Could Sanguinius come back?

[Duke_Nuke]

I was told well over a year ago that there is a book out/coming (he didnt say or i wasnt listening) in which Sanguinius sarcophagus starts to boil and that he has recovered and that the psychic backlash of the black rage is actually Sanguinius exerting his psychic abilities over his sons in his comatose state. We were discussing the then early rumours on guilliman coming back and he stated 100% was ect, I have since discovered he is a writer at GW and was visiting his mates store.. I'm sure writers throw out loads of ideas and some stick and others don't but I would not write off the fact that this has most likely already happened or been canned

 

Edit: he also implied that the games designers and fluff people don't necessarily sing off the same song sheet as the black library people, what may be the case for one may not be for the other

[Silverson]

Well I would love for him to come back both for the fluff and added novels we would receive from black library and for the amazing centre piece model we would get on the table top.

 

I understand the fluff of bringing him back could be butchered but to be it could be so right having him come back in a multitude of different realatise.

 

As his old self, black rage sanguinius where he is stuck thinking he's fighting Horus and his connection to his legion has been what has been causing the black rage in the blood angelsfor the passed 10k years. He could come back as stated as a warp entity etc....

 

There are so many possibilities it could be fantastic.

[Panzer]

I hope he comes back. The Sanguinor might be some sort of replacement, but rules wise he isn't he even close. A giant winged Sanguinius model like Bobby G. would be amazing and an instant buy. In the world of 40K now, I think all the armies will get some sort of Primarch equivalent. Otherwise, how can they compete?

Rules are honestly no argument.

As said other armies don't necessarily have a primarch either and if the Sanguinor would get rules on the level of how he is depicted in the fluff he'd be on the same power level of any primarch...maybe even above some lol

[Aothaine]

I don't think he should come back. The emperor is dying finally according to "The Talon of Horus". Let sanguinius stay dead. We don't need a primarch to be good. But if you really want a model wait for the forge world release imho. The sculpts there usually look better.

 

I also don't like the primarch's coming back though so I am a bit biased on this. I think they should have stayed as mythical figures in the background playing the "gods-game".

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

A 30k model would be nice - and damn, I'm sure as hell waiting for it! But the 40k model would simply not be needed, no matter the sales opportunity. The Blood Angels don't need their primarch back, they're doing mighty fine with the guidance he emitted 10 milennia ago. Especially since he's been confirmed as dead.

 

 

 

Fluff-wise we may not need our Primarch back, but rules wise we need something. I have faith they can introduce our Primarch for the quick cash grab and gave him ridiculous stats so he works on the tabletop. Outside of that, I have little faith they can come up with adequate rules for us. 9 point angelus boltguns? Dante being the least powerful yet most expensive of all the Chapter Masters? Etc. I view Sanguinus as our last hope. Otherwise, I feel Blood Angels we'll just remain where we are now. Languishing in mediocrity. I'll play them either way, but it would be nice if we were good again.

 

 

I don't think so. What we really need is a codex written by people who know what Blood Angels are about and aren't blind to point costs. Most of the issues we have atm can be solved by adequate costing of units/models, and from there on we can work our way up. If we really need the Sanguinor(gods I hate that name :D ) to be the beefy uber-dude, then please, by all means, have him. I'd rather see the rest of our troops brought in line with the SM dex when it comes to point costs, a fitting chapter tactic(Descent of Angels) and the Flaw represented well than one model being available to us which won't solve any of our problems.

 

All I'm saying is, we should pick up where 7th left us, get some cool relics(deepstriking closer than 9 inches, anyone?) and provide a well-balanced codex to our beloved army. And by "we" I kind of mean that GW should do all those things.

 

And also not make DC suck.

 

Snorri

[Blindhamster]

Gosh I hope we don't get descent of angels as our chapter tactic...

[SnorriSnorrison]

Well, it can't be the same as it was before, but there's so many ways to implement such a rule. :)

It's just that the Flaw can't be a chapter tactic, since it's a genetic illness.

 

Oh, and perhaps fix Lucifer engines! They're pretty "meh" at the moment.

 

Snorri

[Panzer]

Well, it can't be the same as it was before, but there's so many ways to implement such a rule.

It's just that the Flaw can't be a chapter tactic, since it's a genetic illness.

 

Oh, and perhaps fix Lucifer engines! They're pretty "meh" at the moment.

 

Snorri

Why can't the flaw be the Chapter tactic equivalent? It would affect all Infantry, Bikes and Dreadnoughts. Do we have any other unit that should be affected by the flaw? Not saying it will be that but it's definitely not impossible. ;)

[Arkangilos]

Well if we had genetic trait, we could then get separate chapter tactics for the successors and such.

