The Deathwatch (post) FAQ Concern Thread

[Prot]

After weeks of dealing with the outcome of the Gamesworkshop official FAQ for Deathwatch, I feel the answer to the community (mainly the Deathwatch player base) is to create this thread.

 

I have received several PM's over the past weeks from several frater with different concerns, complaints, questions, and suggestions on the matter. Many of you are upset, or angry, or confused. Some of you are just starting or considering starting Deathwatch and I certainly don't have answers (but like most of you I definitely would like some answers.)

 

So here's what I've come up with for this thread based on all your messages and concerns illustrated in the forum:

 

+++ The goal of this thread is to:+++

 

1. Clear up, or try to make sense of areas of the FAQ that you find confusing, or too open to interpretation.

 

2. Voice your concern where you feel Games Workshop could have/should have handled something differently.

 

3. Add a valid concern that involves an issue that you feel was not covered by the current FAQ.

 

 

+++ The FAQ in question is located here: (Please read it thoroughly before posting)+++

 

 +LINK TO FAQ+

 

 

 

+++ Links to strongly debated FAQ rulings with their own specific thread (continue those conversations there) +++

 

1. The Dedicated Transport Ruling: +LINK TO THREAD+

 

2. The Beacon Angelis Ruling: +LINK TO THREAD+

 

More to come if necessary.

 

 

+++ What to do next +++

 

This thread will remain pinned as a resource for those who are coming into the army or need clarity or want to voice a concern with the FAQ.

 

1. If you are posting to bring up a specific FAQ item, start your post with a quote directly from the FAQ in question or else I will have to delete the post for lack of clarity (we don't want to debate something based on heresay.)

 

2. If you think the FAQ missed something, try to word it like an FAQ entry. State why you think it needed to be included, and try to include your (logical) resolution.

 

3. If you want to contest or otherwise disagree with a ruling, please do so in a logical, and respectful manner. I'll be watching the thread and any personal attacks, etc, won't be tolerated. Just play by the BnC rules and we should be fine.

 

+++ Making this a meaningful community effort. +++

 

I'm as disappointed as anyone else here. We all have invested something in the Codex/army/hobby but let's try to remember this is a hobby, and a game.

 

Let's be respectful with our comments towards each other AND to Games Workshop. We'll probably get a lot further if our concerns/issues are raised in a mature, logical manner.

 

Once you feel strongly about an issue, or you feel we have explored it to an unsatisfactory resolution than I urge you to bring this to Games Workshop's attention by voicing your concern at their Facebook page.

 

 

 

This is the only way I know of that we can:

1. Get GW's attention on the issues.

 

2. Hope for change, give feedback, or even see some changes.

 

Once again this is their 40K facebook page. Feel free to direct other people (including GW) to this thread.

 

Games Workshop 40K Facebook Page  +LINK+

 

Thank you. Please be respectful if you comment on GW's Facebook page, and let's hope this makes a positive difference.

 

Email Amendment:

 

Please note that beyond the facebook page, GW does have an FAQ email address:

 

Here prot, from this page at the bottom http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html

 

Gamefaqs@gwplc.com

 

I didn't reference the sticky, but maybe I'll drop another to let people know (and others should too!)

 

 

- Prot.

[Bronze Beast in the Dark]

I have commented on the FB page but I have not gotten any feedback from them at this time. Tonight when I can gain access to a computer, I am going to email customer support with my specific questions, but I still expect no helpful info.

 

Thanks for this post, seeing the FAQ debates go nowhere was getting frustrating. The way you guys are handling this encourages me.

 

No matter what we think, a real answer exists and we are owed clarification from GW after such a sloppy FAQ. I am thinking that this is on the back burner for them until 8th is released and I believe that is happeneing sooner than people expect.

[Kargrym]

I also commented on the Facebook page. I won't post my rant to public all at once, but I to will email customer support with my suggestions and will post a suggestion a day for Deathwatch on Facebook.

