Shadow War: Armageddon, Chaos factions

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Hi everyone

 

So the new Armageddon game went up for advance order today.  With that, there also a PDF on the Games Workshop web site for the different faction & there upgrades.

 

I though I'd create this topic discuss how people are going to make there kill teams.  Maybe show some cool conversion since there a lot of different option & wargear as well as post up some battle report.

 

I'm currently looking that running a Chaos Champion, 1x Chaos Marine, 1x Chaos Marine w/Heavy weapon & then few cultist, as well as trying out some of the new cool wargear.  Already bought another box of Chaos Marines just for this.  I'm going to check out the PDF on the GW web site later today to work out my list.

[Panzer]

Honestly since I can't have even a single Noise Marine for now....I will concentrate on my Tau team first. :P

[Slave to Darkness]

Workin on a truescale Word Bearers warband. Unsure on squad members and gear yet, gonna leave that until I have the minis finished then I will see what I have to work with.

[WarriorFish]

From the looks of it loading up on cultists might not be a great idea in the long term, so probably use them as some cannon fodder to keep your Marines trucking and improving? Marks are interesting but have the same hallmarks of regular usage in strength, though the +1A Khorne mark looks handy.

PDF download is here if anyone has missed it

[Panzer]

From the looks of it loading up on cultists might not be a great idea in the long term, so probably use them as some cannon fodder to keep your Marines trucking and improving? Marks are interesting but have the same hallmarks of regular usage in strength, though the +1A Khorne mark looks handy.

PDF download is here if anyone has missed it

Don't forget the golden rule: "There is quality in quantity."

Depending on the skills available swarming the enemy with cheap cultists + leader + heavy weapon specalists might be a thing. They are also cheap to replace so casualties probably aren't that much of a problem.

....I might start a Word Bearers team after all. :D

[Plaguecaster]

Sucks the only way to give your guys a mark is only for the specialists :( I was so looking forward to a Nurgle warband .... well it'll still look like one just won't get any extra rules :( I'll have to try look at the rules (if I can find them) but thinking of going aspring champ, 3 gunners (maybe 2 plasma and a lascannon) plus as much cultist I can squeeze in

 

God I hope GW does DLC rules for the traitor legions

[Panzer]

Sucks the only way to give your guys a mark is only for the specialists I was so looking forward to a Nurgle warband .... well it'll still look like one just won't get any extra rules I'll have to try look at the rules (if I can find them) but thinking of going aspring champ, 3 gunners (maybe 2 plasma and a lascannon) plus as much cultist I can squeeze in

God I hope GW does DLC rules for the traitor legions

No clue where you are seeing this.

It says "The following special rule applies to all members of a Chaos Space Marine kill team, other than Chaos Cultists". Nowhere it's said Chaos Gunner, Chaos Space Marine specialist or similar and the Chaos Gunner entry doesn't mention Marks specifically either.

[Panzer]

And to where to find the rules....scroll up lol.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Thanks Warriorfish for the link :D  Check them out for the list & wargear Chaos Marines can take.

 

So when time permit I'm going to try sort out my own force.  Hopeful be able to buy the box set next weekend for the rule book

 

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt347/Insane-Psychopath/2016/P1070010_zpsustma4gn.jpg

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, it's for all CSM :) I'm thinking that a few Marines with cultist shields (to be replaced accordingly :P ) is a good plan, and perhaps the best as you need a few mooks to keep numbers up and relative costs down. I'd like to try a pure CSM list too, see what that can do with all your 3+ saves, could be a fun way to mix marks for some character and bonuses too. It's a shame there some more variety in build isn't available but there's scope for additions should GW want, so maybe that will change one day.

[Panzer]

Indeed, it's for all CSM I'm thinking that a few Marines with cultist shields (to be replaced accordingly ) is a good plan, and perhaps the best as you need a few mooks to keep numbers up and relative costs down. I'd like to try a pure CSM list too, see what that can do with all your 3+ saves, could be a fun way to mix marks for some character and bonuses too. It's a shame there some more variety in build isn't available but there's scope for additions should GW want, so maybe that will change one day.

Yeah so far we are the only kill team capable of playing 100% power armored guys. :P (let us just pretend there is no team capable of playing 100% TDA guys :D )

Damn all those ideas....i'm even thinking about some kind of Chaos Deathwatch with members with different marks now. :D

[Slave to Darkness]

Just talked a few ppl into 'Shadow War - Calth', I loved the audio book 'Censure' and the Mark of Calth anthology, gonna enjoy crushing Smurf skulls and using the remains to potty train my cultists.

