8th Edition: Zeal Rising

[asbonet]

Well I want it !!!!

[BitsHammer]

I wonder how Command Points will affect Combat activations, Warlord Traits and Chapter Tactics and so on. I foresee them being a 'currency' with which you can pay for activating "skills". Let's say "CT: Black Templars": pay 3 CP to activate a unit that has already been activated in Close Combat.

 

RAWK.

Only 1 CP per phase can be used. Largest FOC only gives 9CP as well so I don't think at quite fits.

 

That's exactly the kind of thing I don't want to see...

 

I really don't like the idea of alternating activation nor the idea of these comand points. Everything about both so far sounds like something I don't want in the game.

I need to see more to form my opinion about CP but the assault phase thing I actually like. You charge, all your chargers swing first, then anyone else who is locked in combat gets to activate in turns. This means charging units get a free ounch fest before they get punched back, and you can do creative things with alternating activations to inflict the most harm with key units before the units they're in combat with hurt them.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Enlightenment please....

The hell does, Activating Units mean?

 

And switching Turns based on Activation...

 

not an AoS player and don't drink all the GW kool-aid...

[Lysere]

Enlightenment please....

The hell does, Activating Units mean?

 

And switching Turns based on Activation...

 

not an AoS player and don't drink all the GW kool-aid...

If you compare it to current rules each assault is currently "activated" all at once resolved in order of initiative. With 8th you'll "actiavtae" individual units that are in combat and resolve all their attacks at once.

[Brother Chaplain Ryld]

Enlightenment please....

The hell does, Activating Units mean?

 

And switching Turns based on Activation...

 

not an AoS player and don't drink all the GW kool-aid...

 

If we each have 3 units in CC (mine are A,B & C and yours are 1,2 & 3), in the assault phase, assuming no chargers this turn and it is my turn, I elect to activate my unit A to fight one of your units it is in CC with, say your unit 1. I then attack with unit A. You now get to activate a unit. You can pick units 1,2 or 3. So you might pick a unit that will be first to fight in that particular fight, not just your unit 1 that was hit by my unit A. Then I could pick my units B or C to fight your units 2 or 3. This goes on till all units have fought. Make sense??? Hopefully I have explained it correctly!!

Also, unit activation means that if I can choose any of my units to fight, I will look to choose one that might damage an enemy unit enough to make it less effective when it has it's turn to fight. Or I might select a unit that will most likely die after you have attacked so that I get a chance to swing at you first. 

[Marshal_Roujakis]

So I technically get to choose which combat to respond to or to attack first instead of just countering where my enemy attacked last? might be a troublesome affair keeping track of who fought already and who're done... not nightmarish mind you, just a bit troublesome :p

 

Unit/Squad is same right?

 

Does that also mean, that I can technically hit first against a squad that was already engaged in CC, even though it was your turn, just because you elected to choose a different squad to activate?

 

Does that also mean that despite Eldar having fluff of being faster in everything, that Guardsmen with bayonets can hit them first in melee?

 

Seems like an ok rule, not quite fluffy, but it gets rather tactical if you run an Assault Army... a dedicated mob assault army like Orks or Nids or Black Tide Lists, wouldn't care though which squad you activated, there's going to be multiples of that unit and they'll hit you regardless...

[Canadian_F_H]

Yep. Don't like any of that.

 

I hate this feeling I'm getting...

[Acebaur]

That's exactly the kind of thing I don't want to see...

 

I really don't like the idea of alternating activation nor the idea of these comand points. Everything about both so far sounds like something I don't want in the game.

 

Why? What about them don't you like? Have you ever played a game with alternating activations? It introduces a new level of tactics to the game that wasn't there previously while also keeping it simple. 

 

 

As for guardsmen hitting before eldar isn't necessarily unfluffy. Remember that initiative was removed in favor of a movement stat. So Eldar will likely be much faster than IG in that respect and it will still remain fluffy. 

[Lysere]

 

 

That's exactly the kind of thing I don't want to see...

 

I really don't like the idea of alternating activation nor the idea of these comand points. Everything about both so far sounds like something I don't want in the game.

Why? What about them don't you like? Have you ever played a game with alternating activations? It introduces a new level of tactics to the game that wasn't there previously while also keeping it simple.

 

 

As for guardsmen hitting before eldar isn't necessarily unfluffy. Remember that initiative was removed in favor of a movement stat. So Eldar will likely be much faster than IG in that respect and it will still remain fluffy.

It also gives us more reasons to use various assault units and not just one or two.

 

If I have a couple squads of terminators locked in combat with weaker units and a black tide in combat with something that hits hard I can rely on the terminators toughness to allow me to get as many attacks as possible against the big guy, after which my terminators can take care of the units that maybe did one wound to them.

 

Plus with the chargers going first and our love of land raiders we will rarely not be going first I'm sure.

[d3m01iti0n]

Also makes you wonder what the frag launchers on LRCs will do now. Care to speculate? Deny Command Points perhaps?

[Cap'm Heckus]

I'd like to think that they (frag launchers) will cause d6 auto-hitting S3 hits to enemies within 8" of the ramp on a turn when units disembark. You know, when they launch fraggy stuff. Boom.

[Lysere]

I'd like to think that they (frag launchers) will cause d6 auto-hitting S3 hits to enemies within 8" of the ramp on a turn when units disembark. You know, when they launch fraggy stuff. Boom.

 

As much as I disliked everyone getting a massive unit in retribution that ability was simply awesome to use.

 

Would be nice to see it become a weapon, maybe also a way to discourage charging land raider crusaders and redeemers. You can try and attack it if you want, if you're willing to brave the shrapnel.

