8th Edition & BA

[Panzer]

Multiple Overwatch sounds too strong...in terms of 7th edition. Keep in mind that there's barely a weapon that ignores a Marines armor in 8th and if you actually make the charge he still can't shoot Overwatch after that anymore.

The one faction that really benefits from it would be Tau and only if Surpressing Fire doesn't get changed.

I don't know how it's for you, but for me Overwatch rarely did something worth mentioning apart from maybe a handful of times.

[Helias_Tancred]

Big shame they kept random charges in. Multiple overwatch is overly punishing I feel. Will have to see in practise.

 

That 1" buff would have meant I made two game winning charges this weekend though so...!

 

Agreed. I'm skeptical whether it stays once 8th edition goes live?

[Indefragable]

14" as you only need to get within 1", not base to base. Also haven't seen how "advance" interacts with charging.

 

If we can move 6+D6", then have a 2d6 charge, amazing. Even more so if we always get the charge movement.

 

I think everyone was a bit disappointed at seeing random Charge distances. However, as you point out, if we get to Move 6" (or more w/ Jump Pack/et al.) + D6" + the models move the distance you roll for Charge, whether or not it connects, that's something that could have some value. On one hand, it forces the enemy to gunline to have to back up (and get -1 To Hit?) in his Turn to try to break away. On the other hand, failing a Charge against another choppy unit is going to be a death sentence. But on principal that is not terrible since there should be some "float like a butterfly" footwork to combat.

 

 

 It's just the extra inch that's different.

 

 

 

 

Multiple Overwatch sounds too strong...in terms of 7th edition. Keep in mind that there's barely a weapon that ignores a Marines armor in 8th and if you actually make the charge he still can't shoot Overwatch after that anymore.

The one faction that really benefits from it would be Tau and only if Surpressing Fire doesn't get changed.

I don't know how it's for you, but for me Overwatch rarely did something worth mentioning apart from maybe a handful of times.

 

I regularly face Ravenwing Black Knights. Full Overwatch TL plasma talons are no joke to BA (especially when they are a on a platform that moves 12", ignores terrain, has a 3+ re-rollable Jink, Rending hammers, and Hit and Run).

[Panzer]

 

14" as you only need to get within 1", not base to base. Also haven't seen how "advance" interacts with charging.

 

If we can move 6+D6", then have a 2d6 charge, amazing. Even more so if we always get the charge movement.

 

I think everyone was a bit disappointed at seeing random Charge distances. However, as you point out, if we get to Move 6" (or more w/ Jump Pack/et al.) + D6" + the models move the distance you roll for Charge, whether or not it connects, that's something that could have some value. On one hand, it forces the enemy to gunline to have to back up (and get -1 To Hit?) in his Turn to try to break away. On the other hand, failing a Charge against another choppy unit is going to be a death sentence. But on principal that is not terrible since there should be some "float like a butterfly" footwork to combat.

 

 

 It's just the extra inch that's different.

 

 

 

 

Multiple Overwatch sounds too strong...in terms of 7th edition. Keep in mind that there's barely a weapon that ignores a Marines armor in 8th and if you actually make the charge he still can't shoot Overwatch after that anymore.

The one faction that really benefits from it would be Tau and only if Surpressing Fire doesn't get changed.

I don't know how it's for you, but for me Overwatch rarely did something worth mentioning apart from maybe a handful of times.

 

I regularly face Ravenwing Black Knights. Full Overwatch TL plasma talons are no joke to BA (especially when they are a on a platform that moves 12", ignores terrain, has a 3+ re-rollable Jink, Rending hammers, and Hit and Run).

 

Full BS Overwatch is obviously a huge exception from the norm lol

[Phiasco]

Well, excitement smothered. Close combat is still the red headed stepchild. Get shot at 12-14 times before making it in to close combat, then they get to leave as soon as they want to so you can shot some more. ~sigh~

[Blindhamster]

I suspect that leaving combat will have a drawback not described yet. Probably a free round of attacks from those you're leaving behind (be it shooting or melee), or the ones you're fleeing will be able to try and follow you.

