Waking Dreamer Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Im I the only one who thinks that Grey Knight lost all their shine, after this "super marine" announcement? Aint the Grey Knights supposed to be a marine+ already? And to top it, the Super marine vs nurgle? Where are the Grey Knights to fight chaos, vacation? Man, I think this is a missed opportunity for the Grey Knights. Are you talking about lore wise? GKs on the tabletop haven't really been reflected as the uber SMs they are in the lore for a while now. But 8th Ed. Has a whole new revamped psychic phase so I'll wait till then to see how strong GKs are in the meta of other SMs. Personally, I think our Paladins should be just a (half-)step below Custodes when they have proper psychic powers at their disposal. They are supposed to be the best of our best, the ranks of which Grandmasters are chosen from! Hopefully they will be on the heels of the Custodes when 8th comes around. Ideally, equal or better than Marines2.0 with psychic powers used in effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zewl Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Im I the only one who thinks that Grey Knight lost all their shine, after this "super marine" announcement? Aint the Grey Knights supposed to be a marine+ already? And to top it, the Super marine vs nurgle? Where are the Grey Knights to fight chaos, vacation? Man, I think this is a missed opportunity for the Grey Knights. Are you talking about lore wise? GKs on the tabletop haven't really been reflected as the uber SMs they are in the lore for a while now. But 8th Ed. Has a whole new revamped psychic phase so I'll wait till then to see how strong GKs are in the meta of other SMs. Personally, I think our Paladins should be just a (half-)step below Custodes when they have proper psychic powers at their disposal. They are supposed to be the best of our best, the ranks of which Grandmasters are chosen from! Hopefully they will be on the heels of the Custodes when 8th comes around. Ideally, equal or better than Marines2.0 with psychic powers used in effect. Yes, im talking lore wise, I just think its a missed opportunity for the Grey Knights to shine, and instead we get new space marines -_- And its like this new breed is going to deal with everything, including Chaos, based one the starter set, so whats special about Grey Knights, nothing I feel like. All this nemesis weapons, chapter 666, aegis armor, psybolt ammo and so on, just pure get the :cuss of daemon; Yea that fine, much better with new marines, WAIT WHAT?!?! I have only played late 6th and 7th, the problem with Grey Knights was the shooting phase, in the assault phase, they worked fine I think, better then a normal marine, because of hammerhand and nemesis weapons. The rules are hard to balance because of the D6 system, but I hope we get the rules they deserve, like psybolt ammo, the holocaust, and other cool fluff rules. I also hope statlines are better then a normal space marine, but i really doubt it, again because of the D6 system. We may have hammerhand, even improved invul in psychic phase, so that could be fine, as long as the Grey Knights have something that makes them superior to a normal space marine. I dont really care if they are pricy point wise, as long as the rules fits. Im sure the new super marines models are very nice sculpts, no doubt, I look forward to se their rules and the fluff. And of couse the new rules for the Grey Knights!!!!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 We all now get an extra inch for charging now. So that helps us a bit. Still 2D6 random charges though :-\ Also units get to overwatch multiple times. So if we miss out by an inch, and charge with a different unit, they get overwatched again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 yeah, the extra 1" is kind of a only for those people that used PAGK, and I don't think there were that many people playing those. In fact termnators are getting slower comparing to other faction dudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 yeah, the extra 1" is kind of a only for those people that used PAGK, and I don't think there were that many people playing those. In fact termnators are getting slower comparing to other faction dudes. Hmm, the thing is with Terminators having two wounds the overwatch is not as nasty as it was. Not going to complain at an effective +1" charge because for any given distance on the table that makes the probability of getting there better. The tactic of baiting overwatch with a cheap throwaway unit is gone - but then GK never really had cheap throwaway units for that purpose. If you charge you had better mean it. On the Facebook page the community team have said a couple of times in reply to salty responses that the combat phase (preview tomorrow) will be more lethal - if so that plays very much into the GK strengths because GK do not want to be in a slap-fight they want to get killing done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 The way I'm looking at it is the typical GK army now has twice as many wounds, and our vehicles will be useful. Win, win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Happy, that tactic won't be gone; people will still send the weaker units in first to absorb the Overwatch; they just have to actually make it into close combat now to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Happy, that tactic won't be gone; people will still send the weaker units in first to absorb the Overwatch; they just have to actually make it into close combat now to do so. Maybe. My first impression is that it will be better to send in a small tough unit first and then follow up with the squishy unit if you want to get a bit more damage out of the combat. Of course if the squishy unit is expendable and the tough unit critical to winning the scenario then that defines who you declare a charge with first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myunch Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Happy, that tactic won't be gone; people will still send the weaker units in first to absorb the Overwatch; they just have to actually make it into close combat now to do so. Maybe. My first impression is that it will be better to send in a small tough unit first and then follow up with the squishy unit if you want to get a bit more damage out of the combat. Of course if the squishy unit is expendable and the tough unit critical to winning the scenario then that defines who you declare a charge with first. The beauty in all this is, from the impression I get, is it will increase the amount of tactical options at your disposal. Stuff