Emperor's Spears covered by A D B

[Draakur]

 

So I'm basically bleeding out of my eyes from watching a late-night showing of the director's cut of Das Boot, but I'm tremendously excited to hear of new ADB coming down the pipe.

 

I guess I'm wondering, why the Emperor's Spears? Almost nothing about them seems to exist, from what I can tell. Why not create a whole new Chapter rather than drawing from one of the lesser-known existing Chapters? Not a criticism, just curious.

 

That's a good question.

 

The dream, I guess, is your own Chapter. But that's also the... easy route, I guess? I don't know how or why, but at some point the dream sort of becomes taking a Chapter that's just a scheme and a name from the history of the setting, and making that your own instead. I'm not sure why. It's sort of like... you're not here to invent your own stuff and make it prominent, you're here to illustrate the setting as best as you can, in your own voice. Nothing quite that set in stone, but that kind of angle. You're still in the sandbox.

 

"My" Chapter is already in the lore: I chucked in a few references to the Angels Numinous in the background, and that's that. I put my wife's Chapter in, too: the Shadow Wolves get a few mentions in the background with no real detail, but just so they 'exist', so to speak.

 

It's like Dan with Brothers of the Snake. He invented the Silver Guard, but he took the Iron Snakes from Ye Olde Lore, with nothing much mentioned about them, and made them his own.

 

EDIT: Phone typos.

I'm glad this particular thread of this conversation is being explored, thanks for participating in this A D-B.

 

Really interesting to hear the exact same sentiment I feel come from someone in such a position of influence (in terms of your ability to impact the setting we love). I'm a serial DIYer, have been for something like 14 years now in one capacity or another, and for a long time it's been the primary source of enjoyment I take from this hobby. As time has gone on, I find I'm more and more drawn to fleshing out the "NACS" as I sometimes call them ("Name And Colour Scheme" Chapters), rather than creating something completely from scratch, and it comes back to exactly the feeling you tried to describe but couldn't quite put your finger on... there's some sort of very specific, and somehow more fulfilling enjoyment, to be found in working within the canon on this level, while also exercising your creative muscles and making a Chapter "your own" within those self-imposed guidelines.

 

It can be argued that creating a brand new Chapter is doing the exact same thing, and simply taking this creative process one step further (still working in the pre-made setting, with its rules, it's history, etc), but my experience is now that this somehow detracts from the overall process of Chapter creation, which I was quite surprised by actually, when it first became true for me. It makes the process feel a little less relevant to the setting that we're all living in and engaged in, in our individual imaginations. On a conceptual level, the 40k universe is a big, mind-borne shared experience - if I can engage with people on a slice of it that is already verified as being part of the setting, I feel we're on the same page more and working together more closely, and thus through this connection, the experience is enriched.

 

Barring a quick name drop somewhere like you did with your Angels Numinous, were I in your position, I think I would (financials aside, as you mentioned) take much more delight in building up the Storm Giants, the Subjugators or the Destroyers than trying to sell an audience on something of my own, these days :) I find it somehow very cool that you feel the same!

 

+edit+

Typos for the typo God.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Draakur

[HeritorA]

 

 

So I'm basically bleeding out of my eyes from watching a late-night showing of the director's cut of Das Boot, but I'm tremendously excited to hear of new ADB coming down the pipe.

 

I guess I'm wondering, why the Emperor's Spears? Almost nothing about them seems to exist, from what I can tell. Why not create a whole new Chapter rather than drawing from one of the lesser-known existing Chapters? Not a criticism, just curious.

That's a good question.

 

The dream, I guess, is your own Chapter. But that's also the... easy route, I guess? I don't know how or why, but at some point the dream sort of becomes taking a Chapter that's just a scheme and a name from the history of the setting, and making that your own instead. I'm not sure why. It's sort of like... you're not here to invent your own stuff and make it prominent, you're here to illustrate the setting as best as you can, in your own voice. Nothing quite that set in stone, but that kind of angle. You're still in the sandbox.

 

"My" Chapter is already in the lore: I chucked in a few references to the Angels Numinous in the background, and that's that. I put my wife's Chapter in, too: the Shadow Wolves get a few mentions in the background with no real detail, but just so they 'exist', so to speak.

 

It's like Dan with Brothers of the Snake. He invented the Silver Guard, but he took the Iron Snakes from Ye Olde Lore, with nothing much mentioned about them, and made them his own.

 

EDIT: Phone typos.

I'm glad this particular thread of this conversation is being explored, thanks for participating in this A D-B.

