in war series, like Necropolis and then the later books in Gaunt, in particular the WW1 novel, and especially the traitor chapters of Traitor General, the earlier parts of Blood Pact, & much of Salvation's Reach - and also the stories in the last anthology (especially the wonderful story about the clerk after Vervumhive, and the story by Vincent). But is it possible to see more? What is it to be a child in this universe? What is it to be blind? What is it to believe in the Imperial cult? What is it to be a clerk in the Eye of Terror? What is it to love in this setting? What differentiates these humans from us? Etc....

 

Dan did refer to the 'dark times' at BL meaning he did not find as much support for Penitent. Whether that is true, I don't know, but there was, for a time, a seeming push away from 'exploring the setting'. It's interesting to hear your comment about arguing with Publications over The Primarchs, Laurie! And some of those side novels - like Nemesis - had wonderful scenes of daily life (I think that novel falls apart when it's revealed the detective is the monster, and that vanishes).

 

Anyway, this is all a total wish list - this is not a complaint about what has been published, I think of it more as an appeal for building on the very strong legacy that BL and even GW have stretching back to the 90s.

I think they can't afford to do this, though I am all for it. I imagine if some random fifteen year old picked up a book expecting lasers and evil aliens but got a novel about a factory worker with split loyalties between his duty to the emperor and his best friend joining a secessionist insurgency they'd be mad. It sucks in our small circle where the depth of the universe is our point of interest, but it makes sense for the scope of what the company needs its novels to do.

Gonna have to disagree with you there. I have been pretty vocal about my views and won't fully repeat here but...

 

GW need to diversify their product range to appeal to a wider range of customers. Absolutely they need to appeal to early teen boys as they are their future customers. BUT they also need to provide product for older (and arguably more sophisticated) customer groups.

 

Using myself as an example... I am an OLD timer in that I am in my 40s and played W40k Rogue Trader in the late 80s. I played 2nd edition too and then... Never played another game or purchased another model. But I am still a customer due to my love of the IP/setting. I have purchased an insane number of books by GW/FW/BL over the years (every codex for every edition, Imperial Armour and HH black leather books, novels by the hundreds, art books, campaign books etc). And that is ALL about enjoying the setting.

 

I have literally spent 1000s on GW product but zero on models and paint. But they started to lose me a couple of years ago as I noticed the books becoming less interesting and more bolter porn. However, this does seem to be changing again and there have been some great releases... Such as Genestealer Cults and TBA series.

 

The thing is that customers get older and generally speaking their tastes get more sophisticated. Any sensible business will tell you that it is equally important to nurture and retain your existing customers as it is to win new ones. In fact in marketing (what I do at Director level) there are proven formulas showing it is actually more cost effective to retain customers and build brand loyalty than it is to win new customers who generally cost 10 times more to win but will often be worth less in terms of revenue!

 

I will also contradict myself (and you) here by saying that actually it is a dangerous generalism to think all teenage boys want bolter porn. When I was in my early teens I was reading the Dune books and they don't get much more complex and hard to read than that!

 

I think it is about balance and branded product lines. GW/BL definitely need to use books as marketing tools to sell models and games but they can ALSO cater for different tastes and brand those more "adult themed" books accordingly.

 

Ultimately I could of course be totally wrong and the Customer Insight folk at GW will/should have tonnes of data about what does and does not sell and what their customer segments are. The proof would be in sales figures (assuming there is sufficient awareness of the diversity of product range to generate sales in the first place).

 

I would also argue (even though I do not play) that GW should do the same with the 40k rules and go down the Basic and Advanced route to win new customers and satisfy beer and pretzel gamers (the basic rules) and the more serious/tournament gamers (the advanced).

 

As I said, I could be way off but I can't believe there aren't plenty of ex-customers who loved W40k setting who would still buy product if it was aimed at them (but no longer have the time or inclination to play a game of toy soldiers).

 

Edited due to the infuriating auto correct on iPad!

[DukeLeto69]

Laurie - not sure if you can answer this as a now ex employee! Will we be seeing a HH Tallarn omnibus?