[Boyadventurer]

 

Q: Can a Veteran be equipped with both a Deathwatch shotgun

and a boltgun? This seems possible since they can take items

from both the Ranged Weapons and Special Weapons list.

A: No.

So with the bolter/shotgun answer, is the general assumption in the community that this now rules out any special + bolter combinations? IE: swapping your bolter for a special, then your ccw for the free bolter?

[Bronze Beast in the Dark]

 

Q: Can a Veteran be equipped with both a Deathwatch shotgun

and a boltgun? This seems possible since they can take items

from both the Ranged Weapons and Special Weapons list.

A: No.

 

So with the bolter/shotgun answer, is the general assumption in the community that this now rules out any special + bolter combinations? IE: swapping your bolter for a special, then your ccw for the free bolter?

Their vauge answers that don't address the root problem indicate that you can, but I'm not modeling anything that way. I'm sure it will be FAQ'd again whenever they get around to it.

[Boyadventurer]

 

 

Q: Can a Veteran be equipped with both a Deathwatch shotgun

and a boltgun? This seems possible since they can take items

from both the Ranged Weapons and Special Weapons list.

A: No.

 

So with the bolter/shotgun answer, is the general assumption in the community that this now rules out any special + bolter combinations? IE: swapping your bolter for a special, then your ccw for the free bolter?

Their vauge answers that don't address the root problem indicate that you can, but I'm not modeling anything that way. I'm sure it will be FAQ'd again whenever they get around to it.

 

Yeah, the only other reason to have the "swap ccw for bolter" option is for HQs, but they could have just added that as on option on the HQs page itself. It's tough to figure out the intent behind it. Yeah marines don't usually run around with 2 rifles, but the whole deal with DW is that they're better armed, so are they *that* well armed?

 

I used combis to model my special/bolter dudes, but I'm thinking maybe I should play it safe and swap it out for the special weapon now just to be safe. Our local campaign's happenings pretty soon.

[SinnerBeta]

Retracting my current question since it was answered after all. Might use this space in the future for a different question instead of creating a new post.

 

Personally I'm hoping for a sniper HQ or at least unit (stalker or sniper, camo cloak, infiltrate) so I'm hoping for a supplement with one soon.

[Kargrym]

Something that I'm curious about but don't see brought up is the Banebolts' Stalker Bolter profile as only the HQ models can access the Relics but none of them have access to the Special Weapon category where the Stalker is located. Does this mean that:

 

1) this relic should be available to non-HQ models with access to Special Weapons (like for example that Salamanders' flamer from Angels of Death)

 

2) the Stalker Bolter is supposed to be included in the Ranged Weapons weapons category

 

3) the Captain or another HQ should have a separate entry for the Stalker Bolter in his upgrades list

 

4) it's a left over from an older draft of the codex where there was a Stalker-wielding HQ that was consequently cut and should now be removed

 

The Banebolts stalker profile is to leave open to possible future HQ's that would have a stalker.

[ashc]

 

Something that I'm curious about but don't see brought up is the Banebolts' Stalker Bolter profile as only the HQ models can access the Relics but none of them have access to the Special Weapon category where the Stalker is located. Does this mean that:

 

1) this relic should be available to non-HQ models with access to Special Weapons (like for example that Salamanders' flamer from Angels of Death)

 

2) the Stalker Bolter is supposed to be included in the Ranged Weapons weapons category

 

3) the Captain or another HQ should have a separate entry for the Stalker Bolter in his upgrades list

 

4) it's a left over from an older draft of the codex where there was a Stalker-wielding HQ that was consequently cut and should now be removed

 

The Banebolts stalker profile is to leave open to possible future HQ's that would have a stalker.

 

 

Yes, that one was stated fairly clearly in the FAQ (one of the few things  )

[Prot]

Note that the FAQ email address has been added to the bottom of the first post.

