General Discussion Secundus

[bluntblade]

Are Legions besides Tempestus and Mortis involved? Alex saves the latter and cripples the former (btw Sim, do you reckon you might be able to do those additions soon?)

[bluntblade]

Thought. How about Zagreus Kane is done in by the Grave Stalkers? Dunno how feasible it is, mind

[Talonair]

The Legio Carnifex from the Abyssii will be present, along with the Spectris Lancaea knight house

[Chief Captain Redd]

The Knights from House Blintrubas are on the Dragon, if you want to include them.

[Kelborn]

Short question:

 

Is there any of the main battles we want to cover in our books (besides Terra of course) in which the Predators might participate? Or where the Ghost Walkers once had a part in it?

[Sigismund229]

Short question:

 

Is there any of the main battles we want to cover in our books (besides Terra of course) in which the Predators might participate? Or where the Ghost Walkers once had a part in it?

Remind me, the main body of the Predators legion turn traitor just before Terra?

 

Also, I agree with blunt&co. The Schism of Mars is an important event, it deserves a place in the main books rather than being shunted aside

Edited January 25, 2017 by Sigismund229

[Talonair]

I can get started on writing some of the lead up to the Schism, starting with th Death of Innocence if people want?

[Kelborn]

Right.

9 tribes turned traitor shortly before Terra

One was extinct previously

Ebonspears are lost

Two tribes (the most loyal ones) are looking for the Ebonspears in order to find Adewale and to stop Andezo before making a mistake

[Sigismund229]

In that case....counter attack on the Eastern Fringe?

 

On a different topic

 

A WIP section about non CL loyalists in the Blood Crusade. Anyone see any glaring faults?

 

The Blood Crusade being, in effect, an invasion of the Dominion, as can be expected it was the Crimson Lions and Leonic Auxilia along with troops from the Dominion’s vassals who bore the brunt of the fighting. However, fierce in battle though they were, the Crimson Lions were facing much of the might of two legions and lacked the numbers to mount a capable defence on every world of the Dominion. Especially in the early days of the Blood Crusade, when the Crimson Lions were still blind to what was occurring, many worlds were left undefended. Into this gap in the defence stepped the elements of other loyalist legions who had found themselves in the Dominion when the Blood Crusade began.

 

Most famous of these are, without a doubt, the Halycon Wardens. In many cases, they were not simply dregs of shattered forces who had found themselves washed up in the Dominion. Instead, the thousands of Halycon Wardens stationed in the Dominion had been deployed their as garrisons in the years leading up to the Insurrection by their primarch, the Warmaster. It is estimated that at the start of the Insurrection, almost 11,000 Halycon Wardens were deployed in garrisons across the Dominion and while this number had doubtless dwindled due to withdrawals to Terra, most believe it to have halved, by the time of the Blood Crusade, there was still a not insignificant Vth legion presence throughout the Blood Crusade. To these can be added Halycon Wardens who had been rerouted to the Dominion by the warp storms at the beginning of the Insurrection or had fled there as refugees from shattered garrisons of captured worlds or from fleets protecting trade convoys that had been fallen upon by the traitor legions and even veterans of the battle of the Forge. While most legion numbers provided during the Insurrection are little more than estimates, often vague estimates, formal records having been unable to keep up with the relentless flow of casualties and recruits the legions were sustaining, all together perhaps 9000 Halycon Wardens fought in the Blood Crusade.

 

 

On the forest world of Gaia in the south east of the Dominion, a force of some 700 Halycon Wardens, cobbled together from the remnants of companies shattered in the battle of the Forge, fought alongside four knights of the Tewtonik Order in a guerrilla campaign for nearly a year and half. They would stay in the forests of Graia for weeks on end, hunting the traitors who hunted them in turn beneath the forest canopy. Often, the traitors would be putting the torch to a Graian village when all of sudden a purple wave exploded from the forests, either killing them or putting them to flight. As was their custom, the Graians gave their saviours a gift of a green woollen cloak. In absence of camo cloaks, the Halycon Wardens accepted these gladly and used them as ad hoc camouflage beneath the forest canopy. However, in the melee the dense forest frequently forced them into, the Halycon Wardens lacked the savagery of the Berserkers of Uran and so paid a high price for their nobility. By the time a brotherhood of Clan Balda arrived to retake Graia, the Halycon Wardens had been reduced to just 278 brothers, the rest having given their lives for the Emperor’s people.

