Female Primarch Project - W.I.P. Rules for the Dawn Lords

[Brother Dougal]

Hello everyone. For those of you who don't know what this is.... well, the title should say a lot. :P

 

If you've never heard of me or my little Lost Legion project, you can find out more about my Primarch Tlatia and her sons the Dawn Lords here in this link.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327453-female-primarch-project-what-is-this-heresy/

 

For the past few months I've been chipping away at this project of mine, along with a few helpers and some very nice fans here. At first it was just some snippets of lore and super-short stories. Then there was a rather large period of writer's block where I almost became discouraged from continuing this. But with some help from friends new and old I'm slowly getting back into the saddle.

 

Among these friends is a person (we'll call this guy Salerno) who actually likes my idea so much that he's decided he wants to build an army around them! I can't tell you how flattered I was by that, really. But it is a bit of a hurdle to me.

 

See, I don't play the tabletop. Never have. Not rich enough to have an army, and no one around to play with even if I was. I mostly read Black Library books or play video games based off of it. So when Salerno wanted to come up with a whole list of Legion Rules to play my Dawn Lords with, I was a little out of my comfort zone. Which brings us to why I'm here now.

 

The guys have been really enthusiastic about churning out ideas for how my Legion would set itself apart. Ideas for units, special equipment, thematic rules, all that sort of thing. It's all over my head so I can't tell what would work, what wouldn't, and what would be broken. But now that we have a good amount of stuff to consider we think it's time to get a few more opinions.

 

So, if anyone's interested, feel free to tell us what you think. Right now it's all just ideas, nothing's set in stone, but if you've anything to add then by all means. Thank you for your consideration, and may the Emperor always protect you.

[Brother Dougal]

Okay, time for the word dump. My little team has been using a chat room for a while now to toss ideas around. I took the time to filter through it all and cut the extra chatter out. Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Do Not want to go back through all that again. But enough expository banter. On to the list!

 

Legion Rules Composition

 

(S=Salerno, D=DAttila, T=Tlatia)

 

(I’ll leave out the fluff for now. That stuff I have memorized anyway)

 

-I was very interested in ironing out rules for the exclusive units. I was going to make a 30 k army, and each army tends to have 1-3 exclusive units. (S)

 

-Panthera, Imix, Blank units (T)

 

-Hover boots (D), Power boards (T)

 

-Dynamic Entry: It's basically a knock-down. It can do damage but the enemy gets all their normal saves. However if it hits, the enemy takes a big initiative hit on their next turn and has to sacrifice their movement phase to recover. (D)

 

-This stuff can make up for how the Dawn Lords overall have less armour. If they don't navigate terrain well and juggle cover and crowd control the enemy, they will take losses. And since they would have to snap fire so often a lot of them just prefer carrying grenade bandoliers as a wargear option. The catch is you get more grenades for cheap, but at the cost that they are exposed and every time you take a hit, there's a roll that says they go boom. The unit can throw the entire bandolier though, get rid of all their remaining grenades and remove associated penalties. One preferred tactic is they throw these like a lasso. (D)

 

-We could potentially give them that same rule that swooping hawks have with the grenade packs on entry. And we'd have to give them some sort of rule that allows a unit to throw more than one grenade, because rules as they are, they can't. (S)

 

-Yeah, I am debating how to approach that one grenade per unit rule. Because we shouldn't make them overpowered either. How about this? They can throw additional grenades by sacrificing their shooting phase. To indicate how they leave their guns to slack on the sling and just get a grenade in each hand. (D)

 

- I listen to this to get inspired for these guys :D

(Legion Theme Song) (D)

 

-I believe that to throw the grenade they have to sacrifice their shooting anyway, but I'm not sure. That's how they play it at the game store that I play at. (S)

 

-Okay, how about a special rule that says they can choose to use their second movement phase as a shooting phase but only if they chose to throw grenades on the shooting phase? So be like "grenades" and then "have some more grenades”. And at any point of those two they could go ":cuss it, have ALL THE GRENADES"!!! Which has them throw their entire bandolier but gets rid of their grenade wargear ability. But to balance it out let's half the range because that's heavy. This way if they choose to do this on their second movement phase it will be... Interesting. There's a very real possibility they kill themselves but not the enemy... xD (D)

 

-Maybe the panthera could have a rule called something like "herald of dread" and they reduce the weapons skill and ballistic skill of those near them, kinda like sicarin infiltrators? (S)

