Could Sanguinius come back?

[Arkangilos]

Lol, GW literally posted two days ago (or was it yesterday): "Top Five Painful Deaths" and number one was, "Sanguinius Strangled by Horus"

 

Lol, "Besides, who says that Horus killed Sanguinius anyway?"

[Orpheus Black Blood]

Strangled i really a poor death for Sanguinius...

[tychobi]

He could come back no problem.  Vampire angels don't have to play by the rules do they?  I would love to hear about Sanguinius coming back to call Gulliman out on his heretical Primaris scheme to overthrow our glorious Emperor.  Bout time we had a solid civil war.  

[The Red Thirst]

Gene FLAWS, like the Wulfen mutation or black rage are NOT intended, and have been purged from the gene-line. 

But we have to remember that unlike the curse of the Wulfen, the Flaw is not entirely genetic. The "Mystical Streak" will always be present in Blood Angels lore, theres no getting away from it, this means that the Flaw CANNOT be cured. It is a psychic mutation as much as it is a genetic one. We are linked by the Blood and the curse was present even when Sanguinius was alive, his death just made the symptoms worse. 

 

EDIT: As for the return of Sanguinius, I disagree with it, I think GW should severly limit the number of returning Primarchs to only a handful. If the Angel is ressurected it will cheapen his sacrifice for the Imperium

[Arkangilos]

He could come back no problem. Vampire angels don't have to play by the rules do they? I would love to hear about Sanguinius coming back to call Gulliman out on his heretical Primaris scheme to overthrow our glorious Emperor. Bout time we had a solid civil war.

Except that Sanguinius WOULD NOT do that, because he isn't a heretic or a traitor, and Sanguinius would know that. I mean, you do know that Guilliman saw the Emperor, right? And that it actually describes the conversation they had? And that Guilliman got permission?

 

Not to mention to Sanguinius knew what the Emperor's vision is, and would see that Guilliman wants to restore that.

 

I mean let's not forget that they worked TOGETHER during Imperium Secundus.

 

Don't drag Sanguinius into your own Ultra-Hate.

 

Also, everyone knows how much of a fan I am of the Vampire Angels thing, but come on, we know that their vampiric nature is only in the thirst and how they deal with it. They do not have the power of resurrection like old lore vampires do. Sanguinius does not either.

[tychobi]

 

He could come back no problem. Vampire angels don't have to play by the rules do they? I would love to hear about Sanguinius coming back to call Gulliman out on his heretical Primaris scheme to overthrow our glorious Emperor. Bout time we had a solid civil war.

Except that Sanguinius WOULD NOT do that, because he isn't a heretic or a traitor, and Sanguinius would know that. I mean, you do know that Guilliman saw the Emperor, right? And that it actually describes the conversation they had? And that Guilliman got permission?

 

Not to mention to Sanguinius knew what the Emperor's vision is, and would see that Guilliman wants to restore that.

 

I mean let's not forget that they worked TOGETHER during Imperium Secundus.

 

Don't drag Sanguinius into your own Ultra-Hate.

 

Also, everyone knows how much of a fan I am of the Vampire Angels thing, but come on, we know that their vampiric nature is only in the thirst and how they deal with it. They do not have the power of resurrection like old lore vampires do. Sanguinius does not either.

 

Your vision has been clouded by desperation same as Gulliman.  Working side by side with the emperor did not shield Horus from his heresy and your assertions will not protect Gulliman from the righteous wrath of me and my battle brothers. 

 

Your understanding of the powers of resurrection held in the Blood Angels seed is flawed as well.  Mephiston is the lord of death.  He should not be alive. . . yet he is not dead. . . Divine mystery abounds in Blood Angel history and flows through their very veins.  

 

I am not aware of your fandom, your history, your friends or your affiliations.  I do not expect to ever be aware of these things.  Your defense of the plight of the confused brothers from Mcragge is admirable if misguided and our opinions seem destined to oppose.

 

All hail our sanguine lord and savior and pray for his triumphant return.  Sanguinius!!!!

[The Red Thirst]

 

 

Your understanding of the powers of resurrection held in the Blood Angels seed is flawed as well.  Mephiston is the lord of death.  He should not be alive. . . yet he is not dead. . . 

...thats because he didnt die... all he did was survive the onset of the Black Rage and turned it to his advantage. Your assumptions about Mephistons supposed ressurection are greatly exaggerated.

[Hillslam]

Sanguinious could come back.    Me I'm ambivalent as to if he does or doesn't - I think both have compelling fluff, lore, and gameplay ramifications, so I'm good with however it lands.

 

But I thought up what may be a cool way to bring him back :

(apologies if this has already been posted, I am unable to read a 10page thread)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You know how all the shamen committed mass suicide in order to spawn the Emperor?  And how thousands of psykers are sacrificed each day in order to preserve his essense in the material plane?