 

Multiple overwatch from defenders is a thing already. If you multi charge, both defenders get to overwatch you. That's exactly as it is now. The only time this seems any different is for when you fail a charge as they can overwatch your first unit and if you declare another charge with a different unit, they can overwatch that one too, but they couldn't if you successfully got into melee with them. So yes, this is only a big deal vs tau, who would be brutal if they keep supporting fire.

[Panzer]

Well, excitement smothered. Close combat is still the red headed stepchild. Get shot at 12-14 times before making it in to close combat, then they get to leave as soon as they want to so you can shot some more. ~sigh~

Just lol.

Not even Lascannons ignore PA completey anymore so most other weapons will leave us with a decent save and transports don't just blow up turn 1 anymore (and there is the rumour of being able to disembark+assault in the same turn).

Even if the enemy falls back in his turn again, that one unit will be useless for a whole turn then and unless he shoots with Lascannons (and maybe Plasma etc.) any Marine will have at least a 5+ save (possibly better with cover) so they won't get shot to bits at all.

 

I really don't get the "sky is falling" mentality. If anything from what we've seen so far, shooting got weaker and melee slightly better for the one who gets the charge. Also keep in mind we haven't seen the Fight Phase yet. That one comes tomorrow.

[vahouth]

Another thing to consider is the new cover saves rule. Now that it's an armor save modifier, small arms will struggle to wound regular marines when they're charging.

Edited May 1, 2017 by vahouth

[Nemisor]

well so far keeping random charge range is the only thing to disappoint me. still we dont know what might affect that so.....

[The Unseen]

Yeah, even if there is some rule that punishes you for leaving combat, it still leaves that cc unit out in the open to get shot at by everything.

And then next then you run into overwatch all over again, and then they run away again, etc.

Unless they left out very big details, against a shooty army, your never going to be able to hide units in assault, and units get to fire overwatch multiple times against units that are still rolling a 2d6 charge range. So no more sending in a lone dude or two from a squad that's been shot up to soak the overwatch fire for the bigger unit.

Bleh.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Also remember. You can't look at these rules spoilers with 7th edition eyes. The game has been radically changed, yet just familiar enough. So don't succumb to the doom and gloom just yet.

 

I am still completely and totally excited about the game.

 

Edit: I also absolutely love the fact that you actually move the amount of inches you roll now in the charge phase instead of just sit back because Sergeant quarters tripped over a pebble that came out of no where. I've always thought this is how charges should be.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[RedemptionNL]

Edit: I also absolutely love the fact that you actually move the amount of inches you roll now in the charge phase instead of just sit back because Sergeant quarters tripped over a pebble that came out of no where. I've always thought this is how charges should be.

If that is actually how it will work, of course. I remain sceptical of that interpretation of the rules preview until it is made more clear.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Regarding the multiple Overwatch - bare in mind, if you actually make it into assault with the unit then they can't keep shooting Overwatch and they will only shoot "overwatch" again/multiple-times if you keep trying to assault them with other units (so this is minimal), and it sounds like we have a (slightly) better chance of getting into combat now and hitting first as well. Also I wonder how rules like Fleet or Jump Pack re-rolls etc will effect all this, I think they're making a serious effort to give close-combat some help.

[The Unseen]

 

Edit: I also absolutely love the fact that you actually move the amount of inches you roll now in the charge phase instead of just sit back because Sergeant quarters tripped over a pebble that came out of no where. I've always thought this is how charges should be.

If that is actually how it will work, of course. I remain sceptical of that interpretation of the rules preview until it is made more clear.

It appears that you do move your charge distance, BUT, and it's a big one, you have to be within 12" of a target to declare a charge.

So no doing the fantasy trick of charging for extra movement for most of the game.

 

All I really see that doing is pulling you into/out if cover, so it's a wash. Could be good or bad depending on tabletop conditions.