[Blindhamster]

i just really REALLY dislike the idea that our chapter tactic would affect jump infantry and nothing else

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

@Arkangilos;

 

It is frustrating when you use the Jesus of Nazareth allegory for Sanguinius. This is also why I used 3-4 other references from literature. It is not meant to bring up discussion about those topics but to show the connections and relevance between them.

 

We all know that 40k is the fictional future verse pulled from the bible where the light and darkness fight over the souls of mankind.

 

@Charlo;

 

This is why I was so frustrated at how fantastic Celestine is yet the Sanguinor is still sub-par.

 

If Sanguinius returns, awesome. If he does not, that's fine, but I want the Sanguinor to take his place, and be the true hope of the Blood Angels as their guiding light/pseudo living embodiment of Sanguinius.

 

Something to think about is how the Devastation of Baal is written. Is the tower destroyed? Do they save Sanguinius's body, or is it even referenced in the upcoming novel. That might answer some of our questions.

I don't understand what you are saying? You used it, so why is it annoying when I use it in the exact same way? And I know you used them all, I liked your comment when you made it :p

 

As an aside, I'm not trying to accuse Jolemai of anything or censoring it (he did leave it up), my bit was more directed at the other threads. Nor am I trying to start things :) I was just trying to explain why at least I got frustrated and said it's been discussed to death and to just go back and read what we said last time, and that's just because it has been a frustrating subject because we have to tread so carefully when trying to use evidence why that claim is wrong.

Right sorry. I meant that we can't really talk about it. That's what makes it frustrating!

 

I added the others in an attempt to sound less preachy etc.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

I hope he comes back. The Sanguinor might be some sort of replacement, but rules wise he isn't he even close. A giant winged Sanguinius model like Bobby G. would be amazing and an instant buy. In the world of 40K now, I think all the armies will get some sort of Primarch equivalent. Otherwise, how can they compete?

Several armies don't have Primarchs and they do fine.

 

 

This really doesnt mean much as only Ultramarines and kSons have Primarches currently. Both are extremely powerful... so those without could always do better.

[Indefragable]

Most people on here have heard enough of my thoughts on the matter already.

 

Suffice to say, we bring back Sangy, why not bring back Horus as well, and return the Emperor to full status? And Ferrus Manus and Curze as well! People love repeats...let's get Heresy 2.0 cranked up for real!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They are not going to do a Heresy 2.o.

[TheHarrower]

 

 

A 30k model would be nice - and damn, I'm sure as hell waiting for it! But the 40k model would simply not be needed, no matter the sales opportunity. The Blood Angels don't need their primarch back, they're doing mighty fine with the guidance he emitted 10 milennia ago. Especially since he's been confirmed as dead.

 

 

 

Fluff-wise we may not need our Primarch back, but rules wise we need something. I have faith they can introduce our Primarch for the quick cash grab and gave him ridiculous stats so he works on the tabletop. Outside of that, I have little faith they can come up with adequate rules for us. 9 point angelus boltguns? Dante being the least powerful yet most expensive of all the Chapter Masters? Etc. I view Sanguinus as our last hope. Otherwise, I feel Blood Angels we'll just remain where we are now. Languishing in mediocrity. I'll play them either way, but it would be nice if we were good again.

 

 

I don't think so. What we really need is a codex written by people who know what Blood Angels are about and aren't blind to point costs. Most of the issues we have atm can be solved by adequate costing of units/models, and from there on we can work our way up. If we really need the Sanguinor(gods I hate that name ) to be the beefy uber-dude, then please, by all means, have him. I'd rather see the rest of our troops brought in line with the SM dex when it comes to point costs, a fitting chapter tactic(Descent of Angels) and the Flaw represented well than one model being available to us which won't solve any of our problems.

 

All I'm saying is, we should pick up where 7th left us, get some cool relics(deepstriking closer than 9 inches, anyone?) and provide a well-balanced codex to our beloved army. And by "we" I kind of mean that GW should do all those things.

 

And also not make DC suck.

 

Snorri

 

 

I agree 100%, but to be honest I don't think "people who know what Blood Angels are about" even exist. That's the main reason I started the Blood Angel Lore vs. Gameplay Identity thread and in 6 pages no one has really come to any sort of consensus. You look at the most vocal play testers of 40K we have in Reece and co. from Frontline Gaming, and stuff they say about Blood Angels blows my mind. We're the best close combat Space Marine army in the game? Lol. You just need to stack multiple auras? OK. Because adding a tax from a Chaplain, Captain, Corbulo, Dante, and Psychic buffs from a Libby or Libby Dread are what Blood Angels armies are all about.  Do all the characters in the army magically teleport from battle to battle across the entire galaxy? It's so dumb.