 

This is just one example of the Halycon Wardens’ heroism. Far more famous is, of course, their participation in the battle of Cadia. However, there are many more unsung stories of the bravery of the sons of the Warmaster, of which record is more difficult to find but were no less costly nor courageous. Indeed, by the end of the Blood Crusade, it is estimate that little over 3000 of the Halycon Wardens in the Dominion at its start remained alive.

 

 

Far less numerous were the Sheperds of Eden. To read their name on the list of those who fought in the Blood Crusade may be a surprise to those who know of the massacre of the Iron Citadel where many of the VIIth legion loyalists made their final stand. Indeed, very few Sheperds of Eden escaped the bloody revenge of their primarch on Aureus. However, none or at most very few of those Sheperds who fought in the Blood Crusade had been present on Aureus. Instead, they had been campaigning to purge the Ixiad gas cluster of the troublesome remnants of the Nephilim. A small force, numbering just 1,936 legionnaires under Captain Kalus Ekkadon at the beginning of the Insurrection, they had not been significant enough a force to merit any special attention from their erstwhile brothers of the Berserkers.

 

 

When they heard of the annihilation of their fellow Sheperds, they decided not to embark on a quest for vengeance. Instead they pledged to die in defence of the Dominion’s people, honouring their fallen brothers’ memories to the last. They kept their word and even before the Blood Crusade protected the Imperium’s people wherever they could, whether from traitor Dune Serpent raiders on Harnoth Prime or against the Warbringers supply foragers in the Iyacrax system. However, this was not without a cost and by the time of the Blood Crusade they were reduced to around 1,100 battle brothers. Yet reduced numbers or no, they continued to live by their word and not once did they abandon a world before all its inhabitants were evacuated. This heroism was to come back to haunt them however, for when Raktra heard that there were Sheperds of Uran in the Dominion he assigned three companies and a demi company of the Blood boilers to hunt them down and destroy them.

 

 

The matter finally came to a head on Iggin. A world of eternal storms and rain, it was in Iggin’s mud that the blood of the Sheperds of Eden and Berserkers of Uran would mingle for the last time. The Sheperds were defending the world’s space port, pouring fire into the onrushing Berserkers of Uran auxiliaries when finally, marching through the churned mud, came the Berserkers themselves. According to refugees who saw the confrontation as they either waited to or boarded transports to ships bound of Caerbannog, all was still for a moment as both sides paused, the silence expressing the hatred that passed between them better than any words. Then the Berserkers charged.

 

 

Sprinting through the ankle high mud faster than any would have believed possible, the Berserkers reached the hurriedly built space port battlements in mere tens of seconds yet already in that time, dozens from the front rank had been mown down by the Sheperds disciplined bolter fire. Punching into the rusted steel with their adamantium gauntlets to create handholds, the Berserkers of Uran began clambering up the battlements, the Blood boilers hurling phosphex bombs onto the battlements, burning Sheperds of Eden alive in their armour. While dozens more were gunned down, they soon began to reach the top, leaping over in vast numbers and hacking apart anything that moved with any weapon they had to hand.

 

 

With the rain pattering off their armour like so many ineffectual bullets, Sheperd and Berserkers fought tooth and claw atop the battlements. Bolters, chainblades, plasma and melta guns, combat knives, phosphex bombs, even gauntlets and sections of metal gantry, torn off to serve as a weapon, even teeth. All were used as weapons. However, no matter their skill, the Sheperds of Eden were outnumbered, badly, and outgunned and eventually were forced further and further back towards the orbital landing platforms.