[Brother Chaplain Ryld]

So I technically get to choose which combat to respond to or to attack first instead of just countering where my enemy attacked last? might be a troublesome affair keeping track of who fought already and who're done... not nightmarish mind you, just a bit troublesome

Unit/Squad is same right?

Does that also mean, that I can technically hit first against a squad that was already engaged in CC, even though it was your turn, just because you elected to choose a different squad to activate?

Does that also mean that despite Eldar having fluff of being faster in everything, that Guardsmen with bayonets can hit them first in melee?

Seems like an ok rule, not quite fluffy, but it gets rather tactical if you run an Assault Army... a dedicated mob assault army like Orks or Nids or Black Tide Lists, wouldn't care though which squad you activated, there's going to be multiples of that unit and they'll hit you regardless...

Yes, unit = squad. So unless your enemy has a special rule (A slaaneshi daemon prince gets to pile in first when an opponent selects one of their units within 3" of the DP for example) you can attack first. And it's not too much of a drama to keep track. I always have to remember which units I've fought with under the current rules (and I still miss the odd one )

[FortesMastery]

So a thing in AoS was it didn't matter how you got to 1 inch away, once the combat phase started any unit in 1 inch got to activate. So if I drop pod in and then move my six inches with Crusaders and end 1 inch away it doesn't matter if I couldn't charge after Deep Strike or running.

[Brother Chaplain Ryld]

Yeah. With no more scatter dice I am interested to see how deepstriking works and what you can and can't do after deepstriking.

[Firepower]

Much as I have reservations about all of this, the return of assaulting from vehicles should help this year's Knightfall :)

 

Assuming I ever get my ducks in a row on that matter.

 

Anyway, does Movement play any role once engaged in combat similar to Initiative, or is it simply for the sake of moving/charging?

[Sete]

Maybe only for retreat from combat purposes?

 

Also heavy weapons with -1 to hit if it moves. Finally I can use heavy bolter on crusader squads!

[Acebaur]

Much as I have reservations about all of this, the return of assaulting from vehicles should help this year's Knightfall :)

 

Assuming I ever get my ducks in a row on that matter.

 

Anyway, does Movement play any role once engaged in combat similar to Initiative, or is it simply for the sake of moving/charging?

No, chargers strike first and then players alternate activating units

[Lippy]

@FortesMastery - I don't think you'll be able to do that as you shouldn't get to within 1" from the enemy unless charging. Much like now, you Can't end your movement within 1".

 

If it's like the game they've lifted most of the rules from, then Deepstriking will be No Scatter - must be more than 9" from enemy units, unless you've got teleport homers or equivalent.

[Canadian_F_H]

 

 

That's exactly the kind of thing I don't want to see...

 

I really don't like the idea of alternating activation nor the idea of these comand points. Everything about both so far sounds like something I don't want in the game.

Why? What about them don't you like? Have you ever played a game with alternating activations? It introduces a new level of tactics to the game that wasn't there previously while also keeping it simple.

 

 

As for guardsmen hitting before eldar isn't necessarily unfluffy. Remember that initiative was removed in favor of a movement stat. So Eldar will likely be much faster than IG in that respect and it will still remain fluffy.

Hard to explain... it just doesn't make sense to me that units take turns physically attacking based on player choice like that.

 

I can't remember when I played an alt-act game, but I only played it once... I think it was a mech warrior game? Idk. Been a while.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Well moral sounds like poo for us. We'll have to see what atsknf thorws us, but d6+Casualties vs leadership (now7) and if your higher then leadership you take the difference in immediate casualties... sounds nasty for big Crusader squads

[d3m01iti0n]

Let's see if they answer my question

 

"If my Black Templars take a wound, will they take a morale test and run towards the enemy with Righteous Zeal as the Emperor intended?"

 

I'm sure if they do it will be snarky, or something along the lines of "Your Ultra Templars are going to have a great time with the new edition!"

[T-Rock]

Based on my experiences with Sigmar, I really like unit activation. If the confusion comes from a cinematic sense, does it make any more sense than units waiting for their mates to finish up their fight before they attack the enemy right in front of them? I feel like it adds an extra layer of strategy on to a decision that felt meaningless and arbitrary in 7th.

 

Not seeing how morale is bad for us? They referenced ATSKNF wil give us a reroll, plus, that meaty crusader squad will give us a bunch of attacks. I was seeing this as a net positive. Of course more will die, but that is across the board. I'm seeing this as an increase to the lethality of the assault phase, and we're set up to come out pretty good.

 

Condensing a lot of everything we've learned the last few days...

 

-LRCs are more survivable

-We can assault from transports

-CC weapons have bite in combat

-We can sticky charge.

 

Seems like positives to me.

[Ciler]

The rules for morale are out. And they are as simple as they are brutal...
 

 

The mechanics are simple – any units that suffered casualties in a turn must take a Morale test at the end of it. You just roll a D6, add the number of models from the unit that have been slain, and if the number is bigger than the unit’s Leadership, the unit loses the difference in additional models.

 

Let me know if I do the maths wrong. You have a space marine squad, 10 men, including a sergeant that (I assume) gives leadership 8. You lose 7 marines to a Helldrake, the sergeant is still in play.

 

You roll 1 > all three remaining marines survive

You roll 2 > one extra marine is removed

You roll 3 > two extra marines are removed

You roll 4+ > squad wiped.

 

Conversely, if you only lose only 1 or 2 marines, you can't "fail" the roll.

[AndrewChristlieb]

T-rock it might be helpful for us in assault results, but I'm thinking more along the lines of us getting shot off the board because neophyte bob just had to play meatshield...