Damo's Ravenguard plus Theory Discussion

Damo1701 · February 19, 2017

Hail brother Ravens.

Firstly, I'll get some pictures of my completed and WIP Ravenguard in the morning, as the light is too bad for that.

I recently acquired 20 more MkIV marines, which I am going to use to begin the process of expanding my Ravenguard force.

Here is the list I generally play with. Comes in at a nice 1,849 points.

+++ Basic Ravenguard 1,850 (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2013) (1849pts) +++

++ SM RG Talon Strike Force (Space Marines: Codex v2008) (1849pts) ++

+ Core (839pts) +

····Formation: Pinion Battle Demi-Company (839pts)

······Assault Squad [Jump pack, Space Marine, Space Marine, Space Marine]

········Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma Pistol]

········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw]

······Chaplain

········Chaplain Armour [bolt Pistol, Chapter Relic (RG): Swiftstrike and Murder, Jump pack]

······Devestator Squad

········Space Marine (Heavy Weapon) [Heavy Bolter]

········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

······Scout Bike Squad [scout Biker, Scout Biker]

········Scout Biker Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Locator Beacon, Space Marine Shotgun]

······Scout Squad [Camo Cloaks]

········Land Speeder Storm [Assault Cannon]

········Scout [sniper Rifle]

········Scout Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Sniper Rifle]

······Tactical Squad

········Space Marine [boltgun]

········Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Meltagun]

········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw]

······Tactical Squad

········Space Marine [boltgun]

········Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Meltagun]

········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw]

······Tactical Squad

········Space Marine [boltgun]

········Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Meltagun]

········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw]

+ Command (185pts) +

····Command: Strike Force Command (185pts) [shadow Captain Shrike]

+ Auxiliary (825pts) +

····Formation: Raptor Wing (295pts)

······Land Speeders

········Land Speeder [Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter]

······Stormtalon Gunship [skyhammer Missile Launcher, Twin-Linked Assault Cannon]

····Formation: Ravenhawk Assault Group (530pts)

······Contemptor Dreadnought [Multi-Melta, Power Fist w/ Combi-Bolter]

······Sterguard Veteran Squad

········Veteran [Combi-Flamer]

········Veteran (Special/Heavy Weapon) [Heavy Flamer]

········Veteran (Special/Heavy Weapon) [Meltagun]

········Veteran Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer]

······Stormraven Gunship [Twin-Linked Lascannon, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta, Two Side Access Points]

+ No Force Org Slot +

····Chapter Tactics [Raven Guard]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

Now, I had the idea (and a really lucky eBay find) on where to go next. I am building 3 x 5-Man Tactical Squads, each will have a plasma gun and the sergeants will have a Combi-Plasma. Still works out at the same points, but gives me some flexibility. I am also going to bump the Sternguard up to 10 men, evening out the combi-weaons so I have 5 Melta and 5 flame weapons available for larger games. But the 2 combat squads will be interchangeable.

From my usual list, the tactical squads don't tend to do much, apart from die. Sometimes there is some luck, and they end up on an objective which means they will have actually done something.

I might look at getting them some drop pods, at least for the melta guys.

I've also been considering this army, since I began building the plasma guys:

+++ Alt RG 1,850 (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2013) (1850pts) +++

++ SM RG Talon Strike Force (Space Marines: Codex v2008) (1850pts) ++

+ Core (880pts) +

····Formation: Battle Demi-Company (880pts)

······Captain

········Captain

··········Terminator Armour [Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Chapter Relic (RG): Ex Tenebris, Lightning Claw]

······Contemptor Dreadnoughts

········Contemptor Dreadnought [Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Power Fist w/ Combi-Bolter]

······Devestator Squad

········Drop Pod [storm Bolter]

········Space Marine (Heavy Weapon) [Heavy Bolter]

········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

······Land Speeders

········Land Speeder [Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter]

······Tactical Squad

········Space Marine [boltgun]

········Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma gun]

········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma]

······Tactical Squad

········Space Marine [boltgun]

········Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma gun]

········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma]

······Tactical Squad

········Space Marine [boltgun]

········Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma gun]

········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma]

+ Auxiliary (970pts) +

····Formation: Ravenhawk Assault Group (535pts)

······Contemptor Dreadnought [Multi-Melta, Power Fist w/ Combi-Bolter]

······Sterguard Veteran Squad

········Veteran [Combi-Melta]

········Veteran (Special/Heavy Weapon) [Meltagun]

········Veteran Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]

······Stormraven Gunship [Extra armour, Twin-Linked Lascannon, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta, Two Side Access Points]

····Formation: Storm Wing (435pts)

······Stormraven Gunship [Extra armour, Twin-Linked Lascannon, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta, Two Side Access Points]

······Stormtalon Gunship [skyhammer Missile Launcher, Twin-Linked Assault Cannon]

+ No Force Org Slot +

····Chapter Tactics [Raven Guard]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

So, any particular thoughts? I have yet to purchase a drop pod, but I will be getting a bundle deal (Squad + DP) when I get the opportunity. The squad will go towards my fists as they contain the wrong armour marks for my RG.