 

During this confused and desperate fighting, first on the battlements and then in the heart of the space port, Captain Ekkadon received the dubious honour of a dedicated death squad, twenty of Riktus Innorvak’s most brutal apprentices, all rising stars within the Blood boilers. They finally cornered Captain Ekkadon when he was commanding a force of Sheperds of Eden holding off the Berserkers of Uran on landing pad 23. Charging forwards, one of them was felled by a shot from his plasma pistol and when they finally closed into close quarters, they soon isolated Ekkadon from his men. Surrounded and outnumbered he kept fighting, pulverising two’s skulls with his power fist and felling another with a heart shot from his plasma pistol before he was killed, falling to the deck of the landing pad as his life fled from him. The remaining Sheperds of Eden on landing pad 23 were wiped out to a man.

 

 

Like their brothers on Aureus before them, the Sheperds on Iggin suffered irrecoverable losses. Once the last of the refugees had fled to orbit, the remaining Sheperds of Eden formed up on their last surviving officer, Veteran Sergeant Grael Noctua. Under his command, the Sheperds effected an orderly retreat back to their remaining ships. Only 56 of the original 1,100 or so Sheperds made it to their transports and escaped and of these 8 would later die of their wounds. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Sigismund229

[Kelborn]

Sounds good to me (talking about the counter offensive) as their homeworld is situated within the Segmentum Ultima. Could be a staging point for an all out offensive.

 

Against whom they shall fight?

[Grifftofer]

Thought. How about Zagreus Kane is done in by the Grave Stalkers? Dunno how feasible it is, mind

Well I had thoughts that Xtaabay and a contingent of Wraiths that would be unleashed behind enemy lines during the war and basically assassinate important peoples, sabotage things and generally disrupt the forces of the loyalists within Segmentum Solar. So this is definitely a possibility.

[Sigismund229]

Sounds good to me (talking about the counter offensive) as their homeworld is situated within the Segmentum Ultima. Could be a staging point for an all out offensive.

 

Against whom they shall fight?

Originally it would have been the Stygian Jackals but now it would probably be the Steel Legion alongside traitor Dune Serpents. The Predators would likely be launching the counter offensive in concert with the remnants of the Dune Serpents legion...

...

...Hold on to your hats gentlemen. :cuss's about to get interesting

Edited January 25, 2017 by Sigismund229

[Kelborn]

Hmmm

Shall I feel curious or afraid right now? ^^

[bluntblade]

Thanks Sigi. Btw, regarding Iyacrax and how that ends, I feel that your idea for Alex and Icarion being able to negotiate is probably a better hope spot than the Loyalists being allowed to retreat. Particularly as Kozja doesn't seem like the flexible sort.

[Talonair]

 

Thought. How about Zagreus Kane is done in by the Grave Stalkers? Dunno how feasible it is, mind

Well I had thoughts that Xtaabay and a contingent of Wraiths that would be unleashed behind enemy lines during the war and basically assassinate important peoples, sabotage things and generally disrupt the forces of the loyalists within Segmentum Solar. So this is definitely a possibility.

 

 

Mortera by this point would be looking for a way to install herself as Fabricator-General of Mars, and offing Kane is the quickest way to do that. I could see Mortera engineering a situation in which Kane falls prey to this contingent, only to then step in and valiantly save the rest of the people Kane was with

[Sigismund229]

Idea about loyalist traitors seeing as I'm still iffy about them forming successor Orders: why don't they join the Nightguard?

[bluntblade]

That was my plan for every Blackshield that follows Khârn to Terra and survives.

 

I'd like to have a couple of ambiguous ones though, which have been concealed by the Halcyon Wardens as the Ultramarines might have done with the Silver Skulls.