 

 

-Another thing they would need as a special unit is some sort of mortar. Perhaps a land speeder variant modified to be a mobile mortar platform. Mortars are very useful. They can drop smoke, illumination rounds, incendiary, frag or krak shells. So the way I see this play out is you take some mortar speeders and fan them out, put down some pie plates, move them for the Jink save, then depending on how your dice fell, move the infantry in to capitalise. Highly mobile force, lots of pie plates. They would normally have trouble with vehicles but that's why you can bring Graviton weapons. (D)

 

-I don't know how much I personally like mortars, just because they're so incredibly hard to deal with in 30 k, the iron fire tide is awful to play against. Basically all they do is hit you with mortars all game and you can't get anywhere. It's possible to beat, but oppressive to play against. (S)

 

-Oh, for sure. But I think you can agree these guys warrant that level of saturation fire capability. Mortars were THE thing in the Korean and Vietnam war, where terrain was primarily jungle, and this Legion adapted after their home world. (D)

 

-I like the idea of really mobile infantry, because that's unique, and fitting with a mesoamerican themed force. Part of what really attracted me to this legion is the mesoamerican theme, as I'm an archaeologist. So I was focusing more on infantry. (S)

 

-But I see where you're coming from with the artillery! It really does make sense. Maybe some sort of anti-grav mortar? Kind of like the eldar mortars? (S)

 

-Special Devastator unit. My idea is this: These guys are the heavily armed and armoured Temple Guard style units. They hang back with long ranged weapons like Lascannons and use sophisticated targeting to fire through cover and even terrain to hit their mark. So while the others cause havoc, these guys pick off key targets. I am thinking something like a stinger missile. (D)

 

-At most they may have a large, two-handed power weapon to fall back on in case something does get close. I feel like this should be a single-model unit. They are a heavy support choice, but it's only one dude. The unit may be about as much or slightly cheaper than a normal Devastator. (D)

 

-That's a really cool idea. One ignores terrain shot, makes it feel really strategic, and represents the Mayan kinda elite army thing. (S)

-They could have the prototype of later, perfected variants of the Tactical Dreadnought armour. (D)

 

-I think we could easily incorporate the Mayan counting system based on 20 into unit cohesion and organization. The video goes into this but in short, in Mayan, the number 20 is one count. If it's less than that, they have words for it, but otherwise their major numbering systems are always multiples of this, such as 20² or 20³, all with their own specific word. So how could this translate into tabletop? Think about squad sizes and command. If a commander thinks in this numbering system, they will want to round up or down generally speaking to the closest count. (D)

 

-That could be cool. It would force larger units though, looking at 20s. (S)

 

-And it wouldn't necessarily FORCE larger units, but I am thinking you may have a special rule for platoon-level unit cohesion rules. I am thinking you may get bonuses if you're able to maintain full-strength, or if you will, full-count numbers between your fielded army, incentivizing you to play tactically and not be reckless with all your offensive options. You could organize units into a "count" and declare them as beneficiaries of the desired synergy effect. This would incentivize combined arms doctrine. Which is paramount to maximize combat potential in a terrain that limits the amount of forces you can bring to bear and maneuver. (D)

 

-Maya have the Eagle as a big symbol.

BEHOLD, the Storm Eagle.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Storm_Eagle_Assault_Gunship

It can hold exactly 20 Marines. Coincidence?

I think not! (D)

 

-Haha. And something as flat as that could look amazing painted up with Mayan iconography.(S)

 

-Also, missiles. More Pie Plates! Man Dawn Lords be blasting your ass. (D)

 

-Hey, Tlatia , what did you envision about the blank potential of the legion? Would you like that the special rules of the legion make a majority of them blanks? Or that some units make are more powerful pariahs? Or both? When I talked to a friend about it, we talked about having the legion specific rules give them some sort of anti-Pysker rules. But I also thought it could be cool to have a unit of pariah strength guys as a special unit. (S)

 

-I think they would have other, more standard Marines but might call them by another name. I just recently pitched the idea of using the Mayan 20-count day calendar/horoscope to imbue greater meaning to different units and roles within the Legion. (D)

 

-Now, your question about Blanks, Salerno? Whatever happens, the vast, vast majority of the Legion should be normal. I wondered for a while if there even should be Blanks in the Legion, or if that was just Tlatia's special gift, like Vulkan's Perpetual nature, or Sanguinius' wings. But if there are, then I'd definitely want them to be At Least as rare as Librarians are in other Legions. (T)