 

Anyway, I look at the Sanguinus as the last great hope, because for the current crop of designers that are at GW creating a beefstick like him is fairly easy to do and they've done it before. They clearly can't figure out what makes a good assault unit good. They can't even adequately do point costs for Angelus Boltguns and Encarmine Blades and don't get me started on how they keep gutting the poor Death Company. I'm not trying to come across as super whiney cry baby about all this. I love 8th edition and what's it done for the hobby. I have a lot of fun playing the Blood Angels now and I have been doing really well, but I just want my army to feel like the Blood Angels again. I want people afraid of assault units and all that. That's the element of the game that I miss and that's the thing I don't have faith they'll be able to bring back without Sanguinius. I hope I'm wrong. Until then, we'll just have to wait and see. 

[Arkangilos]

The thing is that they do know what our army is supposed to be, but there is a downside no one is ever willing to accept. It's called the Flaw for a reason.

[Silverson]

The thing is that they do know what our army is supposed to be, but there is a downside no one is ever willing to accept. It's called the Flaw for a reason.

But that Is not all that we are, blood angels are more than the red thirst and black rage.

 

The black rage is already well catered for in our death company and dreadnought.

 

The edit thirst on the other hand

In a 2000 point game with say 3 x 10 man tactical squads, 2 x 10 man vanguard veterans squads, a 5 man devistator squad, 2 x 10 man assault squads and 2 characters. From what I have seen suggested with units having to move towards the nearest enemy on a dice roll of a 1 that would mean that for as long as that army list is still whole units that, 1.5 units will succumb to the red thirst per turn, and over an average of 6 turns that would mean 9 times units would fall to the red thirst (but probably closer to 6 by the time we loose units etc). In a single battle there shouldn't be a statistical probability that 2 out of every 3 infantry/bike or dreadnought units succumbs to the red thirst.

It's the curse they keep in check every day not let in out in every other skirmish/ battle they are engaged in. And certainly not where a full 10 man tactical unit succumbs to it on every other battle field and all march forward into the enemies gun line, maybe 1 model but not a full unit.

[Arkangilos]

Lol if you say so. Later today when I get home I'll start pulling out quotes from the old codices and what not.

[Panzer]

 

It's the curse they keep in check every day not let in out in every other skirmish/ battle they are engaged in. And certainly not where a full 10 man tactical unit succumbs to it on every other battle field and all march forward into the enemies gun line, maybe 1 model but not a full unit.

 

Well it's pretty much always only one or two Marines in a unit who succumb to the Red Thirst in the heat of battle...but how would you represent that in the rules? You can't let people make checks for every single model. So either you make it a flat bonus thing for the whole army or you let them test unit by unit.

Some abstraction is required here to make it work for the game. Either that or you ignore it completely and make it a fluff-only thing ... which would suck just as much.

[Panzer]

On a different note, something that came to my mind: if they wanted to give us a drawback for the red thirst they could give us something simple as having an additional casualty on a 6 on battleshock tests. Tho I doubt they'd give us anything to represent it being a flaw in the first place.

[TheHarrower]

On a different note, something that came to my mind: if they wanted to give us a drawback for the red thirst they could give us something simple as having an additional casualty on a 6 on battleshock tests. Tho I doubt they'd give us anything to represent it being a flaw in the first place.

 

Ugh. That would be so awful. Survivability is already a huge concern.

[Panzer]

 

On a different note, something that came to my mind: if they wanted to give us a drawback for the red thirst they could give us something simple as having an additional casualty on a 6 on battleshock tests. Tho I doubt they'd give us anything to represent it being a flaw in the first place.

 

Ugh. That would be so awful. Survivability is already a huge concern.

 

Lol how would that be aweful. Battleshock barely matters. Especially not for MSU and even less for MSU with ATSKNF.

[Blindhamster]

perhaps Corbulos current red grail rule should just be an army wide rule to represent the thirst setting in, roll a 6 to hit and get an extra attack.

Means only a few models in a unit might briefly succumb to it.

[TheHarrower]

 

 

On a different note, something that came to my mind: if they wanted to give us a drawback for the red thirst they could give us something simple as having an additional casualty on a 6 on battleshock tests. Tho I doubt they'd give us anything to represent it being a flaw in the first place.

 

Ugh. That would be so awful. Survivability is already a huge concern.

 

Lol how would that be aweful. Battleshock barely matters. Especially not for MSU and even less for MSU with ATSKNF.

 

 

Not everyone runs MSU. It comes up for me occasionally where I'm pulling a model or two even with the reroll. Last thing I want to do is add to the total.

[Panzer]

perhaps Corbulos current red grail rule should just be an army wide rule to represent the thirst setting in, roll a 6 to hit and get an extra attack.

 

Means only a few models in a unit might briefly succumb to it.

Sounds good to me honestly. Not a gamebreaking chapter tactic equivalent but also not too terrible. The more interesting stuff would come with Stratagems and Warlord traits anyway.