Fortifications in Heresy

[Plaguecaster]

Well generally I was wondering but in games of Heresy are fortifications any good to use in Heresy games? Mainly since I have a few which I never use for 40k but my black shields could benefit quite a bit for for a bunker or something especially for a heavy squad or something. Just curious with all the stuff available to Heresy forces would fortifications be worth taking

Thanks

[IronDrake28]

A Heavy Support Squad in a Bastion with an Ammo Dump, for those sweet re-rolls, always ends up in my Iron Warriors list. Whether it's more effective than other choices I cannot say.

[Gorgoff]

Last week I played Iron Havocs with Missle Launchers. They stood on top of a Bastion and since my Warlord Kyr Vhalen (IW) grants one unit the abillity to re-roll ones while shooting my BS 5 dudes where pretty effective. Oh and they've got Tank Hunter which makes them really good against vehicles.

The Bastion got an Escape Hatchet and a Void Shield as well, which where most important for my victory.

A Tactical Support Squad with Volkite Culverines started inside of it and got out turn one 12" into no mans land taking a ruin. In the same turn the Bastion was re-manned by a 16 man Legion Tactical Squad accompanied by an Apothecary and the man himself: Kyr Vhalen.

They got out in turn three and assaulted a Thanatar in the enemy deployment zone.

We play a mission where we'd get points for scoring units in the opposing deployment zone, so I had to go there.

Kyr made the unit stubborn so they didn't run away out of CC until he reached the Thanatar instant killing it with his Paragon Blade. Next turn he killed two Castellax in the same way. One per assault phase.

So, yeah, I really like fortifications in Heresy. Bunker are very nice as well. 8 dudes can shoot out of it which makes it an awesome firebase for Heavy Support Squads and the like.

An Bastions are like I explained earlier a good slingshot for huge blobs of Marines.

[K3nn3rs]

I take a bunker with an anmo dump and quad gun for my IF HSS with lascannons to hide in.

 

The bunker helps keeps the lascannon alive and provides a useful feature for my scorpius to hide behind.

 

The quad gun is a cheap but effective (especially with tank hunters from the IF HSS) AA option, which my army lacks.

 

I also add a few barricades to provide cover for my breachers/ Venator.

[Withershadow]

That's a lot of lucky 6s for that Paragon blade!

[Plaguecaster]

Hmm I was thinking on a bunker for my missile launcher squad would a void shield be any good on one otherwise was even thinking of a skyshield for the 4+ which would help protect a heavy squad more since they don't have a apothecary, could also squeeze on a Castellax unit as well.My force is primary infantry with walkers so was more after something to help out my infantry than some random vehicle that doesn't fit the theme I also I have roughly 100pts free I could use

[Brofist]

Another overlooked upgrade is the com relay. Re-rolling reserves for less than the price of a command rhino? That's a great deal.

[Gorgoff]

I second that.

It really helps getting your reserves on the board.

[Jarkaira]

Prometheum Pipes are a great addition to fortifications as you can get flamers or heavy flamers easily by taking support or heavy support squad. Add some tank traps and you have a location which your enemy thinks twice or thrice before assaulting.

[The Ironic Warrior]

Any fortification when partnered with any kind of shooting unit, an Ammo Dump and a Master of Signals is quite frankly ludicrously good, I just tend to never field them because my RoW's don't allow fortifications (Curse you Long War) but they aren't defensive builds anyway :D 

[Dono1979]

Aegis Line and Ammo dump with Imperial Fist Heavy bolters (or even bolter squads) effectively turns them into Twin Linked weapons (BS5 with Bolters and Ammo Dump reroll 1's).

 

I have seen a few bunkers with missile squads.

 

Larger fortifications are rare, for two reasons I think; one they are pretty expensive to buy and take up a large amount of room to transport and put on the board, and two, a lot of the missions in 30K require you to move quite a lot, being heavily entrenched and relying on the enemy to come to you often does not work very well.

[Jarkaira]

IMO larger fortifications are fun when you are playing narrative game with a mission of your own.

 

I don't know if the bundle is still available but when I bought my Bunker, 2 Firestorm Redoubts, Wall of Martyrs pieces and defence Emplacements along with two Weapons Batteires it was under 200€ which isn't a lot when you consideryou are playing a game in which most units are FW resin.

[Brofist]

I'm going to run a bunker with 7 havocs, ordinator magos, and Kyr making it AV15. I will post results.

 

It feels like the building damage table is more punishing than the vehicle one. That's probably the thing that would discourage me the most.

[Withershadow]

Yes, that's one drawback of fortifications, most of the damage results force you to snap fire. Still that AV15 pillbox sounds awesome.

 

I am not a huge fan of the Aegis either, since the stuff threatening units out in the open tend to be barrage (medusas, mortars and whirlwinds) or ignore cover (grav bombard, Typhon).