EDIT - AS promised, here are the pictures, sorry for the low resolution, I'll try and get better ones with a different camera. (Odd that my iPhone has a better camera than an actual camera.)

Completed to date:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/DSCF0004.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/DSCF0003.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/DSCF0002.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/DSCF0001.jpg

These generally make up my 1,850 Talon Strike Force, except the 3rd company contemptor at the back, as we can't take dreadnoughts in a Pinion Battle Demi Company.

W.I.P. so far.

As you can see, I have the actual Shrike model to finish, alongside my Chaplain with Swiftstrike and Murder, 3 LS Storms, 1 needs to finish being built, and I have a second speeder to add to my Raptorwing, in an attempt to make their special rules more survivable.

I'm not sure where to fit the Vanguard Veterans yet, so any suggestions for incorporating them would be appreciated too. While games over 1,850 are rare, I'm hoping to start having a few soon.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/DSCF0007.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/DSCF0006.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/DSCF0005.jpg

Edited March 13, 2017 by Brother Tyler
tags edited

Damo1701 · February 19, 2017

Double-post time...

Better W.I.P. Pictures here:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/IMG_1227.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/IMG_1226.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/IMG_1225.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/IMG_1224.jpg

And the completed shots:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/IMG_1223.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/IMG_1222.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/IMG_1221.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/IMG_1220.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/IMG_1219.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Damosmy/IMG_1218.jpg

Damo1701 · February 21, 2017

Ok, Time for a triple post.

Had a game last night, my RG versus my mate's Guard. Maelstrom of War mission this time, rather than Eternal War. Both at 1,850.

My list:

+++ Ravens New 1,850 (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2013) (1829pts) +++

++ SM RG Talon Strike Force (Space Marines: Codex v2008) (1829pts) ++

+ Core (839pts) +

····Formation: Pinion Battle Demi-Company (839pts)
······Assault Squad [Jump pack, Space Marine, Space Marine, Space Marine]
········Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma Pistol]
········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw, Melta bombs]
······Chaplain
········Chaplain Armour [Chapter Relic (RG): Swiftstrike and Murder, Crozius Arcanum, Jump pack, Melta bombs]
······Devestator Squad
········Space Marine (Heavy Weapon) [Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine (Heavy Weapon) [Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine (Heavy Weapon) [Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine (Heavy Weapon) [Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
······Scout Bike Squad [scout Biker, Scout Biker]
········Scout Biker Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Space Marine Shotgun]
······Scout Squad [Camo Cloaks]
········Land Speeder Storm [Assault Cannon]
········Scout [sniper Rifle]
········Scout [sniper Rifle]
········Scout [sniper Rifle]
········Scout [sniper Rifle]
········Scout Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Sniper Rifle]
······Tactical Squad
········Space Marine [boltgun]
········Space Marine [boltgun]
········Space Marine [boltgun]
········Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma gun]
········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma]
······Tactical Squad
········Space Marine [boltgun]
········Space Marine [boltgun]
········Space Marine [boltgun]
········Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma gun]
········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma]
······Tactical Squad
········Space Marine [boltgun]
········Space Marine [boltgun]
········Space Marine [boltgun]
········Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma gun]
········Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma]

+ Command (160pts) +

····Command: Strike Force Command (160pts)
······Captain
········Captain
··········Power Armour [Artificer Armour, Chapter Relic (RG): Raven's Fury, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw, Melta bombs]

+ Auxiliary (830pts) +

····Formation: Raptor Wing (295pts)
······Land Speeders
········Land Speeder [Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter]
······Stormtalon Gunship [skyhammer Missile Launcher, Twin-Linked Assault Cannon]
······Stormtalon Gunship [skyhammer Missile Launcher, Twin-Linked Assault Cannon]