 

Also I guess the HH omnibuses are a way to repackage the material more akin to the alternative approach you mentioned on this thread, ie grouped by events/themes/legions/Primarchs. This would clearly give a very different reading experience to following the numbered books in order.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

 

 

I also pray - truly pray - for BL novels without battles or fights, or one where these are backgrounded to different ways of visualising the period or wider setting. There are many ways to depict war & confluct, and Id love to see more outside the (battle)box thinking. These 'setting' novels sound promising - it is not just bolters and chainswords reving into the night, it is imperium. What of home fronts, governments, politics, economics, religion, family, even love?

 

Like Eisenhorn?

Oh yes! And Ravenor, Bequin, Calpurnia, Dark Heresy, Necromunda etc

And indeed, I've read most of these, and you'll find a fair few posts about Abnett and Farrer on B&C by myself. I guess my dream is the 40K novel where fights occur for less than 5% of it, to pull a random number, and have more play with genre, setting, world building. I know it seems counter to the IP, but it really isn't, because perhaps the most successful example of the IP in text - Eisenhorn - does far more outwith its fights (the pit, the daemons on the ship) and its battle (the conclusion on the alien realm) than in them for making the text work. Heck my favourite moment in the trilogy, although peppered with death, is the train journey in Book 3. And the description of food and drink. And the dense web of references to the two segmentum that feature. And of course the first person voice that is so assured (although not as assured as Pariah's).

 

But it is a start - not a single moment - and still battles and fights are key to the narratives of each of the books and series you listed. I want The Wire or Mad Men or The Americans in 40/30/36?/39K - combining another genre with the setting,, and then saying things about it/the historic origins of the IP/our times/just play.... Guns and fights and marines exist, but what about everything else that supports or even lives in ignorance or spite of them? 40K is a huge sandbox, with its teeming trillions ... I guess I'm curious about them. And it's Dan's work, and Matt's, and the long fluff sections of 2nd edition and 3rd edition rule books, and in games like Inquisitor and Necromunda which evoke them - but don't quite make them solid, those trillions, and the individuals that make up that uncountable number. Sometimes it does happen - even in war series, like Necropolis and then the later books in Gaunt, in particular the WW1 novel, and especially the traitor chapters of Traitor General, the earlier parts of Blood Pact, & much of Salvation's Reach - and also the stories in the last anthology (especially the wonderful story about the clerk after Vervumhive, and the story by Vincent). But is it possible to see more? What is it to be a child in this universe? What is it to be blind? What is it to believe in the Imperial cult? What is it to be a clerk in the Eye of Terror? What is it to love in this setting? What differentiates these humans from us? Etc....

 

Dan did refer to the 'dark times' at BL meaning he did not find as much support for Penitent. Whether that is true, I don't know, but there was, for a time, a seeming push away from 'exploring the setting'. It's interesting to hear your comment about arguing with Publications over The Primarchs, Laurie! And some of those side novels - like Nemesis - had wonderful scenes of daily life (I think that novel falls apart when it's revealed the detective is the monster, and that vanishes).

 

Anyway, this is all a total wish list - this is not a complaint about what has been published, I think of it more as an appeal for building on the very strong legacy that BL and even GW have stretching back to the 90s.

I think they can't afford to do this, though I am all for it. I imagine if some random fifteen year old picked up a book expecting lasers and evil aliens but got a novel about a factory worker with split loyalties between his duty to the emperor and his best friend joining a secessionist insurgency they'd be mad. It sucks in our small circle where the depth of the universe is our point of interest, but it makes sense for the scope of what the company needs its novels to do.

Gonna have to disagree with you there. I have been pretty vocal about my views and won't fully repeat here but...

 

GW need to diversify their product range to appeal to a wider range of customers. Absolutely they need to appeal to early teen boys as they are their future customers. BUT they also need to provide product for older (and arguably more sophisticated) customer groups.

 

Using myself as an example... I am an OLD timer in that I am in my 40s and played W40k Rogue Trader in the late 80s. I played 2nd edition too and then... Never played another game or purchased another model. But I am still a customer due to my love of the IP/setting. I have purchased an insane number of books by GW/FW/BL over the years (every codex for every edition, Imperial Armour and HH black leather books, novels by the hundreds, art books, campaign books etc). And that is ALL about enjoying the setting.

