Guilliman and Grand Master Voldus

[Gentlemanloser]

Mods, can we talk about the topic we can't discuss now with Voldus?

 

As jeff rightly mentions above he should for once and all end the debate on a positive note.

[skarn]

If there are any changes to the eternal warrior rule in 8th edition, voldus becomes a very good pick. Until then draigo has him covered.

[Bartali]

@Prot I quite like the GK part of Bolter and Chainsword, I feel I can have a more 'realist' opinion here than I can in other parts of the forum. I hope we'll still allowed to be negative (as well as positive) here ?

 

Re GK and 40K. It's obvious GW have been in a holding pattern for a long time now pre the release of 8th ed, and for GK in particular nothing much has changed for two and half years. Hopefully with the release of 8th and subsequent GK rules we can have something to be positive about

[Myunch]

Any thoughts on how to best utilize Voldus?

 

He's definitely a beat stick, and at core, a Librarian. I find that with Grandmasters I'm over-eager to see CC, but with Librarians I tend to be more passive, doing the psychic shooty thing. I'm curious to see how Voldus will play out, as I am gonna use him in my next game to get a feel for him.

[Gentlemanloser]

Seconding Bart.

 

It's a disservice to new players if we sugarcoat the state of the army.

 

Yeah buy loads of the PA GK kits!  You'll get a lot of use from Strike Squads, Purgation units and even the awesome Purifiers in your games!!

 

Especially now GW change the written rules at a whim and your Purifiers can't use allied Drop Pods (despite the clear rules on this in the BRB) and they can't use their signature power from the only GK transport with a fire point (the Rhino).

 

 

There isn't a positive spin you can put on the Bulwark of Purity.  Not a single thing.  It's a useless addition to the game and will never be used.  by anyone. 

 

Is that a bad thing to say?  Is that the wrong thing to inform players new to the GK army?

 

(As a positive thing, I *love* that GW are finally moving the timeline and plot on.  5 minutes to midnight was getting stale and boring.  Plus it gave GW headaches when introducing new event to the existing timeline.  Times were getting too cluttered.  Moving the plot on is *amazing*!)

[newdigitalGK]

Just had a game using Voldus, Here is my list more or less

 

NSF

Voldus

Draigo

Paladins x5 Hammer(1 or 2 can't remember), psycannon, swords, Apoth, banner

Terminators x5 (1 Hammer and incinerator)

1 NDK (Personal tele, Sword Heavy inc, heavy psycannon)

Skitarii

1 Vanguard x10 2 plasma culvarans

1 Vanguard x10 2 arc rifle

1 Ironstrider w/tl Lascannon

2 Dunecrawlers (Str 10 blast neuron laser I think and extra heavy stubber)

 

came out to 1850

 

buddy list from what I can remember

Abby

Chaos Lord

Terminators (5-6 I think) hades autocannon

2 forgefiends with warpsmith formation from taitors hate

2 rhinos with 2 CSM

1 5 man unit of warp talons (deepstrike jump guys)

 

Voldus with draigo is actually pretty ridicules, dude brought abby with chaos lord and terminators, the unit of paladins were down 2 paladins when they assaulted draigo and voldus were with the paladins DS and utterly destroyed him

 

Skitarii were heroes and voldus deepstriking behind the forgefiends and casting cleansing flame was awesome, as each are a seperate unit each got hit by str 5 hits killed the warpsmith and with the cleansing flame and psycannon killed one of the forgefiends and was able to weather a shot of plasma due to running/shooting with NSF and draigo tanking. Abby DS next to paladins and tried to shoot them up but failed, Assaulted into abby's group and did so many wounds even though they faught back hard due to eternal hatred rerolling all the things. In the end I pretty much ended up tabling him.

[the jeske]

However they know how to balance expressing their frustrations at a behind the curve codex and then the rest of the hobby. Which is painting, taking pride in your army and just having fun playing games with them.

yeah, but most IG player come from WWII modelers roots. It is easier for them to find good stuff in painting. If someone is in the game for the game. Telling him that he spend 600$ to have painting material is not going to make him very happy, unless he realy likes painting [which is possible I guess]. But rules are rules, so I guess no negativity for GK. Could be interesting for people who are in to the hobby thing more then they are in to gaming.

