DA 8th Edition Info

[FlamingDeth]

I mostly ignored it. No interest in stormcast in spaaaaaace, which is what they look to be.

[dtse]

It might just be new space marine models like we have seen leaked.

[Saphrael]

If you watch the video it's fairly obvious the Numarines will have different rules, which makes sense from a sales perspective.

 

I haven't liked any new lore that the studio has put out for some time (but that's cool, I just ignore it and play my hobby), but I'm concerned these Numarines will be based around Bobby G's geneseed, which feels gross and insulting for other chapters. Doubly bad for DA since our geneseed is just as pure as the Smurfs.

[ValourousHeart]

Has anyone checked out the latest update for 8th edition?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/01/new-warhammer-40000-charge-phasegw-homepage-post-4/

 

Specifically this part...

 

 

Overwatch can also be fired multiple times per phase, but as soon as the unit is engaged, they will no longer be able to fire back.

 

I think our RWSS Ravenshield rule just got a lot more powerful.

[Solrac]

Has anyone checked out the latest update for 8th edition?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/01/new-warhammer-40000-charge-phasegw-homepage-post-4/

 

Specifically this part...

 

 

Overwatch can also be fired multiple times per phase, but as soon as the unit is engaged, they will no longer be able to fire back.

 

I think our RWSS Ravenshield rule just got a lot more powerful.

Assuming it remains.

 

Also note we will be paying points to take formations like in AoS

[Saphrael]

Assuming it remains.

This. With the advent of simplified rules (even if the complexity is being pushed to units), we better be prepared to lose most of the benefits we're currently getting from formations and detachments. While it's possible to get excited about the new rules--indeed I am!--I don't think we can speculate too much on how individual units will perform because we've had no indication on how much their special rules will change. Other than to assume they will have less rules and that the mechanics for the rules will be simpler.

[Solrac]

 

Assuming it remains.

This. With the advent of simplified rules (even if the complexity is being pushed to units), we better be prepared to lose most of the benefits we're currently getting from formations and detachments. While it's possible to get excited about the new rules--indeed I am!--I don't think we can speculate too much on how individual units will perform because we've had no indication on how much their special rules will change. Other than to assume they will have less rules and that the mechanics for the rules will be simpler.

 

 

100% Agree.

 

And to add to what Saphrael has said we need remember that the 40k rulebook will be culled down to 12 pages (this has been confirmed already in one of the rules previews). This will most likely mean that a lot of the universal special rules will also be culled or turfed completely. If units have special rules it will be contained on the unit sheet itself.

[Harleqvin]

I'm actually wondering if the bulk of the rules will be the USRs. Likely weapons stuff. what does "Rapid Fire#" mean?
I mean the basic rules are pretty close to AoS, and those are only 4 pages long. So roughly 8 pages of additional info, but more likely about 6/7 being not relegated to phases info (there will still be perils and such.

I wonder what formations we will have and if any of the previous ones will get transferred over. as stated above the one Rw formation will be awesome if it remains and is mostly unchanged ruleswise.

[Saphrael]

As for USRs, I suspect the closest we'll get is consistency of naming convention for rules across unit sheets. So if Unit A has "Rage" and that means +2A on the charge, when Unit B also has "Rage" it'll mean +2A on the charge for that unit too. Going one step further there may not be another rule for +2A  on the charge called something else, "Awesome Charge" for example. That's the kind of consistency of USRs I'm expecting.

 

As stated earlier, I don't expect formations/detachments to exist in any form that's recognisable to how we see them now. They are a significant driver of complexity and imbalance in 7th and I'd wager one of the key things GW is seeking to address. I think we're more likely to see unique FOCs (similar to formations, admittedly) maybe with some inherent rules/upgrades available for purchase, as well as some unique Command Point benefits available per faction. It's pretty hard to draw solid conclusions and reliable speculation from what we've seen so far though.

[ValourousHeart]

Well with as much shake up as AoS had, one thing stayed consistent, GW starts with the narrative and then drafts rules.

 

So this means that Orks no matter what rules set will always have a narrative where they are brutes that like to brawl, and charge into battle with a might waaagg!!

If we stick to that narrative then we'll have a pretty good idea how the units will behave under the new rules.

 

So while I don't expect all bikes to retain jink... since all bikes currently have jink there is little reason to identify it, they might as well just incorporate it into the basic bike profile.

But I see RW Bikes keeping teleport homers and scout, as that is something unique they have that other bikes tend not to have, and it is a big part of their narrative with the DW.