····Formation: Ravenhawk Assault Group (535pts)
······Contemptor Dreadnought [Multi-Melta, Power Fist w/ Combi-Bolter]
······Sterguard Veteran Squad
········Veteran [Combi-Melta]
········Veteran [Combi-Melta]
········Veteran [Combi-Melta]
········Veteran (Special/Heavy Weapon) [Meltagun]
········Veteran Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]
······Stormraven Gunship [Extra armour, Twin-Linked Lascannon, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta, Two Side Access Points]

+ No Force Org Slot +

····Chapter Tactics [Raven Guard]

Turn 1)

4+ and my Raptor Wing shows up. Zooming down the field to knock out one of his chimeras full of veterans. Everything else takes it slow and steady, hugging cover as much as possible, because he has Pask in a punisher, a second punisher, and an executioner, with uncanny scatter rolling ability.

Chimera gets knocked out completely, not exploding though. Doesn't take both talons to take it down. The other one gets lucky on the side of pask, and blows his turret off with a well placed skyhammer missile. Most of the guardsmen, who were pinned by the destruction of their vehicle get mown down by my devastators.

His turn sees a straight run with a hellhound to claim a central objective, some jostling for position to line up on my speeder and talons, and objective grabbing in his deployment zone with his pskyer squad.

Speeder crew manage to dodge everything a punisher throws at them with some fantastic jinking, even on 4's. A talon gets a hull point knocked off it, and his plasma tank gets hot twice, but lands every single blast template on a squad hiding in some rocks. While LoS was there, interveneing terrain gave them a total cover save, including shrouding of a 3+. The sergeant and plasma trooper just about survive. He completes 3 objectives in his turn, somehow drawing all 3 copies of "Capture Objective 6"... the one in his deployment zone.

Turn 2)

Does the RAG show up? LOLZ, of course not... So, we have the talons hovering to get great positional shots on another chimera and the hellhound, speeder supporting the wounded talon, infantry make some slight moves, still trying to hug some cover. These Russes are a pain to deal with.

Shooting shows me that Chimeras don't like talons firing at them. Another one down, the hellhound is glanced to 1 HP by the other talon, and between them the jinked speeder and the devastators finish up the previous turn's guardsman squad. First real attempt at plasma shooting here.... Nope! No gets hot, so we finish off the hellhound but don't explode it.

His turn sees a bit more tank jostling, with a pair of vanquishers running up my left flank, which I can't really do much about, aiming for an objective, and hugging cover themselves. His shooting sees both talons downed through glancing hits, and the speeder's luck ran out as it too died. Another round of shooting for the executioner, which didn't get hot at all... Grrrr.... takes down 2 guys from the squad who took out the hellhound. A few dregs from the other damaged squad died to random shots.

Turn 3)

Finally... The RAG arrives, on target, and disgorges the sternguard to shoot the psykers off the objective they are hiding on, completing one of my TOs, the Contemptor lines up a nice Melta-range shot into the backside of the executioner, while the Raven looks for tempting targets in an attempt to survive this coming shooting phase. Some more infantry shennanigans, and the sniper scouts, who have done diddly yet, embark on the storm, which hides out of sight, ready to grab an objective next turn.

My shooting sees the executioner explode, killing 6 guard veterans who bailed out of the previously wrecked chimera, (LOLZ), and the sternguard wipe out the psykers with poison rounds. Wasn't taking any chances there! More veterans died to heavy bolter fire, and the Raven did a huge amount of Pask killing with PotMS, as everything else failed to do diddly.

His turn saw him turn a lot of things around, move a few bits closer to objectives, and then unleashed pain on my RAG... Not a single unit survived... Even jinking failed again.

Turn 4) Scouts make a break for the objective I need to complete a TO, infantry including my so far unused assault squad and characters still trying to avoid death by tank, but get into a good position to be useful next turn. My scout bikers? Still holding an objective so I can try and claw a draw from this.

Very lackluster shooting phase... a few veterans die to heavy bolters, and the scouts actually top 2 guys with snapshots.

His turn sees a surviving hellhound come and hide in the wrecks of a chimera and my speeder, immobilising itself as it tries to push through... More movement from the vanquishers, to try and claim an objective and making it.

Shooting wise... just mopping up bits of units, or popping shots at my assault squad and characters, who survived unscathed.

Random Game Length... Continues...

Not much I can do, except for snipe at a few things with my HB devs. Not much happens.

Same for his turn.

RGL... Ends.

Total score 17-18 to him. So, he won.