 

Well, what if those brothers who have been falling to the black rage for the past ten thousand year are similarly fueling a rebuild of big Sanny?  Like the whole thing is a mechanism for His children to re-incarnate their father, unbeknownst by the afflicted or even understood by Sanguinious himself?  What if each brother who falls to the black rage and dies contributes a modicum of their psychic essence to the building entity that is Sanguinious Reborn?

 

Then one day - BOOM - up pops the Winged One!  Blammo Whammo Shazaam  "I am back, my children!"

[RapatoR]

Horus' soul was obliterated so I don't see how he'd return. Maybe a soulless clone?

 

I see, however the lore also claims that after death the soul is torn/clawed at/devoured/tortured by daemons, so shouldn't be the Sanguinius reborn have a soul that is in very problematic state?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

He could indeed and GW loves their retcons dearly so using existing fluff to justify why he won't means nothing. Remember that Russ was an IG commander long ago.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

Horus' soul was obliterated so I don't see how he'd return. Maybe a soulless clone?

 

I see, however the lore also claims that after death the soul is torn/clawed at/devoured/tortured by daemons, so shouldn't be the Sanguinius reborn have a soul that is in very problematic state?

Pretty much. Hence why I prefer having a "daemonised" Sanguinius, where it's not exactly him, but rather the Warp reflection of peoples memories of him, his myths and legends, coalesced into the concept of what it is to be Sanguinius. It's not really him, but it has his face, and claims to have his memories, but they're coloured by the worship and mythologies that have built up around him. Sanguinius reborn as what he's believed to be, not what he was.

No longer merely the IXth Primarch, he is reborn as the divine Archangel of the Emperor, in all his furious majesty.

[Panzer]

There is the 'plot twist' 'plot armour' possiblity of a return with GW any time they like. 

 

Besides who says that Horus killed Sanguinius anyway? There is the urban myth version that Sanguinius was 'put down' by the Emperor as Sanguinius turned to his true calling of chaos in the final showdown which allowed Horus the opening he needed to put the hurt on Big E because we all know even a super boosted Horus was no match for the Big E. Which makes Sanguinius a demon primarch and demons can heal or reform themselves in mysterious ways so can always come back. 

 

Far fetched for sure. Follows fluff as we know it? Nope, no way. But can anyone here say where primaris marines appear in the background fluff until 8th edition arrived? Despite an Imperium so backward looking that they have been using STC designs for 10,000 years and to change them is heretical? Hey guys look at this cool new Grav tank I've just built thousands of and my new super friends dreadnought. 

 

I don't think GW will bring back Sanguinius but could they? If they wanted to yes 100% yes they would find a way.

As much as I'd love to see an alternative timeline where it happens exactly like that (because with the given informations it's totally possible even), I really don't want BA turning chaos. We are already often seen as EC/WE mix with added Jump Pack love and one of the most interesting things about BA is how they keep themselves sain (and even one of the most humble Chapters seeing how they treat normal humans I'd say) despite being affected by the Red Thirst all the time.

Lol, GW literally posted two days ago (or was it yesterday): "Top Five Painful Deaths" and number one was, "Sanguinius Strangled by Horus"

 

Lol, "Besides, who says that Horus killed Sanguinius anyway?"

 

Guys, Horus killed Sanguinius. The old obsolete fight might change, yes. But that's the details of the fight, not who killed whom.

Just more imperial propaganda. :P

[brother_b]

Lol, GW literally posted two days ago (or was it yesterday): "Top Five Painful Deaths" and number one was, "Sanguinius Strangled by Horus"

 

Lol, "Besides, who says that Horus killed Sanguinius anyway?"

 

Guys, Horus killed Sanguinius. The old obsolete fight might change, yes. But that's the details of the fight, not who killed whom.

 

And Tycho was one of the others mentioned in the list!

[Sun Reaver]

Pleasantly surprised at the amount of traction this thread is getting! 

 

If Sanguinius' body couldn't come back, I would like to see him psychically come back through either the Sanguinor (more obvious choice) or Mephiston. Imagine Mephiston going Super Saiyan. 

[tychobi]

 

 

 

Your understanding of the powers of resurrection held in the Blood Angels seed is flawed as well.  Mephiston is the lord of death.  He should not be alive. . . yet he is not dead. . . 

...thats because he didnt die... all he did was survive the onset of the Black Rage and turned it to his advantage. Your assumptions about Mephistons supposed ressurection are greatly exaggerated.