I also see the RWSS keeping Ravenshield as the narrative for the unit is to provide cover fire so that the bikes can get were they need to so that the DW can teleport in.

[SnakeChisler]

The whole formation thing initially has to go while its nice and seems fluffy its gotten out of hand

 

I play against a Tau player on a regular basis and the shot count is crazy & nearly all of it ignoring cover or shooting you in rear armour + intercepting if you dare to come on via your formation with the Ignores cover & TL now working in interceptor games are getting pretty stagnant.

The way round that is Psychic but that just turns it over the other way, running Veil of Time or the new ignores cover one just completely changes the game the other way.

 

The whole process is a re-balance everything with wounds, which makes me wonder what Sammael on a speeder is going to look like?

[JR-Jack]

The whole formation thing initially has to go while its nice and seems fluffy its gotten out of hand

I'm kind of hoping that they keep formations or a similar device but that the fluffiness is rewarded purely with these new command points - not free stuff and special rules. I think that would level the playing field a bit.

 

Having had my Lion's Blade taken apart by the Tau in a game at the weekend, I certainly feel your pain. I'll happily sacrifice my free transports to take the edge off that torrent of weaponry!

[Conine]

The whole formation thing initially has to go while its nice and seems fluffy its gotten out of hand

 

I play against a Tau player on a regular basis and the shot count is crazy & nearly all of it ignoring cover or shooting you in rear armour + intercepting if you dare to come on via your formation with the Ignores cover & TL now working in interceptor games are getting pretty stagnant.

The way round that is Psychic but that just turns it over the other way, running Veil of Time or the new ignores cover one just completely changes the game the other way.

 

The whole process is a re-balance everything with wounds, which makes me wonder what Sammael on a speeder is going to look like?

 

As a new player who tried to get into 40k during 6th and gave up in 7th, I am hopeful that 8th will bring more balance and allow for those just starting to better grasp of all the rules, their opponents and unlike me not get stomped to death by a superheavy in their second game with no chance of countering it. I am looking forward to giving it a go once more. 

[sneakybamsen]

 

The whole formation thing initially has to go while its nice and seems fluffy its gotten out of hand

 

I play against a Tau player on a regular basis and the shot count is crazy & nearly all of it ignoring cover or shooting you in rear armour + intercepting if you dare to come on via your formation with the Ignores cover & TL now working in interceptor games are getting pretty stagnant.

The way round that is Psychic but that just turns it over the other way, running Veil of Time or the new ignores cover one just completely changes the game the other way.

 

The whole process is a re-balance everything with wounds, which makes me wonder what Sammael on a speeder is going to look like?

 

As a new player who tried to get into 40k during 6th and gave up in 7th, I am hopeful that 8th will bring more balance and allow for those just starting to better grasp of all the rules, their opponents and unlike me not get stomped to death by a superheavy in their second game with no chance of countering it. I am looking forward to giving it a go once more. 

 

 

That guy you played obviously wasn't too intent on giving you a nice second game :)

 

Was he by any chance an eldar player? ;)

 

Joke aside - 8th edition should, if they do what they say they'll do, be the right time to start.

[Loar]

I just can't wait for 8th so I don't have to listen to tactics about using Riptide Wing/s in people's "Dark Angels" army....I hope.

 

My guess is there won't be any of DA specific formations until down the line when we get a proper update via armybook/campaign/supplement or whatever form it may take. 

 

We will probably be using just the default FOC's in the core rules for awhile, but my guess is this will still allow us to take themed armies like all/mostly Ravenwing or Deathwing (a fast attack or elite based FOC for example).  Overall everything I'm seeing has me very excited for a return to better balance and fluffier armies that can still be fun and competitive on the tabletop :)

Edited May 2, 2017 by Loar

[Conine]

 

 

The whole formation thing initially has to go while its nice and seems fluffy its gotten out of hand

 

I play against a Tau player on a regular basis and the shot count is crazy & nearly all of it ignoring cover or shooting you in rear armour + intercepting if you dare to come on via your formation with the Ignores cover & TL now working in interceptor games are getting pretty stagnant.

The way round that is Psychic but that just turns it over the other way, running Veil of Time or the new ignores cover one just completely changes the game the other way.

 

The whole process is a re-balance everything with wounds, which makes me wonder what Sammael on a speeder is going to look like?

