DA 8th Edition Info

[Berzul]

 

 

Honestly, drop n' spray deathwing seems pretty not bad. Were it not for the requirement to have half your stuff on the table at the start, I'd be all about dusting off my old deathwing army. Shoot middle launchers at vehicles, storm bolters at infantry, and charge a third squad? Seems great.

Well, on the plus side, we're no longer beholden to teleporting in just to get our special rules.

 

So you can run some ground based dreads (TLLC+ML is pretty good for putting some damage on tanks from a distance, stick it in cover and it can be hard to shift), and maybe drop a DW Ancient, an Interrogator-Chaplain, and a squad of Knights in an LRC (maybe even invite a DW Champion for some more oomph). With those mini-heroes counting as units, you'd be surprised at how few models you need on the ground to give you a good amount in the sky.

 

That should give you leeway for Belial and a swack of shooty Deathwing to teleport in and crumple the enemy line (and maybe even get a charge off).

That sounds like a VERY efficient use of rules, right there.

 

You'd be able to drop down a LOT of DW in a list like that. Its a good side of having champions, apothecaries and ancients as Units in an of themselves. 3 guys on the table already opens up room for 15-30 terminators to drop down.

 

I like it.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Berzul

[Knight Master Eladric]

Yea the reroll to hit bubble is crazy, and now you gotta figure out where to put your primaris lieutenant. He gives a reroll 1 to wound bubble too!

[shabbadoo]

Ravenwing Knights can Advance and still fire, so 5++ Jink and hitting on 4's (with re-rolls to hit if Sammael is nearby).  Better than Jinking and not being able to shoot at all. There is some give and take, but overall it is in the way of simplification and not aimed at overly screwing anyone.

 

I think we may see tweaks to things, but it is not a bad list for "just getting started" right out of the gate with the new edition. We'll have a better idea of what to expect once we see the first true update to one of the army lists.

Edited June 4, 2017 by shabbadoo

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

The real question to me is what did change?

Where were the Primaris DA slotted in, the reserve Companies?

Well, the example DA-Primaris I have seen had a 5th Company kneepad. So I'd assume anywhere they'd fit, except DW / RW.

[Kein]

 

Hi all

 

no more TH\SS + CML option, only CML + SB\PF?

 

Nope, still possible.

 

The entry for the CML is now "Cyclone missile launcher and storm bolter".

 

So you grab the CML, it comes with a SB, you replace your SB and fist with a TH/SS or claws.

 

 

there is a little issue with bad wording ))

you replace _all_ weapons with twin LC or TH\SS (so, all means cml to  :( )

and

you can _take_ heavy weapon (not replacing something), for every 5 models, without replacing anything, so little crazy CML termie with fist, cml and couple of storm bolters :D

 

yeap, little problem with RAW lovers in my place... :)

[Master Sheol]

It's Always the same issue with DWT loadout due to the poor wording of DA rules

For example in the Deathwatch rules there is clearly written that you can swap your SB and PF/PS with THSS or 2LC

The wording should be the same for DW Too

 

They do the same mistake and FAQ it every now and then

 

"We playtested the new edition with tournament players"

What a joke! :D

[Almagor]

In the 8th edition core rulebook it says: " If a model has several weapons, it can shoot all of them at the same target, or it can shoot each at a different enemy unit".

 

Does this mean that if my tactical marine is within say 6" from an enemy unit it can fire 2 boltgun shots AND a bolt pistol shot at it?

 

And if that is the case, then a thecmarine on bike with a servo harness can fire:

 

1. twin boltgun (attached to bike)

2. pistol/combi weapon (in hand)

3. plasma cutter (on servo harness)

4. flamer (on servo harness)

 

at the same target or 4 different targets of my choosing???

[aekold]

A model can fire all its wapens with 2 exceptions:

1. you fire all your other weapons or a pistol

2. you throw a grenade instead of firing any other weapons.

[shabbadoo]

"We playtested the new edition with tournament players"

What a joke!

Don't lay anything at the feet of the playtesters. I will assume the playtesters were more focused on the actual playing of things (i.e. does this mechanic work or not, etc.) and not the editing of things, and that it is very likely that every one of the playtesters didn't playtest every single similar thing so as to notice anything that might be different from one entry to the next. We also don't know what version (s) of the text the playtesters got, and whether or not that text was altered over time. Maybe they never even saw what is the final version of the text until now, which is when we have seen it. Whatever the case may be, any editing mistakes are not on the playtesters, but on GW. GW has been taking great pains to unilaterally use the same language for the same things though, but this one thing (maybe there are others) slipped through. If we can count the mistakes on one hand for what has been done, which constitutes stat blocks for every unit in every army, such that only those things would need errata, that would be better than GW has ever done before. As long as GW is striving to improve, which they have been, it's a good thing.