[Plaguecaster]

Sucks the only way to give your guys a mark is only for the specialists I was so looking forward to a Nurgle warband .... well it'll still look like one just won't get any extra rules I'll have to try look at the rules (if I can find them) but thinking of going aspring champ, 3 gunners (maybe 2 plasma and a lascannon) plus as much cultist I can squeeze in

God I hope GW does DLC rules for the traitor legions

No clue where you are seeing this.

It says "The following special rule applies to all members of a Chaos Space Marine kill team, other than Chaos Cultists". Nowhere it's said Chaos Gunner, Chaos Space Marine specialist or similar and the Chaos Gunner entry doesn't mention Marks specifically either.

Sorry meant special operative, I just thought that since the operatives have the option in the wargear for a mark but gunner, adding champion and chaos marine didn't then it meant they couldn't take one

And to where to find the rules....scroll up lol.

I mean the actual rules needed to play as it's cool have rules for fielding a chaos team but I don't actually know how to play this game since the actual rules are only available in the nearly impossible to get boxet until it becomes digital

[Panzer]

Sucks the only way to give your guys a mark is only for the specialists I was so looking forward to a Nurgle warband .... well it'll still look like one just won't get any extra rules I'll have to try look at the rules (if I can find them) but thinking of going aspring champ, 3 gunners (maybe 2 plasma and a lascannon) plus as much cultist I can squeeze in

God I hope GW does DLC rules for the traitor legions

No clue where you are seeing this.

It says "The following special rule applies to all members of a Chaos Space Marine kill team, other than Chaos Cultists". Nowhere it's said Chaos Gunner, Chaos Space Marine specialist or similar and the Chaos Gunner entry doesn't mention Marks specifically either.

Sorry meant special operative, I just thought that since the operatives have the option in the wargear for a mark but gunner, adding champion and chaos marine didn't then it meant they couldn't take one

That's VERY unlikely. So unlikely that I'd say it's almost impossible. That's the factions special rule. It would make no sense to be accessible for only the Special Operatives + the paragraph above it would make no sense since there is no Chaos Cultist Special Operative in the first place (which would simply not have the option to take Marks then anyway).

No. When you take a new guy in your team that's no Chaos Cultist you choose a Mark for him and he'll have it till he dies. That's all there's to it. We don't even have to pay for it for once which makes me especially happy (crosses fingers for a future codex).

[WarriorFish]

I played around with the PDF and came up with a basic list to cover my forces:

Champ
- MoS
- Power sword
275pts

CSM x2
- MoT
- Boltgun
- Inferno Bolts
180pts

CSM x2
- MoS
- Bolt pistol
- Chainsword
170pts

That's 975pts, so enough for a bolt pistol on the Champ or for another upgrade. As mentioned until we know the rules we can't be sure how useful some of the other things may be but five Marines from my chosen forces sounds like a good baseline to work with for now

Including a special weapon of some kind might be a good alternative version, but I'm not sure how useful they'd be to start with. If people start pulling out the operative then you're probably going to want some heavier fire power in some cases!

[Panzer]

I played around with the PDF and came up with a basic list to cover my forces:

Champ

- MoS

- Power sword

275pts

CSM x2

- MoT

- Boltgun

- Inferno Bolts

180pts

CSM x2

- MoS

- Bolt pistol

- Chainsword

170pts

That's 975pts, so enough for a bolt pistol on the Champ or for another upgrade. As mentioned until we know the rules we can't be sure how useful some of the other things may be but five Marines from my chosen forces sounds like a good baseline to work with for now

Including a special weapon of some kind might be a good alternative version, but I'm not sure how useful they'd be to start with. If people start pulling out the operative then you're probably going to want some heavier fire power in some cases!

I recommend watching the MWG batrep. It's short and ended rather quick but I think it already gives a good feeling for how most things will play out.

I think the most interesting thing people will have to get used to is that one always has to shoot at the closest enemy as long as it isn't downed, making cannon fodder actually viable in that format.

[Slave to Darkness]

Sucks the only way to give your guys a mark is only for the specialists I was so looking forward to a Nurgle warband .... well it'll still look like one just won't get any extra rules I'll have to try look at the rules (if I can find them) but thinking of going aspring champ, 3 gunners (maybe 2 plasma and a lascannon) plus as much cultist I can squeeze in

God I hope GW does DLC rules for the traitor legions

No clue where you are seeing this.

It says "The following special rule applies to all members of a Chaos Space Marine kill team, other than Chaos Cultists". Nowhere it's said Chaos Gunner, Chaos Space Marine specialist or similar and the Chaos Gunner entry doesn't mention Marks specifically either.