[Master Avoghai]

I've sent the question on the Wh40k Facebook page here's the reply :

 

 

 

As we have said before - we are not really a rules answering service; you see, us guys in the Community Team are not the rules writers, so we can't comment on the reason the rules are written the way they are or give official answers to questions. All we can do is pass your comments on to the rules team, who may consider them for future FAQ documents. In the mean time, we suggest chatting with your opponents before the game begins and getting answers straight before the first dice are rolled. Sorry we can't be of any more help than that.- Nick

 

 

I've replied to them that it's quite hard to contact the rules team and that is a problem that only appears with the FAQ and that it didn't exist before.

 

I might give a try to the FAQ team.

[Master Avoghai]

I've replied the FB that it's a little bit hard actually because FAQ staff doesn't answer and it takes ages to obtain an update. Moreover the crucial point is that tgis problem never existed before the FAQ. It's the FAQ THEY published that created the issue.

 

They answered that it's difficult for the team to reply ALL the rules question (I imagine they receive tons of RYFB questions :P )... But the following paragraph was much more interesting

 

 

 

BUT we hear you. We are aware that folks want some sort of FAQ service and I can tell you that we are working on an FAQ-forum style site, which is very exciting. No more news than that now but it is definitely in the works.

 

Seems they are making some progress in this area too :rolleyes: 

[Qui-Gon]

My response from their Warhammer 40,000 page:

 

Hey [name redacted]

That’s a great question!

Us guys and gals here in the Community Team can't give you official answers to rules questions; official rulings can only be made by the Games Designers. What we will do is feed your question back to the rules guys so it can be considered in the next FAQ update (at the moment these are every 3 months or so, but don't panic if it takes a little longer).

If you subscribe to Warhammer Live over on our Twitch channel (twitch.tv/warhammer) you'll have opportunities to pitch your questions to the rules guys as part of our Thursday programming, and you might even see the rule being discussed during the Wednesday and Friday games!

In the meantime, we'd suggest implementing The Most Important Rule: have fun. Try to come up with a solution between you and your opponent (or gaming group), and if you get stuck, roll-off to see whose solution gets used in the interim.

We hope that helps. Have fun! - Nick

[Kargrym]

This is what I sent GW over the weekend.

 

I am new to playing tabletop 40k. I like Deathwatch models, I like the fluff. They are the G.I. Joe of 40k. I heavily invested into Deathwatch. Since you came out with so many products that pointed to this army set (Battlefront set, Start Collecting, Kill Team Cassius, Kill Team, Corvus, Deathwatch Transport/Land Raider) all on the shelves, and that you continue to push these as a group to collect and play. I feel ripped off, and mis-represented by your company.

 

I understand that there is a large development cycle to produce models and rulebooks. I am not asking for a rewrite, however correcting the FAQ and Errata that would improve rather than hinder the faction would be appreciated. In the Deathwatch players community, the consensus since the FAQ was posted, is there is not a single thing that Deathwatch does that would attract any competitive play compared to what you have released all around it (Space wolves, Genestealer Cult, Magnus, Thousand Suns, Traitors Hate, Gathering Storm) or even bog standard C:SM. The FAQ was so bad that Miniwargaming.com stated they won't even play it in their latest Sit and Vault (Feb 24, 2017).

 

So here are a few, Errata or FAQ-able changes that would give us all hope to actually field this army without being wiped from the table in a single turn.

 

Veterans:

Change "Black Shield" to "Black Shield Veteran" so that they can take Heavy Thunder Hammer. It gives a purpose to this model and fixes some existing marketing.

 

Allow the original "May swap the Melee weapon for a Boltgun" and allow the Shotgun/boltgun combo. For models that already pay a point premium, and have few character options, let them maximize what they do have available.

 

Dedicated Transport:

In the codex under examples for a BSSF: "Beth takes a Watch Master as her Command Choice. She then needs a core choice, so she combines the Watch Captain and a unit of 10 Veterans together to form a Strategium Command Team, giving the Veterans the Corvus Blackstar as a dedicated transport vehicle" - This specifically calls out that a Formation is allowed to use the dedicated transport of a portion of that formation, with that in mind a Aquilla kill team with a terminator should be able to use a drop pod as long as that transport it occupies the has necessary amount of space or size requirements. Apply the old cat meme, if it fits, I sits.

