Could Sanguinius come back?

[Boudan]

I think 'civil war' as a theme was handled very well with the Badab war.  Rather than further marginalizing that conflict, I hope something else is done.

[sockwithaticket]

 

I'd argue there's no story they can tell that would legitimise bringing him back. Especially not with the current writing staff (or guidelines they're being instructed to write to).

Completely disagree. If they can make an Ork death star(s) be really : cool they can write this well.

 

I am on book 5 of the beast arises and nothing has disappointed so far.

 

I feel like if you don't have faith in the writers then why even participate in the universe? Yes we've seen heterosexual & homosexual tendencies between space marines (when they are asexual) yes we've seen bonkers things happen like entire chapters being wiped out or over exaggerated numbers of deaths. Entire continent size populations blinked out in the span of five pages, but to say you don't have faith in the writers is just silly.

 

 

 

 

It won't take anything away from Sanguinius' sacrifice, and the over reaction to rumors, speculation, and here-say leaves one shaking his head.

To be clear I'm not necessarily talking about the novels, but the recent campaign books that actually drive the universe storyline.

 

Plus there are some writers in whom I do have faith, i.e. the FW lot with the Imperial Armour books, while most of the stuff that initially caught me in the 40k web circa 2000 hasn't yet been retconned or completely undermined. One of those factors was these genetically modified super soldiers who are collectively orphans attempting to muddle through without their absent or dead fathers.

 

 

Of course bringing him back detracts from the sacrifice, in the same way that superheroes dying means nothing when you know they'll contrive a way to bring them back. I hate it in comic books and I hate it here. 

[Jolemai]

Folks, keep it civil, constructive and away from RL references please.

[Arkangilos]

Folks, keep it civil, constructive and away from RL references please.

I don't understand why my first response was taken out. I can understand the "garbage" one was, but the one asking if someone saved your life and then they came back to life, would you think any less of them one seemed pretty valid to me.

[simison]

This is where I stand.

 

I am split in half.

 

The fanboy in me is beyond ecstatic that I may be able to field Sanguinius in all of his glory in 40k, representing true nobility as the Blood Angels crusade against the enemies of Mankind.

 

The writer in me is furious and terrified. Sanguinius' sacrifice is a cornerstone of the entire setting and one of the key pillars of the Blood Angels' character. To have him come back is in serious danger of cheapening his original sacrifice. That and I'm not sure I trust GW to handle this potential rebirth well.

[Jolemai]

 

 

Folks, keep it civil, constructive and away from RL references please.

I don't understand why my first response was taken out. I can understand the "garbage" one was, but the one asking if someone saved your life and then they came back to life, would you think any less of them one seemed pretty valid to me.

Moved to PMs to keep this on topic.

[Panzer]

I still think the argument about him coming back cheapening the sacrifice himself is rubbish. Maybe it would feel slightly cheaper for the reader but in-universe it shouldn't make ANY difference as long as he didn't know he comes back.

[simison]

I still think the argument about him coming back cheapening the sacrifice himself is rubbish. Maybe it would feel slightly cheaper for the reader but in-universe it shouldn't make ANY difference as long as he didn't know he comes back.

 

I agree, but whoever would theoretically write this scenario needs to do it well to make it work. Otherwise, the sacrifice would be cheapened if it is written poorly. 

 

Like say if this imagined writer decided that Sanguinius had a vision that he might/would come back as part of this potential retcon. That would spoil the impact. 

 

After digesting it over a day, I'm less hostile towards the idea, but I'm really wary. One guy with the Brotherhood of the Lost said he wanted Sanguinius to come back and then become corrupted. Oh, how I hated that suggestion, but, as unlikely as that is, bringing Sanguinius back does open him back up to any potential corruption/failure and so on. 

 

Furthermore, I feel like having Horus and Sanguinius stay dead should open up other Primarchs to have more of the spotlight, like the Khan. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Im going into record mode;

 

I've looked to the sacrifice of Jesus of Nazareth as the prime example: people the world over do not count his sacrifice as anything less than selflessness. To those who believe him the messiah his sacrifice is not lessened by his return.

 

Non theological readers also do not question Jesus' resurrection as cheapening the sacrifice of death.

 

C.S. Lewis did something similar with Aslan against the white witch in the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. Many scholars, do not interpret his sacrifice as anything less than symbolic, and his return to mean he is something greater with "purpose"

 

Tolkien's Gandalf the Grey's sacrifice was not belittled when he came back as Gandalf the White. He had lived for millennia before his death at the hands of the Balrog. Do you think his death was cheapened?

 

I mean I can go on with non "comic book" references and characters where the same thing happens. Do you feel any of the aforementioned situations are belittled by resurrection? After humiliation and sacrifice?