 

I have literally spent 1000s on GW product but zero on models and paint. But they started to lose me a couple of years ago as I noticed the books becoming less interesting and more bolter porn. However, this does seem to be changing again and there have been some great releases... Such as Genestealer Cults and TBA series.

 

The thing is that customers get older and generally speaking their tastes get more sophisticated. Any sensible business will tell you that it is equally important to nurture and retain your existing customers as it is to win new ones. In fact in marketing (what I do at Director level) there are proven formulas showing it is actually more cost effective to retain customers and build brand loyalty than it is to win new customers who generally cost 10 times more to win but will often be worth less in terms of revenue!

 

I will also contradict myself (and you) here by saying that actually it is a dangerous generalism to think all teenage boys want bolter porn. When I was in my early teens I was reading the Dune books and they don't get much more complex and hard to read than that!

 

I think it is about balance and branded product lines. GW/BL definitely need to use books as marketing tools to sell models and games but they can ALSO cater for different tastes and brand those more "adult themed" books accordingly.

 

Ultimately I could of course be totally wrong and the Customer Insight folk at GW will/should have tonnes of data about what does and does not sell and what their customer segments are. The proof would be in sales figures (assuming there is sufficient awareness of the diversity of product range to generate sales in the first place).

 

I would also argue (even though I do not play) that GW should do the same with the 40k rules and go down the Basic and Advanced route to win new customers and satisfy beer and pretzel gamers (the basic rules) and the more serious/tournament gamers (the advanced).

 

As I said, I could be way off but I can't believe there aren't plenty of ex-customers who loved W40k setting who would still buy product if it was aimed at them (but no longer have the time or inclination to play a game of toy soldiers).

 

Edited due to the infuriating auto correct on iPad!

I'm all for market testing to see how the reception of a cerebral thriller or political novel would be received. Maybe an ebook only release with paperback depending on sales to prevent a loss if it tanks. It's not grossly generalistic either, man. If you were reading Dune as a kid you fall directly into a very thin demographic slice of the young male reader. I'd have to dig in an do a lot of research to prove this quantitatively, and I really don't want to do that, mostly because I don't have any of the resources from school. Broadly speaking, consider a few things. Most young readers are girls (hence Hunger Games, 50 Shades, and Twilight phenomenons). Of the young men that do read science fiction and fantasy, video game and licenses vastly oversell original content (Halo, Starcraft, and our very own 40k). Of that group an even smaller percentage double dip into original content, and that is the target market for the books we are talking about. I am part of that demographic, and would love this kind of book, but it would be a financial risk for a small house like BL to drop the resources for a hardback print release globally when the target is already a small portion of their own reader base. I guess I'm old enough now Ive gone beyond the demographic in question, and it sounds like you are older than I am, so that only means we fit an even smaller niche.

 

Again, I'd love an 'adult' range (not like that :P) but I just can't see it happening without 40k reaching a larger audience. It's still a predominantly male, predominantly white middle class, predominantly western market that buys these products and that demographic is shrinking globally.

 

Edit: If Black Library really wanted to hit pay dirt, release a young adult novel with a female protagonist and watch the cash pour in. Marketing to women has been lucrative for everyone who's tried it successfully and 40k is actually one of the most futurist settings in regards to gender so you don't run into the problems fantasy has.

[DukeLeto69]

Marshal Rohr (I won't quote as getting too long)... Yeah you are probably right and the idea of an ebook test is a good one. However, there is an awareness job to do I still maintain you could win back "dads who used to play" if you cater for them.

 

EDIT - actually targeting ex player Dads could be pretty effective. Kid sees Dad reading books and asks "what's that?" and Dad introduces kid to GW = second generation customers. This won't happen if Dad locks his toy soldiers in the loft (or sold them on eBay when he got hitched) but product (in books) that allows Dad to still enjoy the IP/setting will spark interest in the kid! Word Of Mouth marketing!

 

In terms of sales and finding an audience/customer base I could argue that the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books suggest otherwise (supposedly big sellers) though can't speak for Calpurnia (possibly not).

 

I would also say that the evidence regarding forthcoming releases does seem to indicate that BL are starting to re-enter a more adult focused (possibly darker, more complex, away from battlefield - or at least non bolter porn) territory with books like The Carrion Throne and Resurrection: The Horusian Wars.