Edited January 25, 2017 by bluntblade

[Sigismund229]

Had two ideas for campaigns in Emancipation other than Icarion's first swipe at Terra:

The Harrying:
By this stage the north-east of the Imperium is something of a meat grinders, with worlds pretty readily switching back and forth between the Imperium and Icarion. Irritated by this state of affairs, Icarion withdraws his "frontline" legions from there and instead sends the Grave Stalkers and traitor Dune Serpents there. Their objective is to launch a campaign of terror that frightens the remaining worlds into submission. Their opponents: Iron Bears? Could demonstrate their lack of skill for defence

?:
The Predators' counter-attack on the Eastern Fringe. Takes place after Alex issues the Edict of Emancipation as the fighting around Seg. Solar, while far from decided, isn't the battle for survival it was before. Seeing an opportunity to try and retake ground lost earlier in the Insurrection, Alex sends the Predators to launch an attack to regain (?) system, a vital warp hub, and re establish contact with the Dune Serpents. Ends with a Dropsite Massacre esc. ambush by the Predators, thus allowing us to show case the advantages the Steel Legion's co ordination give them in a complex withdrawal as well as hammering home the differences between them and the IH.

 

Although, that would leave the pressing question of where we can fit in the battle of the Forge...

Edited January 26, 2017 by Sigismund229

[bluntblade]

One thought - with the war going on so long, we should consider Legions adapting. So the Bears devise new methods to meet their stealthier opponents, albeit suffering as they do so. And in the books we have new units cropping up across the Legions as circumstances change.

[Sigismund229]

One thought - with the war going on so long, we should consider Legions adapting. So the Bears devise new methods to meet their stealthier opponents, albeit suffering as they do so. And in the books we have new units cropping up across the Legions as circumstances change.

That campaign could be about the Iron Bears being forced to adapt and perhaps being unwillong to do so out of veneration of Daer'dd

[bluntblade]

I'm gonna go with them simply being forced to after taking heavy losses. Perhaps a splintering of some Grand Wartribes into smaller, more flexible groupings.

 

The main thrust is that above all, Space Marine Legions are meant to be superlative weapons of conquest, and we need to be sure that none of them come off as flat-footed. I'd save counterproductive adeherence to tradition for when we get into the Age of the Imperium. I reckon the stealthier Insurrectionists should still be working alongside their more conventional allies.

[Nomus Sardauk]

QUICK SIDENOTE:

That sounds like a good origin for an Iron Bears successor Chapter/Cohort, like after the Insurrection the stealth specialised Bears group together into their own impromptu Wartribe that later gets officially recognised and chosen to form the new successor. Maybe they could draw cultural inspiration from Native American tribes (like the IB themselves) like the Mowhawk, Cherokee or Iroquois, ones known for their proficiency in guerrilla warfare and the like?

Edited January 26, 2017 by SanguiniusReborn

[Sigismund229]

I'm gonna go with them simply being forced to after taking heavy losses. Perhaps a splintering of some Grand Wartribes into smaller, more flexible groupings.

 

The main thrust is that above all, Space Marine Legions are meant to be superlative weapons of conquest, and we need to be sure that none of them come off as flat-footed. I'd save counterproductive adeherence to tradition for when we get into the Age of the Imperium. I reckon the stealthier Insurrectionists should still be working alongside their more conventional allies.

By being unwilling what I meant was not that they didn't adapt but more that they find it difficult to adapt to those circumstances and that style of war due to Daer'dd's memory being so strongly embeded in the legion

[Kelborn]

Sounds good to me, Sigg.

So the Steel Legion is trapped in an ambush and is able to make a coordinated withdrawal?

 

Could be a good example to show the diversity of the Predators. :)

[bluntblade]

 

I'm gonna go with them simply being forced to after taking heavy losses. Perhaps a splintering of some Grand Wartribes into smaller, more flexible groupings.

The main thrust is that above all, Space Marine Legions are meant to be superlative weapons of conquest, and we need to be sure that none of them come off as flat-footed. I'd save counterproductive adeherence to tradition for when we get into the Age of the Imperium. I reckon the stealthier Insurrectionists should still be working alongside their more conventional allies.

By being unwilling what I meant was not that they didn't adapt but more that they find it difficult to adapt to those circumstances and that style of war due to Daer'dd's memory being so strongly embeded in the legion

Aha