 

Really interesting to hear the exact same sentiment I feel come from someone in such a position of influence (in terms of your ability to impact the setting we love). I'm a serial DIYer, have been for something like 14 years now in one capacity or another, and for a long time it's been the primary source of enjoyment I take from this hobby. As time has gone on, I find I'm more and more drawn to fleshing out the "NACS" as I sometimes call them ("Name And Colour Scheme" Chapters), rather than creating something completely from scratch, and it comes back to exactly the feeling you tried to describe but couldn't quite put your finger on... there's some sort of very specific, and somehow more fulfilling enjoyment, to be found in working within the canon on this level, while also exercising your creative muscles and making a Chapter "your own" within those self-imposed guidelines.

 

It can be argued that creating a brand new Chapter is doing the exact same thing, and simply taking this creative process one step further (still working in the pre-made setting, with its rules, it's history, etc), but my experience is now that this somehow detracts from the overall process of Chapter creation, which I was quite surprised by actually, when it first became true for me. It makes the process feel a little less relevant to the setting that we're all living in and engaged in, in our individual imaginations. On a conceptual level, the 40k universe is a big, mind-borne shared experience - if I can engage with people on a slice of it that is already verified as being part of the setting, I feel we're on the same page more and working together more closely, and thus through this connection, the experience is enriched.

 

Barring a quick name drop somewhere like you did with your Angels Numinous, were I in your position, I think I would (financials aside, as you mentioned) take much more delight in building up the Storm Giants, the Subjugators or the Destroyers than trying to sell an audience on something of my own, these days I find it somehow very cool that you feel the same!

 

+edit+

Typos for the typo God.

 

And now Farrer took the spear from Dan and doing snaky snakes in 'Urdesh'

 

But yeah  - we figured, thanks for the insight.

Still strange that after Celestial Lions success and all that Helsreach triumph they still insist on using 'major' Chapters. Cause italian 'twilight' vampires , wet leopard growl and 'we float for Macragge'

[Guest Drekkan]

 

 

That makes an enormous amount of sense. Thank you for taking the time to answer that. I'll get greedy and risk another question: do you worry that hobbyists who have taken that existing Chapter in their own direction won't take to your version? If they've built forces around their idea of what that Chapter represents, how will they square that with your take?

 

 

Not really, because that'll only be like... 3 people worldwide. It's one of the reasons for choosing such a no-name obscure Chapter. And I doubt anything I do will invalidate their army, and... well, if it invalidates their background, that's a famous risk when it comes to choosing existing Chapters, and I've done pretty well (I hope) at avoiding it for the last 12ish novels. 

 

In fairness, as much as I try to get in fan community nods when I can, and as much as I respect anyone's army background and try not to invalidate it, the lore has shifted so often on so many topics that everyone knows the feeling to some degree, and it's not always a bad thing.

 

 

Dear Lord A D-B,

 

You're doing more than fine at writing pleasant toy soldiers books, both respecting the established lore as well as advancing the plot.

 

For me you are the astronomican of black library publishing.

 

 

So please keep going on with these fantastics novels, and terrific charachters.

 

#fanboymodeoff

 

For Russ, for the Allfather !

 

Drekkan

[grailkeeper]

The Emperors spears symbol looks a lot like the Maserati Logo

 

I wonder if anyone has ever made an all -red chapter of marines with a rearing horse symbol?

http://www.carlogos.org/logo/Maserati-logo-black-1920x1080.png

Edited February 26, 2017 by grailkeeper

[Olis]

The Emperors spears symbol looks a lot like the Maserati Logo

 

I wonder if anyone has ever made an all -red chapter of marines with a rearing horse symbol?

 

*snip*

 

Maybe you could do something with that idea, brother... :wink:

[Demigod]

I would love to see a Mentors type fleet based chapter which would use new space marines as front line troops but veteran marines would serve like commanders of regiments or ships. They would be on a crusade since the second founding because they would not agree with how the Imperium was reorganized  so they still spread the Imperial truth and to go around the chapter restrictions they use massive numbers of ordinary human soldiers.

 

Also I have to say that the Night Lord omnibus are my favorite Warhammer 40k novels and I truly hope that GW will do something with Decimus in the new lore advancements. 

[Indefragable]

 

. I prefer to take core concepts and basic assumptions and do my best to show why they're cool. 

^emphasis added by me

 

I have to say, of all this thread, this got me the most excited. 