 

I LOLLED for real on your young adult fiction aimed at girls. Actually an interesting idea commercially but "oh the horror"

[Marshal Rohr]

Young women outperform young men in most academic subjects across the board. It's an untapped reservoir, and 40k is the kind of escapism that the market shows appeals to young female readers. Hunger Games is a bad example because the largest drama in the novel is picking a Hemsworth or a short dude who like cakes. I don't know if BL could successfully tap into the market with so much sausage in their writers stable, but I'm all for 40k becoming a huge franchise and the fastest ways to do that are start printing in Chinese or write fiction targeting Western tween girls.

[DukeLeto69]

Also worth saying...

 

I believe I am right in saying that the Gaunt's Ghost books are the best selling books ver published by BL (possibly some of the HH books sold better?)

 

We wouldn't accuse GG books of being bolter porn (or more accurately Lasgun porn) because of Dan Abnett's excellent world building and scene setting. Some of those books give a really great taste of what it is like to live in 40k on both Imperial and Chaos worlds. We need more of that!

 

But they are still a good marketing vehicle for selling models kits of imperial Guard (oops Astra Militarum) but they read so much better than most with strong characters you care about.

[Mellow]

All GW/BL need in my opinion is to release a truly decent MMORPG that allows us older "fans" to immerse ourselves in the lore that we've known for so long. Providing everything that appeared in the game was canon then it would be good. It would allow the younger players or new to the IP players to become a fighting character of any race so they could feast on the violence whilst the more laid back older players could do inquisition style play where they are wrapped up in a long and interesting storyline.

 

That would be my ideal scenario.

[veterannoob]

As far as I'm concerned HH i already (thankfully) a setting.

[DarkChaplain]

All GW/BL need in my opinion is to release a truly decent MMORPG that allows us older "fans" to immerse ourselves in the lore that we've known for so long. Providing everything that appeared in the game was canon then it would be good. It would allow the younger players or new to the IP players to become a fighting character of any race so they could feast on the violence whilst the more laid back older players could do inquisition style play where they are wrapped up in a long and interesting storyline.

 

That would be my ideal scenario.

 

I couldn't disagree more with the MMO point. While yes, it would certainly be cool, they'd have to make a bazillion of changes to how the setting works, which then would run counter to the established lore. Just think about the character classes/races for a moment. Space Marines don't act on their own. While raids and dungeons would work well enough, the solo experience would be ridiculous. You'd also have to account for differences in rank, and at some point the population of Captains would be ridiculous.

Then you have the gear progression problem. Power Armour has a few variants, but you don't switch them out on stats basis.

 

Even an MMOFPS/TPS would struggle because you cannot guarantee an authentic feel. Eternal Crusade tried that, and found it impossible to make work, and it is a pale shadow of what was promised.

 

Even if they were to take things in a more Inquisitor-related direction, you'd have to account for retinue classes to go solo as well, and while proper parties or guilds could make it work on a roleplay server, the general player population would expect freedom to do what they please, which is not going to work within the lore.

 

To me, 40k games work at their best when they are well-directed experiences for singleplayer or potentially coop. RTS works because the whole thing is abstract in general, and you can constrict the army composition with limits, but the player is always up above the battlefield, not a cog within it. It works with games like Space Marine, because you're on your own with AI buddies to kill greenskins, and while it exaggerates the prowess of a Space Marine, it can actually do that effectively because you're the only player in the game. The Multiplayer died off pretty quickly, however.

 

I'd love to see a TellTale Games style Adventure title, ala The Walking Dead, The Wolf Among Us or Batman. Do it about the Inquisition. Have a small retinue, tell a story with some branches to account for different philosophies, allowing the player to be a puritan or radical at varying degrees, and have them chase a heretic leader and get involved in some big conspiracy.