 

-They (Blanks) should be deployed where they are useful. Tlatia's aura alone should be strong enough to deal with any psyker she comes across. (T)

 

-Alright, so they would be basically small, commando style units to fit the bat theme (D)

 

-All units equipped with the hover boot wargear already do air skating as a means of getting around. They function akin to grav-chutes so you can glide down, slowing your descent until you hit the ground clearance distance where they hover, or you turn them off. (D)

 

-If you really want to do the whole feather serpent thing, I have an idea here. Instead of creating a new unit, make a new rule. The pilots are so good that they're able to perform a difficult and dangerous maneuver with their transports. This could be called the feathered serpent. Basically they fly in close formation, forming a line, riding one another's jet stream for reduced drag and higher speeds than the craft normally allows. Then they all initiate a dive bomb line and pull up in sequence, unloading the troops as they go. In effect, this would greatly reduce scatter that normally occurs with air-dropped forces. And this way, the formation leader, or the head of the serpent might even be merely a dedicated gunship, that clears the drop site with saturation fire and close air support. With the body of the serpent being a line of transports. (D)

 

-*reads Imix stealth moves again* So these guys sneak up on you, then blow you to smithereens? (T)

 

-No, they can just have a special rule where they can enter a deep cover state in difficult terrain. They are still long range snipers that require a direct line to their target, but they don't need to worry about any obstructions along that line. (D)

 

-I have to write a post about the Imix. What should I mention? (T)

 

-Mention that they're :cussing awesome, Tlatia! That they have built in Grav boots so they don't sink. And they can submerge and move around on rivers and marshes (probably won't see much play) but one interesting thing about them is they can use quicksand for cover. They also have an array of grenade launchers for close quarters. They are long range anti-materiel snipers and they fulfill it by having a big :cussing gun. Usually a lascannon. (D)

 

-I also found yet another vehicle to add to the arsenal

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Land_Speeder_Storm

 

-Guys, I got another idea unique to the Legion! There was one area the Legion was somewhat lacking in, that being Siege capabilities. The solution:

Seismic rounds. This ordnance, fittable as warheads for missiles, mortars and even man-portable bombs not unlike Melta Bombs, is designed to burrow into the impacted target, be it the ground or the wall of fortifications, and, after a brief delay, begin emitting sustained, high intensity pulses that trigger increasingly powerful tremors of the earth.

While each of them lasts a relatively short time, the cumulative effect of sustained bombardment will eventually destroy any fortification or building. Even cities are not safe, and especially underground installations. I am thinking of calling them Cabrakan rounds, after the Mayan deity, the giant that ruled over mountains and caused earthquakes

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/mayan-mythology.php?deity=CABRAKAN

 

-I deliberately stay away from the dice rolling and altering stuff. Because I am clueless what is worth affecting and to what degree. (D)

 

-Well, we should generally work on legion rules as a thematic thing, as we don't really have those. Then we can toss the rules to the wolves, to let them balance it (S)

 

-Agreed. How much do you know of Mayan combat doctrine? (D)

 

-Not as much as I'd like. I know they used to bring ceremonial units, as well as more hardened combat veterans, and then they'd have their best fight the enemies best, and that could decide the entire fight, but that's about it.(S)

[Brother Dougal]

Little update: Ideas for Legion tactics: We're giving the whole Legion automatic Move Through Cover as a buff.

 

We're also working on a penalty. Nothing definite yet, but we're considering some form of Leadership penalty to reflect the Legion's wild attitude and less-inspiring Primarch.

 

We've also settled on some rules for the anti-gravity wargear the Dawn Lords can take. (A.k.a Hover-boots) (a.k.a. We need a cooler name for these things). Costing 25 points, this footgear can only be taken by Marines wearing Recon armor. It grants 12-inch movement speed, Relentless, and Deep Strike.d

 

Next up, hopefully something solid for the Imix.

[Servant of Dante]

Little update: Ideas for Legion tactics: We're giving the whole Legion automatic Move Through Cover as a buff.

We're also working on a penalty. Nothing definite yet, but we're considering some form of Leadership penalty to reflect the Legion's wild attitude and less-inspiring Primarch.

