Could Sanguinius come back?

[Orpheus Black Blood]

That's a pity :(

[Jolemai]

Folks, if your current contribution to this thread is to chastise others for discussing something you've done before or to simply say you don't wish to have the discussion again, then perhaps it's better to leave the thread and not say anything?

 

Seriously, the tone here and in other threads has been really bad of late. Keep things constructive and debate with respect for your fellow Frater please.

[Panzer]

The other day I got the opportunity to speak with someone higher up in the corporate side of GW in the U.S.  who was also still a super nerd for the genre and still plays his two armies ... we talked for a good hour and he said straight faced and casually that the primarchs will all be returning EXCEPT for the ones that are dead- Horus, Sanguinius, Manus, and Kurze. He said, matter of factly, that they will remain dead because their deaths were core to the entire story and genre.

 

So there you go.

 

Sanguinius is not coming back brothers. But his death and what it caused is at the heart of who we are. So seek olace in that fact.

 

Dorn

Russ

Corax

Khan

 

etc ... all are coming back, same with the traitor/daemon primarchs. Its part of the story they are building up to ...

 

 

 

Actually pretty darned high up

Dunno. Not saying that it's likely he or other dead primarchs come back but "someone I know said" has basically no weight for me. I'd need something with more substance to start believing anything.

 

 

 

Folks, if your current contribution to this thread is to chastise others for discussing something you've done before or to simply say you don't wish to have the discussion again, then perhaps it's better to leave the thread and not say anything?

 

Seriously, the tone here and in other threads has been really bad of late. Keep things constructive and debate with respect for your fellow Frater please.

I apologize, tho I fail to see the point of running in circles. It's not like he brought anything new to the discussion. If someone brings some new and fresh arguments then of course I'm up to talk about it again.

[Karhedron]

Sanguinius is not coming back brothers. But his death and what it caused is at the heart of who we are. So seek olace in that fact.

I find that very sad. Blood Angels were my first army and the thought of the others getting their Primarchs but not us is a great shame.

[brother_b]

I've always enjoyed that aspect, the fact that Sanguinius fought to the death defending the Emperor and Terra. I've always considered the Black Rage and Red Thirst a gift from Sanguinius more than a curse. ;)

 

A gift to unleash on the enemies of the Imperium!

 

Now, hopefully they'll buff Dante a bit, that needs to happen anyway. 

[Arkangilos]

Folks, if your current contribution to this thread is to chastise others for discussing something you've done before or to simply say you don't wish to have the discussion again, then perhaps it's better to leave the thread and not say anything?

 

Seriously, the tone here and in other threads has been really bad of late. Keep things constructive and debate with respect for your fellow Frater please.

Well I mean my main thing was that I was saying it was discussed in this very thread already so he could go back and read the arguments without us having to rehash it all.

[Arkangilos]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331925-could-sanguinius-come-back/page-4

 

Here's part on this page. I had forgotten part of my statements have been removed as well (such as the, "if he saves your life and dies, but gets brought back by the EMT's, does his sacrifice to save you mean less? I mean he "died" saving your life, even if the doctors managed to bring him back").

 

Plus the best comparison (which it was even supposed to be anyways) involves Jesus and biblical references (like half of 40k), and the mods basically shoot that down. Knowing he would die for humanity, willingly dying to help us defeat evil. He was always supposed to be the "Jesus" figure, and Jesus's return didn't cheapen his sacrifice.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Fyi my previous post was not one of malice.

 

Should ask before you delete.....

[Charlo]

I don't think Sanguinius will come back.

 

But we'll see a super Sanguinor imbued with his warp essence of something similar to give us that "Primarch level" hero that the faction is missing.

 

Basically make the Sanguinor like he is in the fluff, a guy who routinely murders Blood Thirsters.

[pandion40]

I'm resently returned to the fold, I didn't read gathering storm so everything I know about it is second hand. But I have a theory that the rift splitting the galaxy is an accident, maybe other events to Such as the return of Guilliman.

 

I think the prophecy in Dante followed the original timeline, nids eat Baal and race Abaddon to Terra. But something happened and the rift formed scattering the nids and much of Abaddons forces.

 

So we're in a new situation with all prophesy null and void. This would allow Sanguinius to be reborn without knowing it would happen.

 

Maybe someone whose read Gathering Storm could say if my little theory is even possible.

 

As for Sanguinius The path I favour is the sanguinor is one of the Heresy age Blood Angels possessed by the spirit of Sanguinius. Maybe Sanguinius connection to his sons prevented him from fully dieing. The new situation allows Sanguinius to fully manifest in the material realm making him the equivalent of a deamon prince loyal to the emperor, there could be other consequences to like increased Legion of the Damed, living saints and such.