Edited June 2, 2017 by shabbadoo

[Knight Master Eladric]

Shabba makes some good points but I wouldn't exactly say they've been taking "great pains" to use the same language. Plasma is the real culprit here and is all over the place. You might argue that it's intentional, but it's a little fishy that Kharne only takes a single mortal wound per "gets hot", while Azrael and even a whole HQ land raider are outright slain by on of their own. Edited June 2, 2017 by Knight Master Eladric

[shabbadoo]

Not really. Khârn has no choice but to overcharge, so it would sorta suck to have him fire off his first shot...and die...before he can even charge. Sure, he doesn't have to fire his pistol, but then why even have it. Otherwise plasma is not "all over the place."  Given that, I do wish the plasma overcharge rule would have been scaled a bit, as follows:

 

Plasma pistol/plasma gun/plasma talon: if any rolls of a 1 come up when these weapons are fired, the firing model suffers 1 mortal wound after firing is resolved.

 

Plasma cannon: if any rolls of a 1 come up when this weapon is fired, the model suffers d3 mortal wounds after firing is resolved.

 

Plasma annihilator/plasma storm battery: if any rolls of a 1 come up when these weapons are fired, the model suffers 3 mortal wounds after firing is resolved.

 

The outright "slain" bit needs to go.

 

Also, I haven't seen it yet, but what does "master-crafted" now do, if anything different?

 

(These old eyes will be much happier when they can look stuff up in an actual book held up before them.)

Edited June 2, 2017 by shabbadoo

[Conine]

A model can fire all its wapens with 2 exceptions:

1. you fire all your other weapons or a pistol

2. you throw a grenade instead of firing any other weapons.

If you are looking for those rules they are actually under the weapon type rules themselves. Which is on the page following the shooting phase rules.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Conine

[ChaosPhoenix]

I am really happy with the rules. But for those who are not GW said on Facebook that those rules are only to get us playing. There will be more complex in-depth army rules in the codecies.

[Conine]

I put together a 1k list of DW (probably going to be my starter list to learn the rules and what not) and you can get Belial, 3 DV squads (though probably would take a PC or two they cost the same) and either a Razorback with a twin lascannon (which looks beast now and provides AT support for the DW) or a DV 3 man Ravenwing bike squad.

 

You can take the razorback since the rule changed to per unit or every other unit (still hazy on that one) allows you to purchase a transport. No mention of units actually having to fit in the transport, and they don't have to deploy inside them.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Conine

[Brother Captain Arkley]

Very nice in green :)

[Berzul]

On discussing the new rules and how they will affect gameplay and army composition: Anyone has any opinions on Devastators?

I feel this unit in particular suffered a lot of indirect changes.

1) You can no longer pack 2 heavy weapons (like grav cannons) inside a Rhino, to create a shielded firing platform;
2) But, at the same time, positioning is no longer an issue since you can take wounds to the unit directly on any extra marines you bring, sparing your heavy weapons up to the last minute;
3) And since moving and firing are no longer excluding each other, te squad itself no longer needs to be stationary and should be less stressful to position on deployment;
4) Finally, all around split firing also means you are no longer forced to take the whole squad with the same heavy weapons.

So, devs would most likely best be played on foot, or drop pods, as a marching squad, and could very well be used as a "swiss army knife" squad of heavy support, bringing, for instance, a lascannon, a plasma cannon, a heavy bolter and a grav cannon, and firing each turn at 4 different targets, in accordance to the weapons and targets at hand; all the while not having to worry about careful positioning, when taking extra marines for additional wounds.

Seems like an interesting change of pace, for the squad.

 

[EDITED for typ-os]

Edited June 2, 2017 by Berzul

[marti350]

Guess that means the tech priests finally got ahold of the Dark Angels heavy grav-plate technology they'd been begging for

[Elios Harg]

 

 

I've been reading back, and in other parts of the forum, but I can't find a definitive or clear answer to this. I'm sure there is, but I can't find it, so I ask this here. I hope it's not redundant.

 

In matched play, is the basic equipment indicated in the dataslate, considered as part of the cost for the unit?

 

I see boltguns and chainswords listed at 0 cost, which leads me to believe that the models are bought naked and unarmed, and you have to pay for each item of gear that they are supposed to come with.

 

Is this the correct interpretation?