 

Edit: we also know in each of the three cases above they knew they were going to die, to be shamed, etc.

[Panzer]

To build on that: in comics death/resurrection story lines feel cheap because they happen ALL THE TIME and not just for a select few characters but most of them! It tells us a lot that one of the only deaths that were considered meaningful was Barry Allen because he stayed long enough dead to allow a new Flash to rise and build his own fandom. And there is actually a damn website dedicated to the fact whether Wolverine is still dead or not.

Those things are on a completely different level than any resurrection in 40k could ever be unless they start killing off characters every few months to keep bringing them back.

[Calistarius]

I dunno, really. I'm torn on this. Part of me will feel left out if we don't get a primarch equivalent character to use. Another part is worried it will be done so with the lamest of stories, like the Primaris marines. My opinion, of course. I sort of like the idea of the Sanguinor revealing himself to be Azkaellon instead. Make the Sanguinor a Demi-god in the tabletop to reflect his storied appearances.

[Guest]

Now I have a few drink in me so just play along. What if...

 

Lion rises again and as always see's himself as heir of the emperor, starting a fight with roboute. other primarchs come along and take sides. Russ is still in the warp looking how to revive the Emperor. Russ comes back form the warp looking like Odin and raise communications with Khan. Khan explains how they are at civil war, the wolves are the last fortification against the Eye as Cadia has fallen, but have taken heavy losses. Lion and Roboute are going at it and trying to figure who is the heir of the emperor. Khan asks what Russ has been up to. Russ explains he found the World Tree (Yggdrasil) and began to meditate underneath it to find the answers. Magnus turned himself into a snake and took one of his eyes, disturbing Russ vision and entrapped him there. Khan asks him to choose a side which Russ simply states "We decide who would rule 10k years ago" Khan: "Sanguinius lays dead on Baal that is under siege from the Tyranids" Russ: "I have failed to find a way to revive the Emperor, but I can save his true heir. Send me your fastest ship" Upon Baal Russ works his voodoo/Rune magic taking the Sanguinor Soul and boom you have Sanguinius. He takes his place as rightful heir of the Emperor, Russ meanwhile goes to Fenris to bolster his sons and put his boot in some daemon heads. Sanguinius is not complete, the memories of his death still course through him during times of stress (kinda like super PTSD) this allows the Death Company to remain. Meanwhile with Abaddon no longer stopping Fabius, and a dead Primaris Marine upon his table Fabius simply mutters the words "Welcome back Warmaster Horus".

 

It may not be perfect but it gives Russ time in the warp purpose, it gives Sanguinius coming back purpose but him and his sons still have the black rage flaw. 

[Panzer]

So....you mean another HH plotline? I mean yeah GW is re-using a lot of that recently but that would go a bit too far I'd say. Especially because it would completely ignore Chaos as serious thread.

The IoM really can't afford another civil war with that many galaxy threatening enemies at hand unlike it used to be 10k years ago lol

[redshadow]

Now I have a few drink in me so just play along. What if...

 

Lion rises again and as always see's himself as heir of the emperor, starting a fight with roboute. other primarchs come along and take sides. Russ is still in the warp looking how to revive the Emperor. Russ comes back form the warp looking like Odin and raise communications with Khan. Khan explains how they are at civil war, the wolves are the last fortification against the Eye as Cadia has fallen, but have taken heavy losses. Lion and Roboute are going at it and trying to figure who is the heir of the emperor. Khan asks what Russ has been up to. Russ explains he found the World Tree (Yggdrasil) and began to meditate underneath it to find the answers. Magnus turned himself into a snake and took one of his eyes, disturbing Russ vision and entrapped him there. Khan asks him to choose a side which Russ simply states "We decide who would rule 10k years ago" Khan: "Sanguinius lays dead on Baal that is under siege from the Tyranids" Russ: "I have failed to find a way to revive the Emperor, but I can save his true heir. Send me your fastest ship" Upon Baal Russ works his voodoo/Rune magic taking the Sanguinor Soul and boom you have Sanguinius. He takes his place as rightful heir of the Emperor, Russ meanwhile goes to Fenris to bolster his sons and put his boot in some daemon heads. Sanguinius is not complete, the memories of his death still course through him during times of stress (kinda like super PTSD) this allows the Death Company to remain. Meanwhile with Abaddon no longer stopping Fabius, and a dead Primaris Marine upon his table Fabius simply mutters the words "Welcome back Warmaster Horus".

 

It may not be perfect but it gives Russ time in the warp purpose, it gives Sanguinius coming back purpose but him and his sons still have the black rage flaw. 