 

This keeps Sanguinius dead and even allows us to keep the Black Rage but gives us a kick ass Sanguinius model.

[Arkangilos]

Abbadon wanted the rift to split, and it didn't go against the prophecy that we know of yet.

 

The problem with Abbadon's forces is that they just took advantage that they could attack anywhere they wanted now with the rift, so they just kind of left.

 

But yeah, he planned the rift. That's why he wanted to destroy Cadia and why the events of Angel's Blade happened.

[Jolemai]

Fyi my previous post was not one of malice.

 

Should ask before you delete.....

 

The moderation team removed it because it wasn't constructive and offered little to the debate. Whilst I'm aware there was no malice implied and that it wasn't spam, our forum rules say:

 

 

 

No spamming

 

Spam isn't simply multiple identical posts across the forums, it also includes pointless, off-topic or smart-alec posts anywhere on the board. Remember, the B&C is here to promote constructive discussion of the 40K hobby and anything not contributing to this may be considered spam and deleted.

 

Plus the best comparison (which it was even supposed to be anyways) involves Jesus and biblical references (like half of 40k), and the mods basically shoot that down. Knowing he would die for humanity, willingly dying to help us defeat evil. He was always supposed to be the "Jesus" figure, and Jesus's return didn't cheapen his sacrifice.

 

As per our forum rules:

 

 

 

No off topic discussions

 

We're here to discuss the hobby, not politics, nationalism, religion, sexuality or moral/ethical debates (or cars, or sports, or the latest movie, etc.).

 

Which you know anyway, so why even bother bringing it up again?

[Panzer]

Well no prophecy is 100% sure to happen. The Emperor himself said that he sees multiple futures and is trying to find the way to the one where humanity isn't screwed (aka conquering the galaxy, giving humankind safe warp travel technology with the webway and splitting the warp from the marterium to remove the threat chaos presents among other things).

 

So yeah one or more of the many possible futures is likely to have been like that. Or it's still happening in the future. Who knows, the future is not set in stone. ;)

 

About the Warp Rift being an accident? Well...maybe? Original we thought Abaddon was trying to create a direct pathway to Terra with that. Now instead it's a rift splitting the galaxy in two and giving the forces of Chaos a much easier access to the rest of the galaxy. It's definitely not anywhere near what Cawl tried to achieve by overloading the pylons tho. ^^

[Arkangilos]

 

 

Fyi my previous post was not one of malice.

 

Should ask before you delete.....

The moderation team removed it because it wasn't constructive and offered little to the debate. Whilst I'm aware there was no malice implied and that it wasn't spam, our forum rules say:

No spamming

 

Spam isn't simply multiple identical posts across the forums, it also includes pointless, off-topic or smart-alec posts anywhere on the board. Remember, the B&C is here to promote constructive discussion of the 40K hobby and anything not contributing to this may be considered spam and deleted.

Plus the best comparison (which it was even supposed to be anyways) involves Jesus and biblical references (like half of 40k), and the mods basically shoot that down. Knowing he would die for humanity, willingly dying to help us defeat evil. He was always supposed to be the "Jesus" figure, and Jesus's return didn't cheapen his sacrifice.

As per our forum rules:

No off topic discussions

 

We're here to discuss the hobby, not politics, nationalism, religion, sexuality or moral/ethical debates (or cars, or sports, or the latest movie, etc.).

Which you know anyway, so why even bother bringing it up again?

Because we aren't talking about the religion, we are talking about the background of Sanguinius, and since his sacrifice was largely based in that, him returning is comparable to Jesus returning. The whole, "his sacrifice is diluted if he returns" can only be argued with comparable things, such as someone dying to save you and then the EMT bringing him back (which you removed), Jesus dying to defeat sin and being brought back (which you remove), etc. We literally cannot have this argument because you keep removing anything comparable used as evidence that sacrifice isn't diluted by some form of resurrection. So why even allow the argument at all? Especially when it's been done to death.

 

And I've seen plenty of those (especially regarding sexuality and race) allowed in these contexts.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Just throwing it out here and don't go mad with rage but I have an idea based on some key items below.

 

 

Manus was brought back as a ghost to fight in master of mankind and it is hinted he may lead the legion of the damned.

 

Horus was cloned and stayed loyal to the Emperor.

 

It was rumored "one primarch will turn from the light and one shall come back" or some such rumor.