 

You cannot survive the black rage.  They have to keep Lemartes in stasis to keep him from tipping over the edge.  Astorath literally goes around killing his brothers to avoid the pain of their continued existence and the possible violence they might wreak. There is no coming back.  You can have your opinion of the miracle of Mephiston's continued existence as I am sure you hold many opinions that do not survive logical scrutiny.  I assume nothing.  I am of the opinion that the Lord of Death transcended and became more through the trial that most cannot come back from. It is clear and useful evidence that you are foolish to discount.

[sockwithaticket]

 

 

 

 

Your understanding of the powers of resurrection held in the Blood Angels seed is flawed as well.  Mephiston is the lord of death.  He should not be alive. . . yet he is not dead. . . 

...thats because he didnt die... all he did was survive the onset of the Black Rage and turned it to his advantage. Your assumptions about Mephistons supposed ressurection are greatly exaggerated.

 

You cannot survive the black rage.  They have to keep Lemartes in stasis to keep him from tipping over the edge.  Astorath literally goes around killing his brothers to avoid the pain of their continued existence and the possible violence they might wreak. There is no coming back.  You can have your opinion of the miracle of Mephiston's continued existence as I am sure you hold many opinions that do not survive logical scrutiny.  I assume nothing.  I am of the opinion that the Lord of Death transcended and became more through the trial that most cannot come back from. It is clear and useful evidence that you are foolish to discount.

 

Let's tone it down a bit with the unnecessary ad hominems, yeah?

 

I don't have my codices to hand, but I'm 95% sure that the fluff has always been, he was on the brink of death while suffering from the Black Rage, that he did not die and he did ovecome. It's what makes him unique.

 

Mephiston overcoming the Black Rage, does not mean Sanguinius can be resurrected.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

 

Your understanding of the powers of resurrection held in the Blood Angels seed is flawed as well.  Mephiston is the lord of death.  He should not be alive. . . yet he is not dead. . . 

...thats because he didnt die... all he did was survive the onset of the Black Rage and turned it to his advantage. Your assumptions about Mephistons supposed ressurection are greatly exaggerated.

 

You cannot survive the black rage.  They have to keep Lemartes in stasis to keep him from tipping over the edge.  Astorath literally goes around killing his brothers to avoid the pain of their continued existence and the possible violence they might wreak. There is no coming back.  You can have your opinion of the miracle of Mephiston's continued existence as I am sure you hold many opinions that do not survive logical scrutiny.  I assume nothing.  I am of the opinion that the Lord of Death transcended and became more through the trial that most cannot come back from. It is clear and useful evidence that you are foolish to discount.

 

You do realise that Mephiston is supposed to be the exception of the rule, right? It's literally his thing. The reason why he exists as character. The fact that he survived the Black Rage and got control over it for the most part is a mysterium even for the Blood Angels.

 

Also you don't automatically die from the Black Rage. You either die because you are too reckless or because you get executed by the Chaplains. There are enough Deathcompany hidden away in the tower on Baal (or maybe used to be ... I assume they got released to wreck havoc among the Tyranids when they were about to lose on Baal).

[Arkangilos]

The ones hidden away on Baal are those who fell 100 percent to the Red Thirst.

 

Also, as an aside, Mephiston was originally (or at least in third, I also think second), fallen to the red thirst. Most who fall to the red thirst don't fall all the way, and when they do there is no recovery. Mephiston was the exception because Sanguinius came to him in a vision and helped him. Then it was Lemartes that recovered from the Black Rage, and he was the only one that had 100 percent control over it. That then gave the BA hope for both aspects of the flaw. Then they changed Mephiston to the Black Rage and Lemartes lost the full control, and Astorath took his spot of the head chaplain (where as Lemartes used to be, even after having fallen)

[Arkangilos]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your understanding of the powers of resurrection held in the Blood Angels seed is flawed as well. Mephiston is the lord of death. He should not be alive. . . yet he is not dead. . .

...thats because he didnt die... all he did was survive the onset of the Black Rage and turned it to his advantage. Your assumptions about Mephistons supposed ressurection are greatly exaggerated.

You cannot survive the black rage. They have to keep Lemartes in stasis to keep him from tipping over the edge. Astorath literally goes around killing his brothers to avoid the pain of their continued existence and the possible violence they might wreak. There is no coming back. You can have your opinion of the miracle of Mephiston's continued existence as I am sure you hold many opinions that do not survive logical scrutiny. I assume nothing. I am of the opinion that the Lord of Death transcended and became more through the trial that most cannot come back from. It is clear and useful evidence that you are foolish to discount.

How the hell can you criticize other people when they are using real evidence and you are using nothing more than fan theories? There is literally NOTHING official that backs you up but there are at least 7 editions worth of lore that support us.

[Panzer]

It's always problematic when someone tries to argue based on his own headcanon.

[Jolemai]

...and we're done.