DA 8th Edition Info

[TheForgottenAngel]

So what's the word on company vets? Are they a viable option to run a 10man strong cc death machine? If not, what'd be a good option instead? LRC is beckoning to be used!

[Berzul]

So what's the word on company vets? Are they a viable option to run a 10man strong cc death machine? If not, what'd be a good option instead? LRC is beckoning to be used!

 

Veterans are now 2-5, so no on the 10 man squads.

 

But, in my opinion, they became a very good CC option! You can get 5 vets with storm shields and power swords for 125 points, which, considering current unit costs, is very little really. A 5 man squad dealing 2 attacks each (which, as well, is a good number, considering how many attacks were lost with the removal of the pistol+weapon combo rules) at S4, AP-3, D1, with 3+/3++ saves.

Make that 130 and give them axes for S5, AP-2, D1 attacks.

 

With a Rhino that brings it up to 195-200 points. Add a character and they will also make sure that said character survives 5 extra wounds!

 

I am already planning a 5 man squad of greenwing knights, armed with power swords and storm shields, to serve as retinue to a Company Master. I always wanted to put this together in 7th but it was just way to expensive to justify the build.

 

You can always go DW for your close combat, but I think that the key element here is cost. This unit has a good potential damage output, and has great invulnerables, for like, what? half the cost of a DWT squad?

Edited June 2, 2017 by Berzul

[Interrogator Stobz]

Great to see new edition bring new ideas.

 

Keep it up team :tu:

 

Unfortunately we might be in the minority.

[Crazy Jay]

Can someone explain pistols in melee to me? Can I...

 

A: shoot my pistol at an enemy unit engaged in combat with another unit?

 

B: shoot my pistol at an enemy unit my pistol unit is engaged in combat with?

 

C: shoot my pistol at an unengaged enemy unit while my pistol unit is engaged with another unit in combat?

[Knight Master Eladric]

Whoops my apologies shabba I misread that post. I still stand by the fact that plasma "gets hot" is all over the place. Lots of silliness with who takes damage and who just dies.

 

From what I've been able to tell Master-Crafted seems to be adding one extra damage beyond the standard profile for the weapon.

[Knight Master Eladric]

Pistols. During Shooting phase you can fire them even if you are in cc. If you are in CC you have to shoot them at the nearest unit and you can break the rule of "you can't shoot at enemies in cc with your own units". Otherwise you fire them with all the normal rules.

[Crazy Jay]

Cool thank you. I have a bunch of plasma pistol/chainsword assault marines that are going to see a lot of action this edition

[PariahMessiah]

So after reading and re-reading the rules and flyer entries, I see nothing that prevents the old template weapons from getting d6 automatic hits on flyers.

Dont get within range 

[Elios Harg]

 

So what's the word on company vets? Are they a viable option to run a 10man strong cc death machine? If not, what'd be a good option instead? LRC is beckoning to be used!

 

Veterans are now 2-5, so no on the 10 man squads.

 

But, in my opinion, they became a very good CC option! You can get 5 vets with storm shields and power swords for 125 points, which, considering current unit costs, is very little really. A 5 man squad dealing 2 attacks each (which, as well, is a good number, considering how many attacks were lost with the removal of the pistol+weapon combo rules) at S4, AP-3, D1, with 3+/3++ saves.

Make that 130 and give them axes for S5, AP-2, D1 attacks.

 

With a Rhino that brings it up to 195-200 points. Add a character and they will also make sure that said character survives 5 extra wounds!

 

I am already planning a 5 man squad of greenwing knights, armed with power swords and storm shields, to serve as retinue to a Company Master. I always wanted to put this together in 7th but it was just way to expensive to justify the build.

 

You can always go DW for your close combat, but I think that the key element here is cost. This unit has a good potential damage output, and has great invulnerables, for like, what? half the cost of a DWT squad?