 

Beacon Angelis:

In an effort to make the Deathwatch more competitive, allow beacon Angelis to work on the phase of its arrival.

 

Thief of Secrets:

In an effort to make Deathwatch more competitive, Thief of secrets should say "Whenever a model inflicts an unsaved wound with the Thief of Secrets, the weapon learns the weakness of that models UNIT TYPE (for example, if it wounds a Vanguard Veteran, it learns the weakness of all Jump Infantry) save for Independent Characters, which are of course, unique.

 

Artimis:

Make his combi-flamer unlimited use. It is not a relic otherwise. He has a tank modeled on his back so that he can fire it more than once. Call it a small Infernus Heavy Bolter.

 

Clavis/Osseus Key

Have the Clavis/Osseus Key also have the ability to add 1 WS BS to friendly vehicles within 6". This would make a Watchmaster have a role that the Captain cannot fill.

 

Give HQ models access to bikes and jetpaks.

 

Long shot: Add Apothecary as a choice to add FNP special rule to a kill team. Lore it as "Recovery of the gene seed for these seconded marines and returning them to their chapter of origin is of the greatest importance"

 

Forgeworld could help a ton with some one off characters and PDF rules for them, make Apothicary or Tech Marine as Characters like Cassius Or Jetek that could add into Deathwatch easily. This would put them more in line with their popular Deathwatch RPG.

 

Keep this in mind....

 

Even if you did all this, it would still get tabled, handily, by any Ynnari army, of any size. As soon as a 1 model unit of bikes died, it would start a chain reaction that would table the game turn 1 or 2. This is not a fun, and it will damn this Codex to oblivion without some serious thought on your part and a Errata that takes it into account.

[Bronze Beast in the Dark]

This isn't FAQ related but it feels appropriate in this thread at the time.

 

I sent an email to Forgeworld asking what we can use and this is the non-answer that I received:

 

Thank you for your email. No official announcement regarding this has been released by the Forge World studio, so in lieu of this we would suggest speaking to the people you game with and deciding amongst yourselves as to what you feel fits in for the Deathwatch. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience that this may have caused you.

I have a feeling that nothing is happening until 8th edition

[Mobius0288]

Ya I'd agree with the 8th edition bit. Poop.

[Prot]

This isn't FAQ related but it feels appropriate in this thread at the time.

 

I sent an email to Forgeworld asking what we can use and this is the non-answer that I received:

 

Thank you for your email. No official announcement regarding this has been released by the Forge World studio, so in lieu of this we would suggest speaking to the people you game with and deciding amongst yourselves as to what you feel fits in for the Deathwatch. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience that this may have caused you.

I have a feeling that nothing is happening until 8th edition

 

 

Thanks for contacting them.

 

I went to their facebook page and asked for a port over of official rulings on what we can or can't use. I didn't get a response... just a few likes. And one guy said 'use whatever you want'.

 

Some people don't get it. Of course you can use whatever you want..... in a non-tournament situation, but Forgeworld are really handicapping us by not simply publishing an FAQ that would take about an hour to hammer out with a few people.

 

When I say I want to use unit "x" with my Deathwatch, believe it or not, people will wave their phones in my face with a little screenshot of them saying "Nothing is official, ask your friends" which is exactly what you said... a non-answer but at the same time it actually prevents me from using any Forgeworld in tournament situations because that statement also admits they're too lazy to make a two page document.

 

It's just bizarre because it actually prevents players/games/tournament goers from using their/buying their stuff!

[Moostick]

My email never got any response, but i guess it would have been non-answers anyways. The most problematic issue is the bolter + special weapon (other than shotgun) combos.

 

Sure, we can discuss it with our opponents for now, but what happens when they officially quash it next FAQ? Once we model it, it isn't easy to change it to meet WYSIWYG. I guess they do this on purpose to make us buy more models, the sneaks.

[Bronze Beast in the Dark]

Not sure if this should be a separate post.