 

One of my favorite scenes in the entire HH series (so far, still have to catch up) was ADB's description of how Custodes fight vs how Astartes fight. That was showing us something as opposed to merely telling us something. "Fighting like individual lions vs fighting like a pack of wolves" is a wonderful description that makes you put down the book for a moment and picture that in your head: a glorious effect for a writer! It also adds so much character to both those groups. 

 

In contrast, there seems to be a lot of Worfs in the universe. Being told Captain XYZ is "da bestest" in the galaxy....and here are three stories showing how Sgt No-Name manhandles him in a challenge. 

 

That's why I'm anxious about more HH material on Sanguinius. We've seen so little of him that whatever eventually comes out is either has to be the greatest thing ever conceived or a massive letdown as a result. I wonder if they don't have a "champion" among the BL crew to pilot his narrative arc, or if it's being timed for FW's Angelus, or they just can't figure him out. I volunteer as tribute if the last part. 

[Commissar Ibram Gaunt]

Does anyone know if the new novels in the planning stages and coming out soon will reflect the advancement of the plot we are currently in the middle of. Will this new novel for instance ne in the "current" setting or the advanced setting we will have when this gets released. Do they give their writers the info to plan ahead?

[Mellow]

You can probably gestimate that this will be a "standard" 40k timeline book with nothing relating to other HH and TGS events.

 

As with all things ADB it will be a story about how the Spears are shown to do things rather than a ton of hearsay. (Not the British pop band) :)

[Kelborn]

As he did post a good soundtrack for "defending a chapters homeworld", I dare to assume that we will see something like this in his newest project. :)

[pompeyladbfp]

ADB I've always wanted to read a marine novel that is like Valerio Massimo Manfredi's Alexander series.. From aspirant to chapter master to his end..

[b1soul]

I'd love a novel following a primarch's life from landing on his homeworld to the first years of joining the GC Edited March 2, 2017 by b1soul

[m0nolith]

 

 

The most "greek" chapter I can think of would be the Iron Snakes. They have the most Greek influenced culture, etc. as they are basically hippolytes in space

Ahem...

There are also these bronze guys...

I hear they are kind of jerks tho...

[Sete]

Will they poke stuff with spears?

Or tridents?

And will they talk to fish?

Edited March 2, 2017 by Sete

[Kelborn]

And if so, they might get along very well with the Carcharodons, aye?

[A D-B]

ADB I've always wanted to read a marine novel that is like Valerio Massimo Manfredi's Alexander series.. From aspirant to chapter master to his end..

 

That'd be pretty swish. 

 

 

Will they poke stuff with spears?

Or tridents?

And will they talk to fish?

 

Probably. 

Maybe.

No.

 

In that order.

[Sete]

Ah what a shame, I was really keen on the fish talking.

[Loesh]

Spears, axes, scythes, besides swords the ultimate expression of humanity has been sticking pointy things on sticks and wacking other things with them.

[Draakur]

Give how famed the almighty newspaper is for swatting flies/whacking your dog on the nose for misbehaving/bashing robbers over the head by old grannies, The Emperor's Newspapers seems the only logical choice for the next big Chapter.

 

Chapter colours: black and white (and "read/red all over")

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

That makes an enormous amount of sense. Thank you for taking the time to answer that. I'll get greedy and risk another question: do you worry that hobbyists who have taken that existing Chapter in their own direction won't take to your version? If they've built forces around their idea of what that Chapter represents, how will they square that with your take?

 

 

Not really, because that'll only be like... 3 people worldwide. It's one of the reasons for choosing such a no-name obscure Chapter. And I doubt anything I do will invalidate their army, and... well, if it invalidates their background, that's a famous risk when it comes to choosing existing Chapters, and I've done pretty well (I hope) at avoiding it for the last 12ish novels. 

 

In fairness, as much as I try to get in fan community nods when I can, and as much as I respect anyone's army background and try not to invalidate it, the lore has shifted so often on so many topics that everyone knows the feeling to some degree, and it's not always a bad thing.

 

 

Dear Lord A D-B,

 

You're doing more than fine at writing pleasant toy soldiers books, both respecting the established lore as well as advancing the plot.

 

For me you are the astronomican of black library publishing.

 

 

So please keep going on with these fantastics novels, and terrific charachters.

 

#fanboymodeoff

 

For Russ, for the Allfather !

 

Drekkan

 

Too much praise. I do respect Bowden for his style and books. But sometimes it seems that current life seriously influence his writing style and story progression. That happened in Master of Mankind, that happened with the Blood Reaver which was less interesting than the 1 or 3 rd book plot and character wise; Ragnar Blackmane (which is actually the worst A D-B book) etc.