 

As a new player who tried to get into 40k during 6th and gave up in 7th, I am hopeful that 8th will bring more balance and allow for those just starting to better grasp of all the rules, their opponents and unlike me not get stomped to death by a superheavy in their second game with no chance of countering it. I am looking forward to giving it a go once more. 

 

 

That guy you played obviously wasn't too intent on giving you a nice second game

 

Was he by any chance an eldar player?

 

Joke aside - 8th edition should, if they do what they say they'll do, be the right time to start.

 

Actually it was an Ork player. He probably got wiped off the board by someone else a few too many times and with 6th/7th letting you bring anything basically went out and found a solution. 

 

I am very excited for 8th. Already got my DAs back out and working on finishing up some that I never got around too. 

[SnakeChisler]

The intention seems to be that your formation type stuff will come through from doing narrative play

 

(That will be the version where you talk to your opponent and negotiate how you will run your game)

 

There is absolutely no reason why organisers can't run narrative events rather than this over focus on competition style.

[Ezzeran]

Just getting caught up on the updates.

 

Not sure how I feel about morale. Simply losing models as a result of a check is a big hit to terminators. Granted we don't know what changes, if any, a Deathwing profile will make to morale, but taken at face value, feels bad man.

 

I like what I am seeing from the fight phase. Determining factors will be how Charging out of vehicles or (potentially) deep strike work. I'm excited about a return to land raiders. Also I'm really curious about how these weapons will work. They mention how some of these weapons will strike out of the usual order. I'm hoping that doesn't mean we will still have powerfists and hammers striking last.

 

Ezz

[FlamingDeth]

Alternatively if Deathwing keep fearless that would be a comparatively big buff vs codex terminators. Who knows.

[breng77]

Remember terminators have multiple wounds now, and morale works off models lost.  They are also relatively decent LD of 8.  So you would need to take 6 wounds against a 2+ save (3 models) and roll a 6 on your test to lose a single model.  If most squads stay at 5 strong, Morale will not really hurt them much if you lose 4 models, you have a  1/3 chance to lose the last model.  Now if you run a 10 man squad, it is a bit worse (assuming no LD buffs etc), but you would still not be looking at that much of a problem unless your unit is already being decimated.

[Isiah]

For those of you (like me) not up to soeed on rumoured morale:

 

"The mechanics are simple – any units that suffered casualties in a turn must take a Morale test at the end of it. You just roll a D6, add the number of models from the unit that have been slain, and if the number is bigger than the unit’s Leadership, the unit loses the difference in additional models."

[Isiah]

I'm also thinking that Fearless - should it still be a thing - might modify the Deathwing's morale.

 

The way I figure it with the info we have thus far: assuming a 5-man termy unit each man with two wounds, better saves and Ld value, they are potentially slightly more resilient to unit losses morale than a bog-standard Space Marine unit. Correct?

 

Cheers

I

[Ezzeran]

Good points, brothers. I did not factor in the fact of the additional wound per model.

 

Dark Angels are also well renown for standing their ground, with the Stubborn trait being a DA staple. With the previous edition rules and lore hopefully swaying the future, I do think we will see a morale phase bonus of some sort.

 

Ezz

[sneakybamsen]

With the latest rumours (remember salting them just like french fries or popcorn), it would seem that gravastators in rhinos / grav cannon on tacs in rhinos will no longer be the go-to tool. Though, with no more double demi shenanigans, I guess that alone means a lot of competitive players at least won't be fielding devastators anyhow, depending of course on FOCs and so on. The likely changes to grav will just further that.

 

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/05/40k-rumors-8th-ed-latest-batch.html

 

 

– No more firing from a transport, though some vehicles, especially open topped ones have extra firing points weapons if they transport enough (and sometimes eligible) models. But they use their own BS and the kind of weapon is fixed. For example Raiders have 5 fire point splinter rifles, but only if they transport kabalite warriors

 

Just a bit of my take on what it'll be like, with the info/rumours we have at the moment.

[SnakeChisler]

I read the article and a lot made sense in the light of what we have been told by GW

 

The transport one is a bit more fundamental, the rumour said things that are open topped would get a specific licence to fire certain types of guns out of them and I'd have thought with open topped not being a thing anymore then the certain gun can only fire out of vehicles would be a thing across the board rather than a blanket ban.

 

The Characters no longer being allowed in squads interested me its quite a fundamental change so no character tanking & praise be to the Emperor challenges look like they've gone the way of the dodo, I remember in 6th the sheer stupidity of it all as a Daemon prince took on a character while everyone else stood their looking like a turkey.