Much closer than any of out previous games, still an awful lot of salt when I target the biggest threats to my army like the executioner and Pask. However, I'm not quite sure what else I can do to make the game enjoyable for both and still have a shot at winning. If it wasn't for the TO to kill a psyker squad/single psyker, the Sternguard wouldn't have gone down under 19 S5 AP4 shots, and a meltagun.

The biggest amount of salt here is possibly the ability to get all my reserves on turn 1. Now, consider that I had 830 points in reserve, in total, leaving just under 1K on the board at the start versus a full 1,850 list, I'm beginning to wonder whether the salt is justified? Any thought on that? I mean, I was 20 points under, and didn't upgrade any sergeants, mainly because I like my veteran sergeants to be noticeably different, with the white arms.

Are the RG lists I write just too strong to face guard? Even though they are sometimes under pointed, the fact the only anti-armour I have is the RAG, is taking the Raptorwing too much in a friendly game?

I would like honest opinions, please brothers. I'm starting to lose the will to play, and as I don't overly enjoy painting, where does that leave me?

I wrote a list, and built the RG to it. I looked at what seemed fun, but could also pull its weight. This is why I'm swapping otu the odd sterngurd for a more anti-armour approach, and why I'm building more tacticals and arming them with plasma.

So, yeah, could I get some input please? Thanks.

Shadow Captain Vyper · February 22, 2017

Interesting batrep. I do have a few questions though:

You mention salt multiple times, but I don't get the context. Are you salty because of the way your list plays? Is your opponent salty about your list? It's sort of unclear from your post, given the context.

When you ask if your RG list is too strong to face guard, yet you lost the game? I think that's a pretty good indicator that the list isn't too strong.

I don't think the the Raptorwing is an issue at all in a friendly game. Some opponents like to have a discourse about what sort of game they are playing (Are we bringing super-heavies? GMCs? Flyers?) I guess I can see there being an issue there if he is the type of opponent that likes to know if flyers are going to be a thing or not. 1850 with a gunship and two little flyers doesn't seem like big deal to me in 1850.

Your list seems very shooting oriented, and you were playing against Guard, so also very shooting oriented. If you want a stronger matchup against that sort of opponent, I would think Shadow Strike Kill Team would be your best bet.

I have some more opinions on how you could optimize your above list, but I can't tell if that's what you are looking for, or if you are looking for a changeup on your list to fit your social contract better. I'm happy to help either way.

Race Bannon · February 22, 2017

I've got to take more time to digest this but something jumped out at me: you have two RG Relics and that was FAQ'd illegal. Unless your crew is cool with that?

Claws and Effect · February 22, 2017

I've got to take more time to digest this but something jumped out at me: you have two RG Relics and that was FAQ'd illegal. Unless your crew is cool with that?

You can have as many as you want in an army.

The limit is one per model.

So you can't put Ravens Fury and Swiftstrike and Murder on the same guy, but if you put them on 2 different guys you're good.

Damo1701 · February 22, 2017

Interesting batrep. I do have a few questions though:

You mention salt multiple times, but I don't get the context. Are you salty because of the way your list plays? Is your opponent salty about your list? It's sort of unclear from your post, given the context.

When you ask if your RG list is too strong to face guard, yet you lost the game? I think that's a pretty good indicator that the list isn't too strong.

I don't think the the Raptorwing is an issue at all in a friendly game. Some opponents like to have a discourse about what sort of game they are playing (Are we bringing super-heavies? GMCs? Flyers?) I guess I can see there being an issue there if he is the type of opponent that likes to know if flyers are going to be a thing or not. 1850 with a gunship and two little flyers doesn't seem like big deal to me in 1850.

Your list seems very shooting oriented, and you were playing against Guard, so also very shooting oriented. If you want a stronger matchup against that sort of opponent, I would think Shadow Strike Kill Team would be your best bet.

I have some more opinions on how you could optimize your above list, but I can't tell if that's what you are looking for, or if you are looking for a changeup on your list to fit your social contract better. I'm happy to help either way.

Sorry. I'll clarify.

My opponent is rather salty at my Marine lists currently, both Ravenguard and Imperial Fists, but, most recently using my Ravens, and being the RG forum, I concentrated on them.

Is my list too strong, even though I lost? What I mean here is that every time something arrived from reserves or did its job and took something I found threatening out of action, I began to feel bad because the dice were coming up generally well for me. Was this because of how I had written the list or was it just luck?

