General Discussion Secundus

[~Drakzilla~]

My only problem with replacing units is that there's no examples of any Canon legions that have multiple replacement units, as Sigi has here. In fact, the only one is the Space Wolves, who lose two units and get one in exchange. (albeit one that has two main builds)

Just a few of the other legions either have a single unique Consul (WB and AL), or an optional Praetor upgrade (IH and IW).

 

If you want to show off the uniqueness of the legion, that's what the Legiones Astartes rules and other stipulations are for. But replacing half the army list with versions of units that are basically those units +1 is not the way to do that. Aside from potentially throwing off the power balance of the legions.

[Kelborn]

Question

My striking shadow squads are my infiltrators \ sabotage experts, sometimes led by a psyker

 

Could I replace seeker squads and the like with them?

 

Or what are the circumstances?

[MikhalLeNoir]

Why replace them at all? Those are just more specialized troops who use their abilities to become better seekers.

 

If we stsrt to replace all units, then we work around our given limits.

 

I mean, who needs assault troops if he can get sitheadair instead? Or storm blast instead of normal heavy support. I second drak here. Just renaming is enough instead of plus normal unit plus +1.

 

Maybe as a compromise: replace 2 units with one as it is done by the wolves. So we keep that balanced.

[Sigismund229]

@drak: I had no intention of using all those units. I was asking the group which ones people thought I should ditch and which I should keep

 

so units which replace existing parts of the list

 

Gutuatros(replaces librarian&chaplain), myrvallen(replaces praetor), rix(replaces centurion), trodaiar(breacher replacements).

 

Of those, Trodaiar are probably distinct eniugh from breachers in what they do given that they are more killy at the cost of being squishier. So Trodaiar don't need to replace breachers. That's one I threw in because I thought it might be unfair kf Lions had access to both Trodaiar and Breachers.

 

Gutuatri can't really be adequately represented by an existing unit and it ould feel quite odd if they co existed with librarians and chaplains. So that replacement stays.

 

The champion, myrvallen&rix are all consul replacements. While I'd quote like to get them in there, now that I have a framework to go off in the form of the Wolves rules, I'll fiddle with the CL legion rules to see if I can relresent them there instead.

 

So with that, the CL roster woukd look like so

 

Unique Units: Getae, Galloglaich, Trodaiar.

Characters: Yet to be decided

Wargear: Falcan Blade

Replacement Units: Gutuatri.

 

So I need to find 2 characters at least and if I decide to do another 3 unique units then I need to do units that don't use or emphasise shields(or at least minimally). And I need to give them names which don't begin with g

 

@kel: If they're more specialised variants of units already in the legion list I wouldn't. I'd keep replacing units for units whose role can't be adequately conveyed by the existing legion list(I know rich coming from me. It's easier to give advice than follow it)

Edited February 5, 2017 by Sigismund229

[foamy248]

Stupid question, but does our universe really need to have lost primarchs? I mean, the point of them in the canonverse is to give players some freedom with fluff (so they can make their own), and for various fluff reasons (adding an element of complexity, mystery, etc). None of these reasons really apply to us. Just askin'

[Chief Captain Redd]

@Foamy; when we first started this (iirc) I think the conclusion was that it's our tribute to the source material, we still wanted to have some connection and bond to the main Universe.

Also I remember us being nervous about not getting 18-20 players to fill up Legion slots, hence why some people have/had two Legions.

But I admit I do absolutely see your point, if we knew it was going to grow as it has we might have done differently.

[foamy248]

@Foamy; when we first started this (iirc) I think the conclusion was that it's our tribute to the source material, we still wanted to have some connection and bond to the main Universe.

Also I remember us being nervous about not getting 18-20 players to fill up Legion slots, hence why some people have/had two Legions.

But I admit I do absolutely see your point, if we knew it was going to grow as it has we might have done differently.

Hmm. Fair enough, just wondering 

[MikhalLeNoir]

Wr can still change that amd bring simison on the edge of insanity^^

[bluntblade]

Awe, don't negate my Alex and Magnus story

[MikhalLeNoir]

And blunt too^^

[Kelborn]

Anarchy! ^^

Malal will rise again! :P

[TheBlindPrimarch]

Not gong to lie, still wish I had been able to get my Primarch into this amazing universe. Even if just to help me develop him to a fuller extent. Compared to most of the Legions in this project Amarthanar and the Paladins have a long way to go...

[Skalpynock]

Don't worry, I have found a way to introduce Mihran in this universe somehow…

[Chief Captain Redd]

@TBP if you ever need to bounce ideas off someone or need some suggestions I'll gladly give a hand. And I would bet other Fraters would be willing, and that's why our are solid we benefit from each other.

[Kelborn]

Think that they could fit the Wardens of Light or the Predators quite well. :)

 

If you want, we can talk about a niche for them.

[simison]

@Foamy; when we first started this (iirc) I think the conclusion was that it's our tribute to the source material, we still wanted to have some connection and bond to the main Universe.

Also I remember us being nervous about not getting 18-20 players to fill up Legion slots, hence why some people have/had two Legions.

But I admit I do absolutely see your point, if we knew it was going to grow as it has we might have done differently.

 

Yeah, believe it or not, we didn't have a full roster when we started. I even sent out PMs to some Lost Legion projects that were going on at the time and didn't get a response. Otherwise, I would have made it a strict one person-one legion. Even then, we've lost a couple of people over the years from lack of interest to outright disappearing on us. 

 

But I had always intended the Lost Legions to be canon legions as a tribute and as a mild joke. Back then, I was trying to decide between the Thousand Sons or the Blood Angels. Went with the Thousand Sons since it made it easier to tie them into the Space Wolves becoming Lost. 