 

THAT is the game that I see having the biggest appeal to the mainstream gaming audience right now. MMOs are pretty much over. Only a few can hold themselves beyond the F2P market, and F2P is very difficult to pull off unless you can throw boobs around like those Koreans. But tight, potentially episodic adventure games with good voice acting that can show a more close-up view of the setting itself? Those are still going well. The demand has been there for a while, it is just up to a developer to pull it off. I'm confident that TellTale could, especially if they got help from Black Library authors for the story, but I doubt they have the time in their schedule right now, since they're still deep in licensing deals like Guardians of the Galaxy, The Walking Dead and probably Batman.

[Arkangilos]

I'd love to see an Imperial Guard battlefield type game.

 

As for MMO's it's possible if you don't make it where Space Marines are possible.

 

Inquisitors don't need parties or warbands, they can act alone. But you could also be a missionary, a bounty hunter, and a gun for hire. You could actually make a compelling story involving minor people (the bounty hunter, gun for hire, and possibly even an undercover arbite). None of them require parties, and each could have an interesting story arc involving some hive world that the MMO takes place on.

[LaurieJGoulding]

Laurie - not sure if you can answer this as a now ex employee! Will we be seeing a HH Tallarn omnibus?

 

 

Already confirmed by myself and John French, IIRC. Expect it later this year.

[HeritorA]

I've spoken many times about why the story split into so many narratives at the end of 'Fulgrim', but I reckon that's going to need a video explanation at some point. Watch this space.

 

The intention of the numbered volumes was that they would be the core storyline, to be read in that linear order. It's not a linear chronology of storytelling, which some people seem to think it should be - that's impossible, when you have 18 Legions and their primarchs all doing things at the same time. But more on that another day.

 

So far, we've seen 'The Honoured' and 'The Unburdened' as un-numbered novels (NOT NOVELLAS!) as well as 'Sons of the Forge' more recently. I've not commissioned any more until BL finished the Siege of Terra, now... but I dare say that we will see more of those un-numbered stories in future.

 

===

 

The colour banding was an interesting one. There WAS a method to it, at least in the beginning. RED was for the opening trilogy, and then there was another colour for a novel focusing on a specific event, another focusing on a specific Legion, another focusing on a specific primarch, etc etc. YELLOW was for anything in the Age of Darkness... and then suddenly, when I questioned it in 2011, we realised that this was a really flawed filing system... AND that there were at least three mistakes already.

 

So we decided to scrap it. Simple.

 

Future reprints will be without the coloured bands. I believe the platinum-blue foiled editions of older books are already colour-band free.

 

You had your hands with Sons of the Forge - i'm really sadden to hear that. It was HORRIBLE. Glad you will not commission more like that.

 

 

Oh, there's already a wishlist of Scouring-era stories...

 

Whose doing Eskrandor? The Beast Arises shown that you could do good things but also very blank and uninteresting ones. Hope Scouring being a main serie after the HH would have headliners writing it :)

[HeritorA]

Thankful I'm sure we'll see the Unification Wars as well as more Great Crusade through Primarchs series as well at the very least. If next TBA is scouring or Age Of Apostacy that's cool, but I hold true I'll see the Unification Wars before I die. And with my name being Kenny, that could be at any time

You will not live to see it ;) HH started as 'quick event' and see where it leads us. The Scouring would be the same :)

''Mortarion's Heart', for example, started off as a checklist of things that people felt didn't make sense, or that had to be explained for it to make proper sense.'

Part of the aim of 'The Primarchs' novels was to be at least 50% Great Crusade era stuff, because there were no plans to do a GC series. That was the best I could get Publications to agree to, at the time - it was either that or EVEN MORE limited edition HH novellas...

IMHO 100% of The Primarchs books should have been Great Crusade focused! A great way to explore without doing it as part of core HH series.

Exactly, instead the first Primarchs book about Buirlliman was so horrible that a lot of people I know simply will not read anything with 'primarchs' to it. It was bad, unreadable event about nothing made as a beginning of the serie.

I'm pretty sure Mr Thorpe hasn't been in the murderers call and seen that my fluff contains a ship called the long shadows that I've had for longer than his novel.

But still i'll have to change that when battlefleet gothic comes back out

It did a long time ago - did you missed that lol?

- and after it more things didn't made any sense.

[helterskelter]

Heritora I have literally no idea what you just said

[HeritorA]

Also worth saying...