At the moment, I'm trying to change my lists so that I can have an enjoyable game against my opponent. One that we both enjoy. The list I have used is one that I am either in the process of building in the case of the plasma tacticals and melta sternguard. I have access to a basic Landraider and a cataphractii squad with ranged plus Lightning claws. Aim for those is squishy targets.

There are two reasons for the list the way it is currently.

1) An attempt to try and keep the army as close to heresy era as possible, I just can't afford Stormbirds/Thunderhawks et al. All the models are either MkIV or MkVI with the odd MkIII thrown in for variation.

2) The list was pre-written originally around a specific look for my RG, where sergeants all had a claw if they were in danger of getting close to something. Now, as I slowly expand as models become available, I'm looking to balance things out a little.

Models Available:

Landraider

2 x LC/MM Stormravens

2x AC/SML Storm Talons

3x 5-man Tactical Squads LC/Melta

1x 5-man Assault Squad LC/PP

1x 5-man Devastator Squad 4 HB

2x Landspeeder HB/AC

3x Landspeeder Storm (1 partially built) All AC/ML

1x 10-man scout squad Snipers/Camo Cloaks

1x 3-man Scout Biker Squad

1x 5-man Tactical Squad PG/CPG

1x Chaplain (no weapon upgrades) + Jump Pack

1x Chaplain Swift Strike + Murder + Jump Pack

1x Generic Captain/Shrike stand in.

To build:

2x 5-man PC/CPG tacticals

1x 5-man Sternguard Squad 4 Combi-Melta 1 Combi-Flamer

To finish Painting:

1x Shrike model.

1x 5-man Vanguard Veteran squad

I could repurpose a razorback from my Imperial Fists, as it hasn't had anything done to it yet. Other than that, I'm waiting on funds to get the rest of the models I need to get more of the fancy RG formations.

With that said, I have written the following list, in an attempt to even things out a little, and not have the formation special rules issues that seem to be causing the most problems. (Some of the models will be proxies)

+++ Ravenguard 1,850 a (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2013) (1850pts) +++

++ Combined Arms Detachment (Space Marines: Codex v2008) (1850pts) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

····Chapter Tactics [Raven Guard]

+ HQ (145pts) +

····Chaplain (145pts)

······Chaplain Armour [Chapter Relic (RG): Swiftstrike and Murder, Crozius Arcanum, Jump pack, Melta bombs]

+ Elites (790pts) +

····Cataphractii Terminator Squad (435pts) [Land Raider]

······Cataphractii Terminator [Combi-Bolter, Lightning Claw]

······Cataphractii Terminator (Heavy Flamer) [Lightning Claw]

······Cataphractii Terminator Sergeant [Combi-Bolter, Lightning Claw]

····Sterguard Veteran Squad (355pts)

······Drop Pod [storm Bolter]

······Veteran [Combi-Flamer]

······Veteran [Combi-Melta]

······Veteran [Combi-Flamer]

······Veteran (Special/Heavy Weapon) [Heavy Flamer]

······Veteran (Special/Heavy Weapon) [Meltagun]

······Veteran Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer]

+ Troops (365pts) +

····Tactical Squad (95pts)

······Space Marine [boltgun]

······Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma gun]

······Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma]

····Tactical Squad (95pts)

······Space Marine [boltgun]

······Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma gun]

······Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma]

····Tactical Squad (175pts)

······Razorback [Twin-Linked Assault Cannon]

······Space Marine [boltgun]

······Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma gun]

······Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma, Melta bombs]

+ Fast Attack (195pts) +

····Assault Squad (130pts) [Jump pack, Space Marine, Space Marine, Space Marine]

······Space Marine (Special Weapon) [Plasma Pistol]

······Space Marine Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw, Melta bombs, Veteran Sergeant]

····Land Speeders (65pts)

······Land Speeder [Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter]

+ Heavy Support (355pts) +

····Contemptor Dreadnoughts (185pts)

······Contemptor Dreadnought [Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Power Fist w/ Combi-Bolter]

····Contemptor Dreadnoughts (170pts)

······Contemptor Dreadnought [Multi-Melta, Power Fist w/ Combi-Bolter]

Thanks for the input so far.

Claws and Effect · February 22, 2017

Is your opponent unwilling to alter his list to be more competitive with yours?

You shouldn't have to water down what you want to run so your opponent doesn't feel bad about losing. It might sound harsh, but if he refuses to change his list and keeps losing, that's on him, not you.