 

Yeah, new style company veterans are pretty nice. I am considering 10 in a drop pod (yes, I know they are units of 5, but you can put 2 units in a pod) with combi-flamers and swords/axes. Or better, yet, do combi-plasma with one unit of 5 and one unit of 4 plus Azrael in a pod. Azrael gives re-rolls to both units and a 4++ save, and you get a crap ton of plasma firepower. They get to bodyguard Azrael to boot. If you really want to make it nasty, drop one more for two units of 4 and add Asmodai for extra attacks all around.

[Syphid]

So are Combat Shields worth it now, compare to Storm Shields?  1pt cheaper than Storm Shields, and you get to keep your sidearm.

[twopounder]

So are Combat Shields worth it now, compare to Storm Shields?  1pt cheaper than Storm Shields, and you get to keep your sidearm.

 

Doesn't feel like it. Still no +1 for 2 CCW and the advantages of a single pistol don't seem to outweigh a 3++. A model with a chainsword and storm shield will get more attacks than a model with a pistol and combat shield.

 

On the plus side, all my ravenwing bikes suddenly have chainswords.

[Crazy Jay]

So I finally got a chance to read the core rules and I saw an opportunity for something great. Under the "to hit" section of the shooting phase it says a roll of a 1 is always a failure regardless of modifiers. Under the "Overwatch" section it says you resolve Overwatch like a shooting attack except that a 6 is always needed for a successful hit. This leads me to believe that based on their wording, you can stack modifiers and make units unshootable. 2 Dark Shrouds + Aversion should make units effectively invincible to units with BS 4+ or worse. I imagine even if it works, it'd get FAQ/Erratta'd out pretty quick. Thoughts?

[Berzul]

 

 

So are Combat Shields worth it now, compare to Storm Shields? 1pt cheaper than Storm Shields, and you get to keep your sidearm.

Doesn't feel like it. Still no +1 for 2 CCW and the advantages of a single pistol don't seem to outweigh a 3++. A model with a chainsword and storm shield will get more attacks than a model with a pistol and combat shield.

 

On the plus side, all my ravenwing bikes suddenly have chainswords.

Are those 5 extra attacks (assuming a 5 mn squad of veterans with said chainswords) worth it, over power swords or power axes?

 

I mean, you save between 20 and 25 points by keeping the chainswords, and it gives 16 attacks over 11 with other weapons, but they are attacks with no AP.

 

My logic here is that melee geared veterans are clearly designed to aid a Character (Company Master or Chaplain, most likely, since they synergize well with close combat squads). With their razorback-adjusted squad size and ability to throw themselves in front of danger.

 

That being the case, should you be using a squad that is led by a Company Master or a Chaplain (or other Charcter) against an enemy that can be taken out by chainsword attacks? Shouldn't the squad be hunting bigger enemies?

 

And if thats the case, wouldn't you be better served with fewer but much better AP attacks?

 

I mean, Assault Marines with chainswords? Definetly! Those squads are clearly meant to go after light infantry. But veterans seems to me to go as a squad that would be underserved with just chainswords, despite the extra attack they bring.

[Pbenner]

After looking through all the stuff at my local store that they got in, I'm more and more confused.  

 

For Example, a Land Raider:

 

It comes stock with Two Twin Las Cannons and a Twin Heavy Bolter per it's listing.  Does the Base cost of the model cover these pieces of wargear, or do I have to tack that cost in?  There is an additional almost 50% of the model if you've got to calculate them in and they're like, 100 points more expensive than previous editions on a base kit, so curious on thoughts there.  

 

Looks like Tuesday we might try to get a game of 8th edition under out belts, so we'll see what happens.  

[Elios Harg]

After looking through all the stuff at my local store that they got in, I'm more and more confused.  

 

For Example, a Land Raider:

 

It comes stock with Two Twin Las Cannons and a Twin Heavy Bolter per it's listing.  Does the Base cost of the model cover these pieces of wargear, or do I have to tack that cost in?  There is an additional almost 50% of the model if you've got to calculate them in and they're like, 100 points more expensive than previous editions on a base kit, so curious on thoughts there.  

 

Looks like Tuesday we might try to get a game of 8th edition under out belts, so we'll see what happens.  