As for the whole nagtivity thing with new stuff. IMO it is a natural thing. If a faction stays bad[and by the way I think it is important to state how bad or good a faction for new players sake] for a long time, but gets little or no updates. Stuff gets more laid back. A tyranid or orc player may not love what he has, but he is used to it and that is life. What is on the other hand horrible is when your stuff does get "updated" and the update is realy bador invalidate in 1-2 months. [RIP DW and G Cult]. It is easier to get along with something you have been used to[humans can get used to realy realy bad stuff], then when you get something bad and everyone ranging from GW to other faction players are telling you to be less negative "because you just got so much stuff this edition/expansion/etc". It gets realy bad if someone plays for a long time and had the bad lucky of seeing his faction in a passable or good state. Then it is realy bad, because you are asking yourself over and over again, why GW isn't writing the new stuff the way they did their good stuff from the past. Add to this other factions getting good stuff [i swear to God GW must have a patern of good/bad/bad/good/bad/etc for their stuff] and one gets a voletile combination.

To check how this works in RL for GK people can take a trip down the memory lane and check how negative people were in the months after the new 4-units-in-a-codex GK books. People were still negative, still angry, but a lot more chill about stuff. Something like V-man hits a GK player with the power of a csm expansion, and I do not envy you guys for having to have to live with that

But who knows,maybe 8th will drasticly change the way armies are played. Maybe "normal" games will range in to 2500pts and then an extra beat stick on top of draigo/G-man could come in handy for those who do not want to use knights. Maybe the psychic powers will be changed or the way they are cast will be different. who knows.

Ah and one more thing. I think I did ask this before, but had no anwser. Is it realy true that a person who does not play the game can't post on the forum ?

[Race Bannon]

[Off-topic/ON]

 

@the jeske and posting - nothing is stopping anyone from joining the board and posting ^_^

 

Yet, I think most people would agree, if someone does not play the game at all, yet talks about it as if they do by offering advice on what is good and what is not or how this or that works, is being just a bit disingenuous to the discussion and certainly to anyone asking for advice or counsel.  Known as "armchair generals", on a hobby forum such as the B&C, such posting may be constructive on the surface, while also a thin veneer to the astute.

 

In my non-Mod, very humble opinion.

 

[Off-topic/OFF]

[the jeske]

Ah,  pain killers do seem to influence the long term memory. And I though it was just a story.

[thraxdown]

To check how this works in RL for GK people can take a trip down the memory lane and check how negative people were in the months after the new 4-units-in-a-codex GK books. People were still negative, still angry, but a lot more chill about stuff. Something like V-man hits a GK player with the power of a csm expansion, and I do not envy you guys for having to have to live with that

Also when we got our latest update it was at a time when the other books were getting toned down, so we were in line with the other recent updates. Then GW changed design philosophy with the next codex and the decurion was born. Leaving us behind. But yeah, we'll see what 8th holds for us. Hopefully it patches up a lot of issues with the game.

[Happy-inquisitor]

GW don't play their own game and continue to not care about what either the community think or what is obvious from the shift to 30k. 

 

For a real insight into just how head-in-the-sand they are, check out the new Custodian box set. You actually get less useful models than the Burning of Prospero (Rhino for Sisters, generic LR for the Custodians, and the BaC Contemptor nobody likes because mono-pose). And they think that will sell or get new people into Talons of the Emperor? 

 

I split my play between 2 clubs and one store. in 2/3 of those the Talons of the Emperor would equip you for a fun game, you may only have a 50/50 win ratio with them but that is far from a disaster. In the other one you might struggle as about half the people there are playing tournament style lists so if you happen to be playing one of those then that Land Raider is a liability.

 

That does not make it a terrible box set, just a situational one. For a situation which is pretty common - from my experience quite mainstream - outside of tournament play and the circle of players who only play tournament style games. That narrow style of play dominates a lot of online discussion but personally I have to go looking for it if I am actually practicing for a tournament, it is not dominating actual play around here.

[Happy-inquisitor]

 

Edit. Why shouldnt gk be as tac as any other army?

 

 

Specialist =/= generalist.

 

GK are the most specialist of the Astartes. TAC is generalist almost by definition.

 

You can build skew lists with GK that will beat many opponents but like any skew list (and by contrast with a TAC army) it will hit hard counters against which it has little to offer. In the current tournament meta some of those counters are just too common for you to have much chance of avoiding them.