You have to pay for every piece of wargear, even the default items. That is why some stuff is listed at 0

 

 

Exept for special character (as point cost are mentionned "including wargear").

 

Nobody for my question about Nephilim ? 

 

Well, there is nothing in the hard to hit rule that exempts other flyers (Stormhawks and Stormtalons actually get an interceptor rule which allows them +1 vs. fly models). Then there is the fact that all of the Nephilim's weapons are heavy. So a Nephilim attacking another hard to hit flyer will be at BS 5+.

 

On a similar note, Deathwing no longer has relentless or anything equivalent. In fact, very little in the game is. Thus, all heavy weapons (except heavy flamers, of course) are -1 to hit on the move for our terminators (and attack bikes, Sammael, vehicles other than land raiders, etc.).

[Knight Master Eladric]

Sorry shabba but that is just misinformation. Plasma guns, cannons pistols combis all outright slay their bearer on any one whether they are a sgt, veteran, chapter master or even a 20 wound land raider. There are however a few exceptions including kharne and the LS vengeance (among others) who take 1, d3, or 3 damage instead. There seems to be no reason or logic to what gets what.

[ShadowCore67]

Was hoping jink was going to be a -1 to hit against shooting, but oh well. I guess our ravenwing jink shenanigans needed nerfed. Only up side is we don't snapshot anymore.

 

I'm hoping our actual dex includes some synergy between Ravenwing and Death wing units because right now the lack of synergy is really disappointing.

Edited June 2, 2017 by ShadowCore67

[Master Avoghai]

I've made a quick list to play against a friend tomorrow (he'll play sista)

 

Here's the list the first numbr is the V7 cost the second is the v8:

 

Company Master with rlic blade and combi flamer (125). 106

 

Tactical squad (5) combi flamer and flamer in a RZB with TLHB (140) 167

 

Tactical squad (10) with combi melta, melta and multi melta in a rhino (205) 263

 

Scouts squad (5) with sniper rifle and camocloak (70) 90

 

Dreadnought with assault cannon and HF (120) 148

 

Assault squad (5) with 2PP sgt with power sword (130) 98

 

Devastator squad with 2 lazcan (115) 115

 

DW terminator squad with (225) 239

1 AC +CF

1 MT/SS

1 pair of LC

 

RW bike squad with 2 flamer sgt with combi melta (120) 165

 

RW LS Tornado HB/AC (70) 114

 

Global v7 cost 1315pts

V8 Cost : 1500

 

We'll see that's a huge raise in points comparing the 2 systems. Most of this increase comes from the vehicle inscrease of points (60% for the LS :wacko: )

 

However I think that this list, which is typical of a DA force, would not have given any good result in v7. In v8 most of the rules evolutions will make this list more usable and flexible.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Sorry shabba but that is just misinformation. Plasma guns, cannons pistols combis all outright slay their bearer on any one whether they are a sgt, veteran, chapter master or even a 20 wound land raider. There are however a few exceptions including kharne and the LS vengeance (among others) who take 1, d3, or 3 damage instead. There seems to be no reason or logic to what gets what.

According to the Livestream right now, the Helbrute Plasma Cannon also only causes 1 mortal wound when it overloads.

We'll see. After all, the rules are said to be more easily adjustable now.

[Elios Harg]

Sorry shabba but that is just misinformation. Plasma guns, cannons pistols combis all outright slay their bearer on any one whether they are a sgt, veteran, chapter master or even a 20 wound land raider. There are however a few exceptions including kharne and the LS vengeance (among others) who take 1, d3, or 3 damage instead. There seems to be no reason or logic to what gets what.

It was not misinformation. Shabba was pointing out how he would do plasma rather than how it is. As an aside, Executioner Plasma Cannons and Heavy Plasma Cannons (for dreadnoughts and, likely, hellbrutes) seem to be the only kind that do not explode when overheating. Even the plasma venting on Russes do not prevent the explosion of the cannons, just potentially keep the Russ from dying.

 

@Shabba: There is no "master-crafted" as it used to exist. There appear to be specifically master-crafted items such as boltguns and power swords. These have better than normal rules i.e. more AP or damage than typical. Azrael's combi-weapon, Lion's Wrath, is now a combination master-crafted boltgun (as boltgun, except -1 AP and 2 D) and a normal plasma gun.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Elios Harg

[Bryan Blaire]

As said, "Master-crafted" weapons now have somewhat unique stat blocks for them, rather than just all "Master-crafted items do x function".

[twopounder]

So after reading and re-reading the rules and flyer entries, I see nothing that prevents the old template weapons from getting d6 automatic hits on flyers.