[Panzer]

 

 

Edit: I also absolutely love the fact that you actually move the amount of inches you roll now in the charge phase instead of just sit back because Sergeant quarters tripped over a pebble that came out of no where. I've always thought this is how charges should be.

If that is actually how it will work, of course. I remain sceptical of that interpretation of the rules preview until it is made more clear.

It appears that you do move your charge distance, BUT, and it's a big one, you have to be within 12" of a target to declare a charge.

So no doing the fantasy trick of charging for extra movement for most of the game.

 

All I really see that doing is pulling you into/out if cover, so it's a wash. Could be good or bad depending on tabletop conditions.

 

You always had to be within 12" range to declare a charge unless you got some special rules that allowed you to have more range tho.

[the jeske]

 

If anything from what we've seen so far, shooting got weaker and melee slightly better for the one who gets the charge. Also keep in mind we haven't seen the Fight Phase yet. That one comes tomorrow.

 

Wait till you see the eldar rules to claim that shoting got weaker in 8th. Also while not the case for some models, DC, blendernoughts, normal marine attacks are comperable to being shot by a 2-3 times as many bolters, and vs meq which are the most popular army bolters do not do much.

[Panzer]

 

 

If anything from what we've seen so far, shooting got weaker and melee slightly better for the one who gets the charge. Also keep in mind we haven't seen the Fight Phase yet. That one comes tomorrow.

 

Wait till you see the eldar rules to claim that shoting got weaker in 8th. Also while not the case for some models, DC, blendernoughts, normal marine attacks are comperable to being shot by a 2-3 times as many bolters, and vs meq which are the most popular army bolters do not do much.

 

No need to wait for Eldar rules. Just because one faction steps out of line (IF it still does so in 8th) doesn't change anything about the core rules.

[sebs_evo7]

I think i saw it in the chaos 8th thread but gw responded to someone stating the strung out gun lines would be popular by saying that they will be a bad idea in this edition. Unsure if that relates to being able to consolidate into another unit or maybe some other buff. We will see when they drop the next article i guess

[sebs_evo7]

PLEASE let WE retain the Talisman of Burning Blood in the new edition. To only have it for such a short while would be a shame, especially with 2d6" random range.

 

Also:

 

http://i.imgur.com/60B0usH.png

 

TOTAL conjecture, but I'm hoping this means we'll be able to consolidate into other units!

Here we go

[appiah4]

What if you can try to sweeping advance a disengaging unit?

[Indefragable]

 

PLEASE let WE retain the Talisman of Burning Blood in the new edition. To only have it for such a short while would be a shame, especially with 2d6" random range.

 

Also:

 

http://i.imgur.com/60B0usH.png

 

TOTAL conjecture, but I'm hoping this means we'll be able to consolidate into other units!

Here we go

Great detective work. Well done, seps!

 

i hope there are more valid tactics options overall. Like if you win combat, or if an enemy unit chooses to fall back out of combat, you can CHOOSE to either sweeping advance (and go for the kill) or charge another enemy unit within x". That way both sides need to decide the best viable option. The charged must decide to try and duke it out or die trying, or run for the hills and live but potentially expose another unit to the attacker's urderous rampage. The attackers need to decide if they want to chase down and kill the unit they originally charged, attack some fresh meat nearby, or maybe stand fast and be able to shoot?

 

Who knows but I love the idea of valid options!

[redshadow]

i personally can't wait for the starter set....

the rules and to start playing, its looking like its going to be fast and fun,

it also looks like blood angels will be in a good place

[Charlo]

i personally can't wait for the starter set....

the rules and to start playing, its looking like its going to be fast and fun,

it also looks like blood angels will be in a good place

 

Sadly, I just plain feel we've not seen enough to know if we are in a "good place" or not...

 

I remain entirely positive however :) I'm hoping a few units that are stuck on the production line give me a push to finish them!

[sockwithaticket]

If someone chooses to disengage from a combat I would wholeheartedly support a mechanic of the attackers being able to pump a round of shooting into the backs of the cowards.

[Charlo]

Forgot about that.

 

Totally agree, if overwatch is a thing that certainly should be.