 

can i post this on the 40k facebook page :)

[durdle-durdle]

It's bettert than my guess of "tyranids eat Baal (and consequently sanguinius' body). Primarch angel tyranid gets made, rebels against the hive mind, instant primarch."

 

I was also drunk when I made that guess so...

[Guest]

 

Now I have a few drink in me so just play along. What if...

 

Lion rises again and as always see's himself as heir of the emperor, starting a fight with roboute. other primarchs come along and take sides. Russ is still in the warp looking how to revive the Emperor. Russ comes back form the warp looking like Odin and raise communications with Khan. Khan explains how they are at civil war, the wolves are the last fortification against the Eye as Cadia has fallen, but have taken heavy losses. Lion and Roboute are going at it and trying to figure who is the heir of the emperor. Khan asks what Russ has been up to. Russ explains he found the World Tree (Yggdrasil) and began to meditate underneath it to find the answers. Magnus turned himself into a snake and took one of his eyes, disturbing Russ vision and entrapped him there. Khan asks him to choose a side which Russ simply states "We decide who would rule 10k years ago" Khan: "Sanguinius lays dead on Baal that is under siege from the Tyranids" Russ: "I have failed to find a way to revive the Emperor, but I can save his true heir. Send me your fastest ship" Upon Baal Russ works his voodoo/Rune magic taking the Sanguinor Soul and boom you have Sanguinius. He takes his place as rightful heir of the Emperor, Russ meanwhile goes to Fenris to bolster his sons and put his boot in some daemon heads. Sanguinius is not complete, the memories of his death still course through him during times of stress (kinda like super PTSD) this allows the Death Company to remain. Meanwhile with Abaddon no longer stopping Fabius, and a dead Primaris Marine upon his table Fabius simply mutters the words "Welcome back Warmaster Horus".

 

It may not be perfect but it gives Russ time in the warp purpose, it gives Sanguinius coming back purpose but him and his sons still have the black rage flaw. 

 

can i post this on the 40k facebook page

 

 

sure go ahead *shrug* I don't have anything to lose.

[Sete]

You don't need Sanguinius, you have Guilliman now

[RedemptionNL]

Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if one of the reasons Guilleman is coming to Baal is to revive his Brother with his new-found technology to help him in the fight against all the daemon primarchs coming out of hiding.

[Sete]

Nah. He's going to Macragge to solo Mortarion now.

[Lasuria]

Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if one of the reasons Guilleman is coming to Baal is to revive his Brother with his new-found technology to help him in the fight against all the daemon primarchs coming out of hiding.

 

I've had the exact same thought ...

[Guest]

 

 

Honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if one of the reasons Guilleman is coming to Baal is to revive his Brother with his new-found technology to help him in the fight against all the daemon primarchs coming out of hiding.

I've had the exact same thought ...

Guilliman can do AAALL the things. Guilliman going to single handed kill all 4 chaos daemon lords and while doing the IoM financial records and inventing a new battleship superior than the rest.

[vahouth]

Could this be Sanguinius?

 

He looks like Sanguinor but he's not wearing any armor.

[bolvar]

Nah, that's Celestine brother for sure :D

[Guest pandion40]

I'm torn part of me says Sanguinius should be left in 30k but on the other hand the 30k writers of the novels and forge world have done sod all with him or the Blood Angels. Forge World are working their way through the legions so I can understand that but we've had one muh novel and a few lacklustre appearances in the novels. They seem to be of the opinion we did nothing interesting until the seige of Terra while at the same time adding all this interesting lore to the other primarchs that didn't happen before either. To be honest I haven't read any heresy books since the start of the imperium Secondus, was unhappy with BL in general at the time and the lack of anything good involving BA then just finished me off, if something great did happen let me know.

 

So a part of me would like him back just so they can do something interesting with him I don't already know about. Maybe bring him back as a warp creature, not tainted though. Say the sanginor was Sanguinius spirt or a fragment of it possessing the original Sanguinor or Askellon, then have a novel or event that awakens or releases Sanguinius spirt, Basically make him a Deamon Prince of the Emperor. You still have the tragedy of him being dead and can't stick around. On the other hand that would severely restrict the stories you can do with him. Basically show up kick arse and disappear.

 

So I guess I'm a little on the fence but lean towards the idea of bringing him back as I agree that as long as he went to his death believing it would be permanent bringing him back doesn't lessen his sacrifice for me. But I understand why people would disagree. Besides with so many other less controversial Primarchs available to bring back it's not going to be an issue for a long time. They'll bring back Russ next, it's Russ, Guilliman and their chapters that GW and most of their writers love, with Chaos Primarchs just behind.

[vahouth]

Nah, that's Celestine brother for sure

LOL no, no boobies. :P