 

I believe I am right in saying that the Gaunt's Ghost books are the best selling books ver published by BL (possibly some of the HH books sold better?)

 

We wouldn't accuse GG books of being bolter porn (or more accurately Lasgun porn) because of Dan Abnett's excellent world building and scene setting. Some of those books give a really great taste of what it is like to live in 40k on both Imperial and Chaos worlds. We need more of that!

 

But they are still a good marketing vehicle for selling models kits of imperial Guard (oops Astra Militarum) but they read so much better than most with strong characters you care about.

Indeed it is so. Even through Abnett is called mister 'damn the back/lore' Abnett  - his prose is amazing/storybuiliding awesome. Gaunt Ghosts always would be an exemplar first starter for anyone new to the setting. He only lucks with the endings. They are all rushed. That's one of his issues - he creates an epic stories, but slowly forgets that he has a page count. So what we prepared to be an epic ending - ends flat and in 2-3 pages max.

Actually that's the problem of 90 % of BL authors

Heritora I have literally no idea what you just said

Battlefleet gothic duology of Execution hour and Shadowpoint were released a long time ago. Battlefleet gothic the game was released in 2016. What else battlefleet Gothic do you want?

[helterskelter]

The tabletop kind. To be renewed. With heresy Era Gloriana class vessels If possible. What else would I be talking about, given I've only seen you in news and rumours other than here?

Also, because you don't venture elsewhere i'll let you off that silly comment.

[DukeLeto69]

 

Also worth saying...

I believe I am right in saying that the Gaunt's Ghost books are the best selling books ver published by BL (possibly some of the HH books sold better?)

We wouldn't accuse GG books of being bolter porn (or more accurately Lasgun porn) because of Dan Abnett's excellent world building and scene setting. Some of those books give a really great taste of what it is like to live in 40k on both Imperial and Chaos worlds. We need more of that!

But they are still a good marketing vehicle for selling models kits of imperial Guard (oops Astra Militarum) but they read so much better than most with strong characters you care about.

 

Indeed it is so. Even through Abnett is called mister 'damn the back/lore' Abnett  - his prose is amazing/storybuiliding awesome. Gaunt Ghosts always would be an exemplar first starter for anyone new to the setting. He only lucks with the endings. They are all rushed. That's one of his issues - he creates an epic stories, but slowly forgets that he has a page count. So what we prepared to be an epic ending - ends flat and in 2-3 pages max.

Actually that's the problem of 90 % of BL authors

I would agree with the issue on his endings for many of Dan Abnett's books (not all but many). Often thought he needed a bit more page count latitude to get a fully satisfactory pay off and felt that his 416pg books needed to be 448pg!

[DarkChaplain]

I'm still confused as to how he ended The Unremembered Empire in such a weird "oh, by the way, Sanguinius, you'll be neo Emperor now" way within a few pages, and still managed to write one of the shortest HH novels in recent history.

From what I gleam from Laurie's explanations, BL does leave some room to toy with, and if anybody could make his weight work for him, it is Dan.

 

It is one of the things I frequently lament with Abnett: He writes amazing content, but falls short in the end. His novels end abruptly, leaving me asking "that's it?" usually. He might even be ending at the right spot, but the way he does just isn't up to the rest of the book in quality.

This isn't even a recent thing, though I believe it has gotten worse; Eisenhorn had similar troubles in Hereticus, and Know No Fear, or Prospero Burns, also did. Nevermind I Am Slaughter where he spent most of the novel about anything but the actual Ork invasion and killed everybody off-screen.

 

That's, in part, why I am honestly not a fan of the idea of Abnett writing the finale of the Siege of Terra. I want to be able to put down the final book with satisfaction, not being dumbfounded at an abrupt ending of the Emperor mindblasting Horus within the last 3 pages.

[HeritorA]

The tabletop kind. To be renewed. With heresy Era Gloriana class vessels If possible. What else would I be talking about, given I've only seen you in news and rumours other than here?

Also, because you don't venture elsewhere i'll let you off that silly comment.

You want a renewed version of an old one - really?

Someone hasn't been paying attention to the Battlefleet gothic the game thread?

I'll let you off that silly comment of yours.

 

 

 

Also worth saying...