 

In Dark Imperium Mortarion collected the pieces of his fathers soul to torture for eternity.

 

 

What if (and Allfather forgive this heresy) when Horus slayed Sanguinius using the powers of chaos it corrupted his very soul so the chaos gods now own it? Horus is cloned again without Abaddon there to kill it and returns still loyal. Meanwhile Sanguinius soul is collected and revived by the chaos powers turning him to chaos. This would be possible as Horus slayed him with corrupted powers that tainted his very soul. His soul then floated around the warp for 10k years as various individuals collected fragments until they were united to bring him back. Just a theory and a dark one that I am sure many will not like.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

I still think Sanguinius is not fully finally dead. The signs that parts of him are still alive are all over the place.

I feel he was shattered by Horus(Chaos).

 

Selflessly knowingly going and getting your soul Obliterated to stop Horus is still a noble sacrifice!!

Even (perhaps especially) if you coalesce to get up again 10,000yrs later to carry on the good fight in the grim darkness of the far future... 

 

Because: GW likes money, he is/was/will be one of the main pillars in the story, and the voice in my head said so brothers =)

We will see what the Heresy books have to say when we get to that part down the road a ways I suppose.

 

The Emperor made him out of Vampyre Blood and Angel. Something will RISE eventually in my humble opinion.

GW would be foolish not to do so.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

The other day I got the opportunity to speak with someone higher up in the corporate side of GW in the U.S. who was also still a super nerd for the genre and still plays his two armies ... we talked for a good hour and he said straight faced and casually that the primarchs will all be returning EXCEPT for the ones that are dead- Horus, Sanguinius, Manus, and Kurze. He said, matter of factly, that they will remain dead because their deaths were core to the entire story and genre.

 

So there you go.

 

Sanguinius is not coming back brothers. But his death and what it caused is at the heart of who we are. So seek olace in that fact.

 

Dorn

Russ

Corax

Khan

 

etc ... all are coming back, same with the traitor/daemon primarchs. Its part of the story they are building up to ...

 

 

 

Actually pretty darned high up

Dunno. Not saying that it's likely he or other dead primarchs come back but "someone I know said" has basically no weight for me. I'd need something with more substance to start believing anything.

 

 

Folks, if your current contribution to this thread is to chastise others for discussing something you've done before or to simply say you don't wish to have the discussion again, then perhaps it's better to leave the thread and not say anything?

 

Seriously, the tone here and in other threads has been really bad of late. Keep things constructive and debate with respect for your fellow Frater please.

I apologize, tho I fail to see the point of running in circles. It's not like he brought anything new to the discussion. If someone brings some new and fresh arguments then of course I'm up to talk about it again.

The GW corporate employee I spoke with is in a position to know, and he acted pretty confident as to those Primarchs remaining dead and for the reasons why.

 

I wouldn't lie, but you don't have to believe me? I'm sure there could be a chance he was wrong, or was intentionally :cuss me, but given our conversation and how long we talked, I didn't get that vibe at all. He was very matter of fact when we got on that subject.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

@Arkangilos;

 

It is frustrating when you use the Jesus of Nazareth allegory for Sanguinius. This is also why I used 3-4 other references from literature. It is not meant to bring up discussion about those topics but to show the connections and relevance between them.

 

We all know that 40k is the fictional future verse pulled from the bible where the light and darkness fight over the souls of mankind.

 

@Charlo;

 

This is why I was so frustrated at how fantastic Celestine is yet the Sanguinor is still sub-par.

 

If Sanguinius returns, awesome. If he does not, that's fine, but I want the Sanguinor to take his place, and be the true hope of the Blood Angels as their guiding light/pseudo living embodiment of Sanguinius.

 

Something to think about is how the Devastation of Baal is written. Is the tower destroyed? Do they save Sanguinius's body, or is it even referenced in the upcoming novel. That might answer some of our questions.

[Arkangilos]

@Arkangilos;

 

It is frustrating when you use the Jesus of Nazareth allegory for Sanguinius. This is also why I used 3-4 other references from literature. It is not meant to bring up discussion about those topics but to show the connections and relevance between them.

 

We all know that 40k is the fictional future verse pulled from the bible where the light and darkness fight over the souls of mankind.

 

@Charlo;

 

This is why I was so frustrated at how fantastic Celestine is yet the Sanguinor is still sub-par.

 

If Sanguinius returns, awesome. If he does not, that's fine, but I want the Sanguinor to take his place, and be the true hope of the Blood Angels as their guiding light/pseudo living embodiment of Sanguinius.