We've also settled on some rules for the anti-gravity wargear the Dawn Lords can take. (A.k.a Hover-boots) (a.k.a. We need a cooler name for these things). Costing 25 points, this footgear can only be taken by Marines wearing Recon armor. It grants 12-inch movement speed, Relentless, and Deep Strike.d

Next up, hopefully something solid for the Imix.

That . . . sounds quite powerful. They offer most of the benefits of a Jump Pack, but also provide a stable enough shooting platform to be considered relentless? I know you personally didn't write these, but that sounds like a bit much, though I don't play 30K Maybe just a 12" move and Deep Strike, though do they really have the umph and control a Jump Pack does to be able to slow free-fall decent? I imagine with propulsion at the feet like that you might just go spinning if you tried to use them in free fall . . .

anyway, just my opinion. Should probably get some people from the Age of Darkness section to help out, since they are more familiar with the Heresy meta. Not every piece of special equipment has to have multiple powerful buffs to give a unit, of course :P (but maybe that's the norm in 30K i don't really know)

[Spacefrisian]

Why not copy paste Lukas the Tricksters special rule for it instead of trying to reinvent a similar thing.

 

Rebellious: The unit may never use a leadership value higher than 8 for any test they make. 

[Teetengee]

Blanks should probably make use of the blank rules currently used for both sisters of silence and for the assassin, if you choose for them to be present.

Hover boots might be good as jet packs (rather than jump packs): They allow an assault move (even if not assaulting) of 2d6 inches and give deep strike and relentless. They do not give a 12" normal move though.

I'll have to read more of your fluff to offer more suggestions.

[Teetengee]

Ok, read your thing:


Legion rules: Move through Cover, Adamantium Will, -1 LD (both due to the effects of partial expression of the pariah gene and just a generally more loose command structure).

 

Special Units:

Librarians replaced with blanks. Give them the Psychic Abomination rule instead of psychic powers and a force weapon/other psychic equipment. In 30k I would probably cost them at about the same value as a Librarian, perhaps a little more. In 40k I would cost them at at least 10 points more, as psyker destroyer bombs that can be delivered from the sky don't otherwise exist.

 

Imex Devestators:
WS:4, BS:4, S:4, T:4, I:4, W:1, A:1, SV:2/5++, LD:9,
Heavy support/Elites(?), 45 points per model:
Deep Strike, Slow and Purposeful, (Cannot Sweeping Advance)
Wargear Hunter killer missile, Power Weapon, Combi Bolter

Panthera: Special Recon marines


Wargear:
Carapace Armour Option
Suspensor Armour (3+ Save, Jet Pack Infantry Type)
 

no normal terminator armour

[Servant of Dante]

I think the idea was for the Imex devestators to have a heavy weapon and a hunter killer missile. If they are running around as single wound models all alone, I would want them to have a 4++ at least, but that's just me.

[Teetengee]

I think the idea was for the Imex devestators to have a heavy weapon and a hunter killer missile. If they are running around as single wound models all alone, I would want them to have a 4++ at least, but that's just me.

sorry, forget to mention that they still have terminator upgrades. Let them upgrade their combi bolter to heavy weapon if desired, that was just the base unit.

[Servant of Dante]

 

I think the idea was for the Imex devestators to have a heavy weapon and a hunter killer missile. If they are running around as single wound models all alone, I would want them to have a 4++ at least, but that's just me.

sorry, forget to mention that they still have terminator upgrades. Let them upgrade their combi bolter to heavy weapon if desired, that was just the base unit.

 

Maybe the option for a heavy weapon and a storm shield :P A model without a proper invuln may as well not be wearing armour anymore.

[Brother Dougal]

Oh wow, how did I miss all this? There's been a lot going on in the chat room we've been using. I wish I could read these and know what It all means. Umm, what can I say?

 

The Imix has been debated back and forth, given a couple different ideas and even a slight remake. Here's some of the things we're working with: since Librarians have no presence in the Legion and there are no Chaplains in existence at this time, the idea was put forward to give Techmarines a stronger role in the Legion. Upon comparing to other Legions in the books though, we found that no other Legion has more than 3 special units to it, which we're already pushing with Blanks, Panthera, and Imix. So, next idea? Fold the two together, and make the Imix our version of Techmarines instead.

 

There's still debate going on, but the 4 of us came up with a prototype currently at about 85 points, I think: Techmarine, Terminator armor, BS5, Master-crafted, Missiles.

 

I really gotta get someone else in that room who knows this stuff. Crunch is not my forte. Ah well. The fight goes on.