Damo1701 · February 22, 2017

Is your opponent unwilling to alter his list to be more competitive with yours?

You shouldn't have to water down what you want to run so your opponent doesn't feel bad about losing. It might sound harsh, but if he refuses to change his list and keeps losing, that's on him, not you.

Normally, I'd agree with you, and I do see where you are coming from.

However, as he doesn't have the Warzone Damocles books, and his army is suffering from being restricted to the 6th edition codex, I am trying to meet him halfway, but still retain the fluff-based feel of my RG, as well as a somewhat competitive edge.

He does wonder why I take a single contemptor instead of 2 boxnoughts, and the 2 reasons are the fact it fits with the look of my army, and I love the model. It's as survivable as an ironclad in cover, but the look of even the static Calth contemptor is much better than the basic marine boxnought.

If I go back to playing at GW, I have no qualms about fielding both a Stormwing and an RAG, all tooled up for bear, with multiple lists showing what I have for certain points levels or feeling before hand.

However, when gaming at home, I do prefer the fluff-based, fun filled games over the WAAC seen in store (I mean, CAWL at 1,500...)

Claws and Effect · February 22, 2017

Okay. Was just wondering if there was a reason he couldn't change his list or was just being stubborn about it.

Damo1701 · February 22, 2017

Okay. Was just wondering if there was a reason he couldn't change his list or was just being stubborn about it.

That's cool. He received a pretty decent army from me when he needed to change from Marines, as they weren't a challenge for him. He's since converted up Pask, the executioner, a basilisk, and all sorts lol.

As getting hold of new models is a bit tricky for him currently, I've suggested he looks at my Imperial Fists and Grey Knights as allies, in an attempt to even things out. He used to play Crimson Fists, so he knows how to use them.

Doesn't help he's been depressed since just before Christmas, and things haven't eased up for him. Which is partly why I'm making the effort to tone things down a bit.

Race Bannon · February 22, 2017

That's an honorable way to play in my book.

duz_ · February 22, 2017

Understanding the context now here's my thoughts.

The guard codex is definitely mid to lower tier these days.

By the sounds of his list although there's some room for improvement he's somewhat hamstrung and getting the most out of what he has.

The formations guard received were somewhat pitiful and can't compare to anything in the AoD supplement.

Id suggest from your part maybe switch to a CAD to level the playing field somewhat.

As for Raptor wing these days Im reluctant to bring it out unless my opponent has something to deal with them as it is particularly powerful against unprepared players.

Ps. Forgot to mention I consider myself primarily an IG player. Although tbh they have sat on the shelf a lot of late as I learn how to play my RG.

Edited February 23, 2017 by duz_

Damo1701 · February 23, 2017

Thanks for the feedback so far brothers.

I'll go with the CAD for now, even though it will have some proxied Sternguard in (borrowed from my IFs). Will have to borrow the pod anyway. I don't actually have any currently.

On a side note, I received an Imperial Space Marine for my RG today, and have almost finished him already, the decision to get one was made last week, as I faced Cawl, and couldn't do a damn thing against him. How to fight him? Hit him with an instant death weapon... Take your re-rollable feel no pain against that you swine!

I've taken to writing a list, and sending him the text via Facebook, so he can have a look at what I'll be fielding, well before he gets to mine. Sure, it gives him the chance to tailor his list, however, as long as we both have fun, I don't see the harm for now. Once things pick up for him a bit, I'll start going back to using the formations I enjoy, and all the models I love. For now, though, I guess I just need to try and keep things on an even keel.

Race Bannon · February 23, 2017

It's a strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

;)

Damo1701 · February 23, 2017

It's a strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

LOL. We tried that, but unfortunately, I have a distinct advantage, in that, yes, I admit it, I was on my high school chess team.

My wife, who incidentally is awaiting approval to join, is going to give him a game tomorrow. She decided that it would be good for him to have a game against her, as she doesn't know half the stuff I do, and he should have an easy win.

I'll get my CAD out and play on Sunday, probably.

SanguinaryGuardsman · February 24, 2017

Those storm talons look really fierce. Dead black with muted grey highlights makes them look truly lethal. First rate stuff you got there.

Damo1701 · February 24, 2017

Thanks SanguinaryGuardsman.

I'm hoping to finish more of my Armoury Vow today, if not all of it, and finally, have all my RG vehicles finished. I did spend quite a while procrastinating about painting them. Luckily, I stumbled across the Armoury Challenge and decided to use it as inspiration to get them finished.

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