Sorry meant special operative, I just thought that since the operatives have the option in the wargear for a mark but gunner, adding champion and chaos marine didn't then it meant they couldn't take one

And to where to find the rules....scroll up lol.

I mean the actual rules needed to play as it's cool have rules for fielding a chaos team but I don't actually know how to play this game since the actual rules are only available in the nearly impossible to get boxet until it becomes digital

Just read the necromunda rules.

[MaliGn]

If you get bottle checks from 25% casualties maybe only having five dudes will be an ultimately costly choice, sure a 3+ save is a good start but it seems there are plenty of modifiers to get that much worse. A couple of cultists to use as meat shields for each of three marines might work (nb i have read no e of the rules so don't know ow if that would work cost wise) especially if you can keep them between your cam and the enemy. By staying close you'll be able to keep driving them on rather than letting them get pinned so they shouldn't become too much of a burden.

[Kilofix]

I'm finding that being Pinned is a problem with few Marines.

 

I'm thinking of doing 1 Champion kitted for close combat, running up with 8 disposable Cultists, and then a Gunner with Camo / Photo Visor AC or HB in the back.

[Plaguecaster]

So loadouts for cultists is keeping them cheap and nasty with only a knife a good idea ?? Thinking of running a Nurgle Team with powerfist champion two plasma gunners (possibly with combat weapons too) and as much cultist i can squeeze in so just a knife would keep them cheap though having more guns is never a bad idea

[Kilofix]

I think giving them pistols is still a good idea, so that they have a chance to pin.

[the jeske]

Marines pined in a not-necromunda? what heresy is this. They were always immune to that. Also you do not want melee upgrades that are noisy on models that do not have some sort of long range weapon. If your dudes are runing around with just pistols, it is better to just give them a blade [doubt they will have access to shanks].

 

In games where there is XP, cultists could be ok. If such games or rules do not exist, you should avoid cultists like the plague, and take them only if there is realy nothing else to take and there are points left over. you know the same it was with juves.

 

You want 1-2 heavies in every warband as shoting>melee most of the time. If you want to take a specialist, then your csm should be range support, and more or less the whole gang has to be build to support them. In most cases the "special" dudes are not worth the points for most factions, unless they have some realy nice extra rules[exter territory to roll one , chance to find extra stuff, repair skills, chance to become a psyker etc].

[Kilofix]

Marines (with ATSKNF) in Shadow War always get to test against their Initiative to avoid being pinned (even without a friendly within 2") but if they fail that test they can be pinned.

 

They are however immune to Fear.

 

Edit - and Cultists always come with Combat Blades

[Panzer]

I think giving them pistols is still a good idea, so that they have a chance to pin.

Yeah I'd definitely give them a shooting weapon. You only need to hit to pin an enemy. You don't even have to wound or get through the armor. Sure hitting is a lot harder in Shadow Wars and you always risk to run out of ammo but pinning the enemy while you advance is gold. ;)

[Lord Abaia]

So one thing to consider about little add-on stuff like frag grenades, krak grenades, melta bombs, back-up pistols for guys with a basic weapon already is that you can buy it all with your rearm points after the mission.

 

Basically no matter if you won or lost you get 100 points that can be spent on either rearming or recruiting (no mix and match). If you spend one of your promethium caches you get another 100 points. There are also skills in the guerrilla tree (specialist and leader only for CSM) that gives you an additional 50 points if the fighter with that skill survived the mission. (So bottling out is sometimes beneficial)

 

You can start out with a team of CSM armed only with bolters and then give them all the little non-essential gear later quite easily. 100 points buys you 4 grenades, 5 red-dot sights, 100 sets of camo gear, 5 boltgun reloads, 4 bolt pistols or 4 sets of Inferno bolts for example.

 

Also a note on cultists. They will become troopers after surviving three missions and they can gain skills and trade weapons and equipment with other non-recruit cultists. The disclaimer just means that they will not level up into a power armored CSM, they will not be able to take a mark and they won't be able to take equipment from the CSM list. (Unlike the Eldar list where a guardian has to miss the next mission after becoming a trooper because he is being fitted for his aspect armor) Basically no matter how useful they are and how many skills they develop they will always be treated like trash by the CSM.

 

If you don't want any more gear for your CSM you can blow a promethium cache and show up to the next mission with 5 knife-wielding, meat-shield cultists and whichever ones prove themselves worthy get the privilege of resupply after the mission. Or get more expendable bodies we don't have a model cap in our rules.

 

The CSM list looks like it has the most versatility so far. As it should.

 

I have a copy of the reference rules and I did manage to pre-order a copy through my local GW (thanks to the manager's quick draw ordering) so I will be able to answer some questions now and any questions later when I get my book.