 

I was just told that the DW boxes were being discontinued and GW was going to just sell the upgrade sprue.

 

I asked about the Corvus and the manager told me that she didn't know. However, it had been placed in the scenery section and she moved it back to the Marines section. My GW is attached to the North American headquarters so it get stocked by other employees apparently.

 

I'm posting it in this thread because it doesn't look as if we should expect clarification anytime soon with all the new stuff coming out.

 

May be time to buy anything you want before it's gone.

[Zahaladune]

I was just told that the DW boxes were being discontinued and GW was going to just sell the upgrade sprue.

 

Uhhh, having just got into DW models for my army, can we get some confirmation on this gossip from multiple sources?

[Kargrym]

Well Except the Corvus there isn't much that upgrade sprues would not cover. Lets compare...

 

HQ:

Deathwatch Watch Master: This one is unique, and an upgrade sprue.

Deathwatch Captain: Same as the space marine Captain,comes with an upgrade sprue.

Deathwatch Terminator Captain: Sorta Unique? I dunno, but it comes with an upgrade sprue.

Deathwatch Chaplain: I donno, maybe unique, I like him better than Cassius. Comes with an upgrade sprue.

Deathwatch Librarian: Same model as the Blood Angel Librarian, with an upgrade sprue.

 

Troops:

This is the truly unique one from the set, this is the only one that has the Mark VIII Armor, the Xeno sword, the shotguns, the frag cannon, theSpecial Issue bolters, the Infernus bolters, the shotguns, the heavy thunder hammer, and all those shoulder pads.

Loosing this would be bad, and I don't see it going away, however only 1/2 my troops are from them. The rest are regular space marines and the upgrade sprues.

 

Elite:

Deathwatch Terminators: Literally the same as Space Marine Terminator Squad box but with 3 upgrade sprues!

Deathwatch Vanguard Veteran: Literally the same as the Space Marine Vanguard Vets but with an upgrade sprue.

 

Fast Attack:

Deathwatch Bikes: Same models however its 5 pack instead of a 3 pack, and an upgrade sprue.

 

Deathwatch Land Raider: same as the normal one, add 1 upgrade sprue.

Deathwatch Dreadnought: same kit as the regular one, added 1 upgrade sprue.

Deathwatch Transport: Same as the Razorback, added a upgrade sprue.

Deathwatch Corvus Blackstar: This is also a beautiful and unique model.

 

Other:

Kill team Cassius: all unique models that are horribly over costed but hey they are unique.

 

 

So from a pure efficiency standpoint, they could reduce the whole line to:

 

Watchmaster

Deathwatch Kill Team (Troops)

Corvus Blackstar

Kill Team Cassius

Artemis

Codex:Deathwatch

How to paint Deathwatch

and the upgrade sprue, and you would not loose anything that would not be from generic space marine sprues.

 

Thats a lot less redundant inventory for no downside. Plus they get to charge for those upgrade kits!

 

Maybe this means that Deathwatch will roll into the Space Marine Codex as a unique chapter choice next edition, which would be AWESOME because we would be auto-rolled into all the options in Codex Space Marines and maybe keep the special kill team abilities and black spear.

[Moostick]

It would make sense if they got rid of the boxes that were stock + upgrade sprue (i.e., terms, vanguard, vehicles, etc.). Maybe she meant only those?

 

Possibly online orders only, but it would be weird to discontinue standalone things like the Corvus and Veterans.

[Bronze Beast in the Dark]

I'm hoping she was mistaken about the extent of the discontinued kits. It makes sense for them to push an upgrade package but the Corvus and Veterans and Overkill models leaving don't make sense. I was really annoyed when she told me.

 

Edited to add that I'm hoping she was wrong all together

[ashc]

GW spent a lot of money on plastic sprue design and manufacture, the unique stuff won't go anywhere, just the boxes of normal marines + upgrade sprues.

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

Yeah, she just meant the special bonus sprue boxes. Watch Master, Vets, Kill Team Cassius and the Corvus are going to stay.