 

Something to think about is how the Devastation of Baal is written. Is the tower destroyed? Do they save Sanguinius's body, or is it even referenced in the upcoming novel. That might answer some of our questions.

I don't understand what you are saying? You used it, so why is it annoying when I use it in the exact same way? And I know you used them all, I liked your comment when you made it :p

 

As an aside, I'm not trying to accuse Jolemai of anything or censoring it (he did leave it up), my bit was more directed at the other threads. Nor am I trying to start things :) I was just trying to explain why at least I got frustrated and said it's been discussed to death and to just go back and read what we said last time, and that's just because it has been a frustrating subject because we have to tread so carefully when trying to use evidence why that claim is wrong.

[Blindhamster]

Yes i found it frustrating when one of the clearest influences for the story of sanguinius cannot be talked about, even in the context of sanguinius.

 

I also fall into the category that sees zero point in continuing that discussion again when it ends up being fairly one sided due to censorship. But it is what it is.

 

Time will tell it the Angel will come back in any form, it could make for a good story, or it could not. We shall see!!

[TheHarrower]

I hope he comes back. The Sanguinor might be some sort of replacement, but rules wise he isn't he even close. A giant winged Sanguinius model like Bobby G. would be amazing and an instant buy. In the world of 40K now, I think all the armies will get some sort of Primarch equivalent. Otherwise, how can they compete?

[Arkangilos]

I hope he comes back. The Sanguinor might be some sort of replacement, but rules wise he isn't he even close. A giant winged Sanguinius model like Bobby G. would be amazing and an instant buy. In the world of 40K now, I think all the armies will get some sort of Primarch equivalent. Otherwise, how can they compete?

Several armies don't have Primarchs and they do fine.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I hope Sanguinius stays dead, as harsh as it sounds coming from a die-hard Blood Angel player. I fear that GW won't pull off a good story about a topic that I'm sceptic about to begin with, and then it's just bandwagon guys crying tears of joy that they can now field their primarch in a 2000 point skirmish battle, like the blue poster boys.

GW can beef up the Sanguinor to ridiculous heights to match the name and background, I couldn't care less.

 

A 30k model would be nice - and damn, I'm sure as hell waiting for it! But the 40k model would simply not be needed, no matter the sales opportunity. The Blood Angels don't need their primarch back, they're doing mighty fine with the guidance he emitted 10 milennia ago. Especially since he's been confirmed as dead.

 

 

Snorri

[Arkangilos]

I agree completely with that.

 

(And if some of you are confused based on my arguments, my argument has never been that he should come back, it's just been against the sacrifice thing. I don't think he should come back unless it's done well, and in my opinion like a legion of the damned kind of thing where he's a greater daemon of the Emperor kind of thing where he pops into being at moments of great need, which is like the Sanguinor, so basically only as an Imperial daemon faction, not a BA faction, and he shouldn't be much like the old one). I don't think we need him. I just hate the belief that sacrifices are cheapened by resurrection.

[TheHarrower]

 

I hope he comes back. The Sanguinor might be some sort of replacement, but rules wise he isn't he even close. A giant winged Sanguinius model like Bobby G. would be amazing and an instant buy. In the world of 40K now, I think all the armies will get some sort of Primarch equivalent. Otherwise, how can they compete?

Several armies don't have Primarchs and they do fine.

 

Several out of how many? I'm not a huge fan of hero hammer, but I don't want Blood Angels to be pigeon holed into a mono build  to deal with the likes of Magnus, Mortarion, Roboute, etc... And honestly I have my doubts they'll be able to pull that off let alone make Blood Angels work at all without some sort of Primarch powered level beatstick. They can't even decide how the DC should work. All they do is nerf them every release.

 

 

A 30k model would be nice - and damn, I'm sure as hell waiting for it! But the 40k model would simply not be needed, no matter the sales opportunity. The Blood Angels don't need their primarch back, they're doing mighty fine with the guidance he emitted 10 milennia ago. Especially since he's been confirmed as dead.

 

 

 

Fluff-wise we may not need our Primarch back, but rules wise we need something. I have faith they can introduce our Primarch for the quick cash grab and gave him ridiculous stats so he works on the tabletop. Outside of that, I have little faith they can come up with adequate rules for us. 9 point angelus boltguns? Dante being the least powerful yet most expensive of all the Chapter Masters? Etc. I view Sanguinus as our last hope. Otherwise, I feel Blood Angels we'll just remain where we are now. Languishing in mediocrity. I'll play them either way, but it would be nice if we were good again.