[Gorgoff]

I'm going to run a bunker with 7 havocs, ordinator magos, and Kyr making it AV15. I will post results.It feels like the building damage table is more punishing than the vehicle one. That's probably the thing that would discourage me the most.

Take a Void Shield. That makes those buildings way more resilient and you can use the second option from Kyr and don't need AV15.

 

I guess all HSS should have a fortification like a Bunker to be placed in. That'll make you independend from terrain and you can by an Ammo Dump. Way tougher and way more hits.

Besides I guess fortifications should be taken more often from any army. There are many special rules (like Sunday or Wrecker) in the Heresy which are unused because noone takes a god damn Bunker for 50 points.

[Jarkaira]

I am wondering how well would Head of the Gorgon RoW benefit from bunker or even Mall of Fartyrs Imperial Defence Network with Firestorm Redoubts and Bunker(s).

[Brofist]

Thankfully I think that only one of the results forces you to snap fire, but a lot of the others reduce the armour value of fortifications which is brutal. There isn’t any trade off either- like if buildings were immune to melta or couldn’t explode.

My bunker is running about 140 points for AV15, a void shield, coms relay, and walls that make it immune to vehicles and give it a 4+ cover save. That’s a pretty good deal. At 55 points barebones I think a lot of armies could run a bunker to good effect. It costs a little more than a rhino and could make a squad of tacticals a tough objective camper. 20 model capacity is also pretty funny given the small footprint.

Normally I don’t like fortifications, but they are Iron Warrior as all heck

[Jarkaira]

How about taking Escape Hatch for a bunker, add it max 12" away towards enemy and then in your turn take your unit out of the escape hatch the maximum 6" and then assault (or fire melta)? Works or no?

[Gorgoff]

How about taking Escape Hatch for a bunker, add it max 12" away towards enemy and then in your turn take your unit out of the escape hatch the maximum 6" and then assault (or fire melta)? Works or no?

Gonna quote myself on that one.  

Last week I played Iron Havocs with Missle Launchers. They stood on top of a Bastion and since my Warlord Kyr Vhalen (IW) grants one unit the abillity to re-roll ones while shooting my BS 5 dudes where pretty effective. Oh and they've got Tank Hunter which makes them really good against vehicles.

The Bastion got an Escape Hatchet and a Void Shield as well, which where most important for my victory.

A Tactical Support Squad with Volkite Culverines started inside of it and got out turn one 12" into no mans land taking a ruin. In the same turn the Bastion was re-manned by a 16 man Legion Tactical Squad accompanied by an Apothecary and the man himself: Kyr Vhalen.

They got out in turn three and assaulted a Thanatar in the enemy deployment zone.

We play a mission where we'd get points for scoring units in the opposing deployment zone, so I had to go there.

Kyr made the unit stubborn so they didn't run away out of CC until he reached the Thanatar instant killing it with his Paragon Blade. Next turn he killed two Castellax in the same way. One per assault phase.

So, yeah, I really like fortifications in Heresy. Bunker are very nice as well. 8 dudes can shoot out of it which makes it an awesome firebase for Heavy Support Squads and the like.

An Bastions are like I explained earlier a good slingshot for huge blobs of Marines.

BUT you cannot assault after disembarking through an Escape Hatchet, because it's forbidden in the rules.

Nonetheless a great way to slingshot your marines.

[Jarkaira]

Oh right it was just few posts above :P

 

But isn't it always nice to be able to quote yourself :)

 

Any thoughts on Firestorm Redoubts? Are they good for AA purposes? Already mentioned tactics would atleast work with them too.

[Brofist]

Gorgoff makes an interesting point. What's better? AV14 with 3+ cover save or AV15 with 4+ cover save?

[Plaguecaster]

Edit never mind

[Brofist]

I guess it's a bit of an edge case. The imperial bunker is pretty small and you can take up to 36" of barricades or tank traps that give a 4+ cover save. I doubt you'll be able to pull the same with a bastion since it's big and won't be 25% obscured. Battlements give 4+ saves as well, but being part of the building it doesn't matter

[Gorgoff]

Gorgoff makes an interesting point. What's better? AV14 with 3+ cover save or AV15 with 4+ cover save?

It's a pitty but Kyr only grants the abillity to re-roll ones for cover saves. But still a neat option.

[Brofist]

I ran the math.

Assuming 10 lascannon shots with tank hunter:

AV14, 3+ cover save = 6.67 hits, 0.67 pens, 0.56 glance, 1.23hp removed

AV15, 4+ cover save = 6.67 hits, 0.0 pens, 1.0 glance, 1.0hp removed

Assuming 8 demolisher shells:

AV14, 3+ cover save = 5.33 hits, 0.98 pens, 0.35 glance, 1.3hp removed

AV15, 4+ cover save = 5.33 hits, 0.82 pens, 0.67 glance, 1.5hp removed

So the answer is, it depends If you want to protect yourself from higher strength shooting, then a better cover save is worth it. If you want to protect yourself from lower strength shooting, then a higher AV is the right choice.