I believe I am right in saying that the Gaunt's Ghost books are the best selling books ver published by BL (possibly some of the HH books sold better?)

We wouldn't accuse GG books of being bolter porn (or more accurately Lasgun porn) because of Dan Abnett's excellent world building and scene setting. Some of those books give a really great taste of what it is like to live in 40k on both Imperial and Chaos worlds. We need more of that!

But they are still a good marketing vehicle for selling models kits of imperial Guard (oops Astra Militarum) but they read so much better than most with strong characters you care about.

Indeed it is so. Even through Abnett is called mister 'damn the back/lore' Abnett  - his prose is amazing/storybuiliding awesome. Gaunt Ghosts always would be an exemplar first starter for anyone new to the setting. He only lucks with the endings. They are all rushed. That's one of his issues - he creates an epic stories, but slowly forgets that he has a page count. So what we prepared to be an epic ending - ends flat and in 2-3 pages max.

Actually that's the problem of 90 % of BL authors

I would agree with the issue on his endings for many of Dan Abnett's books (not all but many). Often thought he needed a bit more page count latitude to get a fully satisfactory pay off and felt that his 416pg books needed to be 448pg!

 

or 468 :)

[DukeLeto69]

 

Laurie - not sure if you can answer this as a now ex employee! Will we be seeing a HH Tallarn omnibus?

 

 

Already confirmed by myself and John French, IIRC. Expect it later this year.

I missed that but thanks that is great news (for me anyway).

[DukeLeto69]

I'm still confused as to how he ended The Unremembered Empire in such a weird "oh, by the way, Sanguinius, you'll be neo Emperor now" way within a few pages, and still managed to write one of the shortest HH novels in recent history.

From what I gleam from Laurie's explanations, BL does leave some room to toy with, and if anybody could make his weight work for him, it is Dan.

 

It is one of the things I frequently lament with Abnett: He writes amazing content, but falls short in the end. His novels end abruptly, leaving me asking "that's it?" usually. He might even be ending at the right spot, but the way he does just isn't up to the rest of the book in quality.

This isn't even a recent thing, though I believe it has gotten worse; Eisenhorn had similar troubles in Hereticus, and Know No Fear, or Prospero Burns, also did. Nevermind I Am Slaughter where he spent most of the novel about anything but the actual Ork invasion and killed everybody off-screen.

 

That's, in part, why I am honestly not a fan of the idea of Abnett writing the finale of the Siege of Terra. I want to be able to put down the final book with satisfaction, not being dumbfounded at an abrupt ending of the Emperor mindblasting Horus within the last 3 pages.

For me he is streets ahead of almost anyone* else in the BL stable in terms of ideas, world building, characters and initially plotting but yes I agree Dan Abnett's endings are his Achilles heal! The Unremembered Empire being a really good example of a "huh, what, that was sudden" ending.

 

Dan Abnett often espouses how he needs to have multiple projects running concurrently to keep his writing fresh and avoid writers block. He says (for example) that he likes to spend the morning writing a few chapters of a BL book and the afternoon scripting a Comic for another publisher. That seems sensible and clearly works for him (I don't think there is any shortage of ideas and can't think of an example, certainly in his BL work, where he has repeated himself) BUT I wonder whether sometimes he has TOO MANY projects on the go at once and too many deadlines to hit and therefore rushes to finish (hence TUE being shorter than normal)?

 

As I only read his BL work (not a fan of comics and certainly not Marvel or DC type material...still fond memories of 2000AD, and not interested in any other tie in fiction universes) this can be very frustrating as I want more from him, lots more. But then that is just me being a greedy entitled fanboy!

 

Saying that, his original novels have been good...Triumf and Embedded.

 

On the Siege of Terra / final HH novel - I have an idea of how I would personally like to see the "key scene" approached but that would be wildly off topic so might start another thread.

 

*ADB is nipping at his heals but sadly is not very prolific. Peter Fehervari (sp?) has immense potential but I have only so far read shorts and Genestealer Cults (need to track down a copy of Firecaste). Matthew Farrer does wonderful world building but sometimes his prose and story structure can be a little too clever! I haven't read enough John French yet to know (Ahriman and Tallarn omnibuses hurry up) but loved his short stories very much.