Any units under the "Does not include wargear sections" pay for EVERYTHING with which they are equipped even if it is default. Some items are 0 cost for this reason. Any units under "includes wargear" already pays for their wargear, obviously.

[jbaeza94]

i think the reason to keep the chainsword on vets would be to get a pistol. for example a plasma pistol

3 s- ap- attacks plus a s7 ap-3 shot vs 2 s- ap-3 and a s4 ap- shot. note that you could risk it a go super charged, for s8 ap-3 d2.  

 

i dont think its the same for the vet sgt though, his 3 attacks would be better used on a power weapon, as opposed to the pistol and chainsword.

 

 

also, pbenner, as i understand it, for a lr it would be like you said, about 115 extra.

lrc, it would be lrc+ 2 hurricane bolter+twin assault cannon for about 44 extra.

 

vehicles as a whole seem to have gotten pricier, but their capabilities as a whole are much better. 

[shabbadoo]

There seems to be no reason or logic to what gets what.

That doesn't mean it isn't there. Not saying I agree with (all of) it either, but I understand it. That being said, things may be changed in the actual codexes later on.

 

GW has actually done something really brilliant here. Maybe they did it on purpose, and maybe not, but the end result will be that thousands upon thousands of people are going to put in a lot of time playing with these starter rules. The key point here is, if GW continues on their current course of not ignoring us completely, they are going to not only want feedback on how things are going, but take that feedback into account going forward in the writing of the eventual codexes.  Changes could end up being made.  I'd like to see that happen with plasma, such that players would not only ever supercharge it if the model was doomed anyways. That just does not make for good game play. Overcharging plasma weapons should be dangerous, but not automatically lethal to multi-wound models.

Edited June 3, 2017 by shabbadoo

[twopounder]

So... 

 

Page 175 of the rule book says "All modifiers are cumulative". Only Strength, Toughness, and Leadership can never be below 1, anything else technically can.

 

Dark Shrouds are -1 to hit...

 

4 Dark Shrouds would make a BS 3+ unit incapable of hitting anything in their 6" bubble.

 

I'm thinking nobody actually bothered to play test his.

[Dark_Master]

4 Dark Shrouds would make a BS 3+ unit incapable of hitting anything in their 6" bubble.

 

I'm thinking nobody actually bothered to play test his.

I think you would struggle to get anything significant covered by 4 at the same time ;-)

 

DM

[Interrogator Stobz]

I'm glad nobody playtested that. It is an abomination.

 

:D

[shabbadoo]

Indeed, but apparently the Darkshroud is in the eye of the darkness storm, as the Icon of Old Caliban rule does NOT include a -1 penalty to shoot at the Darkshroud itself.  Gotta fix that obviously.

Edited June 3, 2017 by shabbadoo

[Knight Master Eladric]

"unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect"

 

Under Aura Abilities, side note on one of the shooting pages.

[durdle-durdle]

So here's my idea for my primaris chapter. I haven't entirely decided on who the primogenitor chapter will be, but I'm leaning dark angels. My fluff is this: after the ultima founding, chapter x (screaming eagles or knights errant, idk yet) find themselves somewhat shut out by the dark angels. Not knowing about the fallen yet (because the dark angels didn't tell them until they felt they could be trusted), chapter x fights in ever more heroic style, occasionally abandoning positions and missions in favor of trying to earn glory to impress Senpai- I mean the dark angels. This display of vanity causes them to be further mistrusted by the dark angels leading them to believe they need to fight harder and "more gloriously" to try and earn senpai's favor not knowing they continually push the dark angels away by doing so.

[Berzul]

I don't know about the primaris.... im so far invested in painting my successor chapter with regular marines, the idea of starting from scratch is a bit too much. I think I'm going to stay away from the primaris marines for the time being.

[durdle-durdle]

I don't know about the primaris.... im so far invested in painting my successor chapter with regular marines, the idea of starting from scratch is a bit too much. I think I'm going to stay away from the primaris marines for the time being.

Understandable. That's why I want to start them as their own chapter, separate from my blood angels. (And I don't really think they add much to my blood angels I don't already have...)