[Rurik the blessed]

voldus is just amazing! i played with him this weekend and was so good. even with a minimum 3 man paladin unit.

 

i played 2 nsf. voldus and 3 librarians lvl 3. 2 land raiders. 3 units of paladin (each attached with a librarian)

 

2 ndks. and some other stuff. (xiphon interceptor included)

 

the fact that voldus hits with initiative 5 is amazing!. and lvl 3 gives him so much power. is like a libby and a grand master combined.

 

i use technomancy. getting some warpmetal armour. that was fantastic on landraisers and even on xiphon and ndks

[the jeske]

How many points is that?

 

 

I wonder what is going to happen to marine as a whole, if the rumors about 2.0 is true.

[Gentlemanloser]

Happy, forge that narative.

 

The old Dex gave multiple reasons the GK would be fielded versus any other army.

 

Specialist in a story based wargame?  That's an oxymoron.  The narrative, the story, is whatever you (and your opponent) make it.

 

What happens to your ideal when our 'specialist' targets are hard counters to us?  That makes less sense, than every army being 'generalists'.

 

From the Codex;

 

"Daemonhunters are not restricted to only fighting Chaos.  There are all manner of foes and situations throughout the galaxy that can merit the hammer of the Daemonhunters to be bought to bear.  The following pages give you some narrative hooks for your games of Warhammer 40,000, and allow you to play any opponent, regardless of what army they possess.  These plot hook are by no means exhaustive, and you can invent all manner of reasons for the Daemonhunters to be fighting."

 

8 Generic hooks.

5 Space Marine specific hooks

1 Chaos...

5 Guard hooks

8 Dark Eldar hooks

5 Necron hooks

10 Ork hooks

7 Tyranid hooks

5 Tau hooks

10 Eldar hooks

 

We are in no means supposed to, nor designed to, only fight a specific subset of enemy.  That would be terrible design for a stand alone army in a competitive wargame.

 

And at the start of the 'Adversaries' section;

 

"we've tried to create an army list that is both characterful and capable of fighting in a flexible fashion.  One of the most important things to bear in mind is that many Warhammer 40,000 players you'll end up fighting won't have Chaos armies and, even if they do, Daemons won't necessarily feature heavily in them.  However in the dark millennium of Warhammer 40,000, Chaos can manifest in many guises  and Daemonhunters may find themselves battling aliens or corrupted Imperial forces in order to quell a Daemonic incursion.  On occasion, they may even be deployed against an Inquisitor whose methods have become so questionable that the Ordo Malleus will no longer countenance them."

[Waking Dreamer]

 

voldus is just amazing! i played with him this weekend and was so good. even with a minimum 3 man paladin unit.

 

i played 2 nsf. voldus and 3 librarians lvl 3. 2 land raiders. 3 units of paladin (each attached with a librarian)

 

2 ndks. and some other stuff. (xiphon interceptor included)

 

the fact that voldus hits with initiative 5 is amazing!. and lvl 3 gives him so much power. is like a libby and a grand master combined.

 

i use technomancy. getting some warpmetal armour. that was fantastic on landraisers and even on xiphon and ndks

 

How many points is that? 

 

 

Hmm...it seems just over 2200 points without knowing any of the upgrades.

[Rurik the blessed]

My army was:

 

NSF 1

Voldus

Librarian lvl 2

 

 

Terminator Squad

 

Purifier Squad

 

Land Raider

 

Land Raider Redeemer

 

 

NSF 2

 

Librarian lvl 3

 

Librarian lvl 3

 

Strike Squad

 

Paladin Squad (apothecary, 2x paladin)

 

Paladin Squad (3x paladin)

 

Xiphon Interceptor

 

Nemesis Dreadknight (PT, HP, HI)

 

Nemesis Dreadknight (PT, HP, HI)

 

 

 

Total: 2500 pts

 

 

I had bare bone units, because they really did not need any equipment (as they have hammer hand, so they strength them self)

 

My opponent had 1250pts of Tau and 1250pts of Blood Angels. (2 vs 1)

 

And they became DEMONS! with the new rules... very fun to play BTW.

 

In the end... we reached turn 7... and only a ghostkeel remains in table (from my opponent),  I only lost a unit of paladins, terminator squad, strike squad, and a librarian.