So - we will see how it goes with the ESpears. By now I would gladly take Black Crusade instead. Because whatever anyone will think - Bowden writes 'bad' guys much better than the loyalists.

 

As for the Chapter with the Greek mythology to them - we have that in abundance with the Iron Snakes, which were written by Abnett (also not his best book). And we have spears and shields and greek style in Salvation Reach and in epic Rob Sanders tale for the Iron Snakes in Sabbat Crusade (probably the best depiction of greek mythology based chapter to date).

 

Give how famed the almighty newspaper is for swatting flies/whacking your dog on the nose for misbehaving/bashing robbers over the head by old grannies, The Emperor's Newspapers seems the only logical choice for the next big Chapter.

 

Chapter colours: black and white (and "read/red all over")

 Black and white? No, we had a lot of black and blue, black and grey, black and gold, black and yellow to date. How about a chapter without Black at all?

[deathspectersgt7]

Why would it have to be Greek in nature? Many  others had Spears .  I used to walk the ditches around Munger  Michigan spearing Northern Pike . But really looking forward to this anyway .

[HeritorA]

Why would it have to be Greek in nature? Many  others had Spears .  I used to walk the ditches around Munger  Michigan spearing Northern Pike . But really looking forward to this anyway .

Well in his blog and facebook post about them A D-B if my memory does not undermines me told that he was inspired with the Greek mythology for them and there are too few of Greek 'cultures' in W40K.

But we need A D-B attention to clarify that

[A D-B]

 

Why would it have to be Greek in nature? Many  others had Spears .  I used to walk the ditches around Munger  Michigan spearing Northern Pike . But really looking forward to this anyway .

Well in his blog and facebook post about them A D-B if my memory does not undermines me told that he was inspired with the Greek mythology for them and there are too few of Greek 'cultures' in W40K.

But we need A D-B attention to clarify that

 

I've not told anyone about the Spears yet, but I've already clarified my thoughts on the Greek and Roman culture angle:

 

 

 

It's too early to say too much, but I'd argue we've seen very little good Greek/Roman stuff in any detail. Historical fiction is a passion of mine, and I can't think of many Space Marine cultures we see in any real detail. The Imperial Fists have certain Ancient Greece themes, but we see almost none of that culture come through in any detail. When do we really see the Space Rome of Ultramar through the same kind of lens that has left the West fascinated by the Roman Empire for the last 2,000 years? The Minotaurs have Greek aesthetic, but what does that actually mean beneath the armour? If anything?

I should add, I'm not criticising the quality of any Roman/Greek stuff that's come before, but there's been very little focus on it compared to, say, the Viking culture of Fenris or the Mongol themes of the White Scars in the HH. Most Ultramarine/Imperial Fist writing focuses wholly on stuff outside their homeworld cultures - the Chapter itself rather than its rituals and heritage.

 

Having upgrade bitz and historical-style decals doesn't mean something's been done too much, or well enough, before.

[HeritorA]

 

 

Why would it have to be Greek in nature? Many  others had Spears .  I used to walk the ditches around Munger  Michigan spearing Northern Pike . But really looking forward to this anyway .

Well in his blog and facebook post about them A D-B if my memory does not undermines me told that he was inspired with the Greek mythology for them and there are too few of Greek 'cultures' in W40K.

But we need A D-B attention to clarify that

 

I've not told anyone about the Spears yet, but I've already clarified my thoughts on the Greek and Roman culture angle:

 

 

 

It's too early to say too much, but I'd argue we've seen very little good Greek/Roman stuff in any detail. Historical fiction is a passion of mine, and I can't think of many Space Marine cultures we see in any real detail. The Imperial Fists have certain Ancient Greece themes, but we see almost none of that culture come through in any detail. When do we really see the Space Rome of Ultramar through the same kind of lens that has left the West fascinated by the Roman Empire for the last 2,000 years? The Minotaurs have Greek aesthetic, but what does that actually mean beneath the armour? If anything?

I should add, I'm not criticising the quality of any Roman/Greek stuff that's come before, but there's been very little focus on it compared to, say, the Viking culture of Fenris or the Mongol themes of the White Scars in the HH. Most Ultramarine/Imperial Fist writing focuses wholly on stuff outside their homeworld cultures - the Chapter itself rather than its rituals and heritage.

 

Having upgrade bitz and historical-style decals doesn't mean something's been done too much, or well enough, before.

 

As always - thank you for clarification. Spot on as usual

[deathspectersgt7]

Cool .