[Sigismund229]

Question: Does anyone know if it's possible to add rules to units in the legion list without making part of the legion rules or RoW?(seeing as we're limited to 3 legion rules)

 

I'm thinking specifically of praetors. Atm I have a rule called Blood Debt in my legion rules which essentialy means that CL warlords(in all likelihood a praetor) must always accept a challenge if one is issued and if its possible to do so issue one and if they get killed then the CL need to avenge their death and if they don't the enemy gets a 1VP(avengr him by killing the squad or character who killed him).

 

I was wondering if I could switch that out of my legion rules and RoW onto the praetor&centurions.

[Chief Captain Redd]

I didn't think we had a specific rule limit, guidelines for sure. In fact I was just talking to Simi about a rule to represent Iron Bear forces that survived the DoR.

That being said, I don't think your rule in question is too big of an issue as, it's very specific and only gives you a slight chance to earn 1-3 extra VPs, so it's cool with me at least.

[Skalpynock]

 

 

After would have made perfect sense to me, with the UM being aware of the dangers of the Warp.

 

Before makes it more hardcore.

 

 

One interesting thing in this book is that it actually does include all the votes from Nikaea, so we now finally know what each and every Primarch thought about the psyker issue. Guilliman was actually in favor of the Librarius... Wait. Let me just take a photo of that box, it's too interesting. I'll edit it back into this in a minute

 

http://i.imgur.com/kp3qg52.jpg?1

 

From Inferno, currently starting on the Vizenko equivalent list. I need the opinions of Icarion, Alex, Niklaas, Gwal, K'awil, and Andezo, as well as non-primarch higher ups (apart from Imperator, Valdor and Malcador, whose neutrality I retained)

 

Note that if Andezo is against, I'm using him in Jackel's place.

 

 

EDIT: So far it looks like this:

 

Those present at the prosecution of Baal's known stance on the experimentation on Gene-Seed in the Legiones Astartes

 

The Emperor: Even in these latter years, it is frowned upon to speculate at the Emperor's hidden plans, and it is impossible to accurately guess His intentions for the conclave.

 

Malcador the Sigillite, High Proconsul Imperialis: Unknown

 

Kelbor-Hal, Fabricator-General of Mars: Proponent of experimentation

 

Constantin Valdor of the Custodian Guard: Favoured neither side

 

Kozja Darzalas, Lord of the IX Legion**: Adamantly in favour

 

The Jade General, Lord of the XVII Legion**: Proponent of experimentation

 

Raktra Akarro, Lord of the VII Legion*: Proponent of experimentation

 

Azus Bahamut, Lord of the XIV Legion: Vehemently against

 

Daer'dd Niimkiikaa, Lord of the VI Legion: Favoured Darzalas' censure

 

Pionus Santor, Lord of the XIX Legion: Vehemently against

 

Andezo Sambedi, Lord of the XX Legion: Vehemently against

 

Those Primarchs not personally present at the prosecution of Baal's known stance on the experimentation on Gene-Seed in the Legiones Astartes

 

Hectarion Mycenor, Lord of the III Legion: Vehemently against

 

Yucahu Sumakutaa, Lord of the IV Legion: Openly favoured neither side, but known to favour Darzalas' censure

 

Koschei Kharkovic, Lord of the VIII Legion*: Favoured neither side

 

Alejos Travier, Lord of the XIII Legion*: Supported experimentation

 

Sorrowsworn Morro, Lord of the XVI Legion*: Supported experimentation

 

Nomus Sardauk, Lord of the XVIII Legion**: Less vocal proponent of experimentation

 

*These leaders later threw their support behind the Stormlord during the darker days of the Icarion Insurrection

**These leaders later threw their support behind the False Empire of the Suzerainty

Edited February 7, 2017 by Skalpynock

[Kelborn]

Andezo Sambedi - Vehemently against

 

Why?

 

Evolution should be regulated by nature itself. The gene enhancements (Astartes, Custodes, etc.) done by the Emperor shall be means to an end, not the next step for mankind. Mankind will adapt automatically. It is a natural process of adaption and not a rush intervention by scientists.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Gwal cam see the benefit of enhancements but reminds of the dangers which can occur. Mutants and failed experiments were often encountered during the great crusade.

[simison]

Alex is comfortable with Santor's emphasis on micro changes for adaptation but not Kozja's more aggressive experiments.

 

When asked about the censure itself, he replies that he trusts the Emperor's judgement.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Nomus considers gene-augmentation a highly useful tool to humanity but isn't the crazed fan of it that Kozja and the Jade General are, he's more along the lines of enhancing humanity rather than altering it, things like eliminating genetic diseases/flaws rather than "oh hey, now my skin can bend light around me for rudimentary invisibility, my eyes can see in several spectrums and I can spit acid!" He's seen the slippery slope the Qarith represent and is treading more carefully than his fellow Suzerainists, genetic manipulation being too useful to ignore completely in his eyes. Edited February 7, 2017 by SanguiniusReborn

[Raktra]

The representative speaking for the White Devil would share that his Primarch is strongly in favour of Kozja's methods, citing their own creation process and the existence of the Custodes as his evidence, and claiming that, had they been stronger (be it mentally, physically, or spiritually), Russ and Magnus' Legions wouldn't have needed to be wiped out.

[Nomus Sardauk]

and claiming that, had they been stronger (be it mentally, physically, or spiritually), Russ and Magnus' Legions wouldn't have needed to be wiped out.

Ooooooh boy, now there's an opinion that's gonna go over well, good thing the Berzerkers don't have any friends to lose huh?

Edited February 7, 2017 by SanguiniusReborn