like this can have a tremendous effect on the game, especially when compounded throughout the game. I'm all for this expansion of tactical thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Completely agreed, Myunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiasco Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Well, excitement smothered. Close combat is still the red headed stepchild. Get shot at 12-14 times before making it in to close combat, then they get to leave as soon as they want to so you can shot some more. ~sigh~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myunch Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Well, excitement smothered. Close combat is still the red headed stepchild. Get shot at 12-14 times before making it in to close combat, then they get to leave as soon as they want to so you can shot some more. ~sigh~I can see this perspective for sure, definitely requires some thought ahead of time when charging, however I tend to think that with more of our attacks hitting, not to mention the potential of how our weapons will modify saves, the unit charged by us won't be left on the board to run away =D This, of course, is assuming our Force swords share similar profiles as SW:A. A baseline of S6 AP -3 seems pretty potent, but it's still tbd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psilence Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 I agree with myunch. Weapon profiles will play a large roll in weather or not GK preform in combat the way we want them to. I'm curious to see the assault phase mechanics. I'm still pretty optimistic. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Well, excitement smothered. Close combat is still the red headed stepchild. Get shot at 12-14 times before making it in to close combat, then they get to leave as soon as they want to so you can shot some more. ~sigh~I can see this perspective for sure, definitely requires some thought ahead of time when charging, however I tend to think that with more of our attacks hitting, not to mention the potential of how our weapons will modify saves, the unit charged by us won't be left on the board to run away =D This, of course, is assuming our Force swords share similar profiles as SW:A. A baseline of S6 AP -3 seems pretty potent, but it's still tbd. you can have 10 attacks on a dude and it won't matter, if they do not make it in to combat. The Power armored GK did not get better and the terminators that got extra wounds [good] still do not have a delivery system to go melee. Now on the other hand there is stuff that make return, rifle man dreads are good again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 We may have hammerhand, even improved invul in psychic phase, so that could be fine, as long as the Grey Knights have something that makes them superior to a normal space marine. I dont really care if they are pricy point wise, as long as the rules fits. Im sure the new super marines models are very nice sculpts, no doubt, I look forward to se their rules and the fluff. And of couse the new rules for the Grey Knights!!!!! Yeah, GKs imo will always be expensive points-wise, its part of their low model-count, elite nature. Hopefully they will be the most effective they have ever been in this coming edition. Marines2.0 are supposed to be in the gap between regular SMs and the bodyguards of the Emperor himself, and since Guilliman's Indomitus-Marines are supposedly available for all the other SM chapters barring the GKs, ideally with our utilisation of psychic powers and unique wargear (Nemesis force weapons, Psybolts, Ageis Armour etc.), we wont need them to compete and be at that level on the tabletop already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soder Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Haha ya they posted it on fb as well but don't forget that overwatch only hits on a roll of 6, so I don't think it's gonna as bad as we think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 See as this is the profile for a standard Terminator unit: What would be your preferred profile for our Paladins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Let's see, WS2+, W3, A3, Ld9, with everything else the same. I reckon with decent Psychic powers, I could be happy with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soder Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 I love the idea of the WS2+ but I'm skeptical they'd give us that. Mastercraft that stuff and it'd be nuts, lol. I looked at the dreadnought stats as well to get an idea of how to compare things. Termie gets W2, Dreadnought gets W8 so Paladin half that at W4? Same with attacks termie A2, dread A4, give paladins A3! Who knows what they're gonna do. I can't wait to see how everything's gonna be. But for the love of god, give them ML2! My preferred. For them to be over powered and over priced (which to a GK player should be reasonably priced, lol) Right now they are only over priced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myunch Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Definitely gotta agree with the 2+ to hit and 3 attacks. 4 wounds would seem legit and fluffy, as they represent the best of our best, especially since there's going to be weapons with D3 and D6 wounds (not to mention mortal wounds), cuz we know these guys will have a hefty price tag in points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMostGood Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 I don't understand why people make assumptions without all the facts. No one knows how assault or charging overall is going to work until they release more information. This is just a teaser. A general idea of what is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Well with the core rules being only 12 pages long, we won't get much more info when they're released than what's being given in the teasers. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 For them to make regular termies 2 wounds, our paladins have to at least have 3, and if regular things hit on a 3+, then they have to hit on a 2+. Literally have to in order for it to make sense. So my guess is that they will be farrrrr more expensive than now, and you purchase them as literal bodyguards for a hero. So we'll likely only be taking 2 or 3 at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 So the fight phase teaser is up https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/02/new-warhammer-40000-fight-phase-may2gw-homepage-post-4/ This helps explain the overwatch thing from the charge phase and how it fits in. If you choose to declare a charge against multiple units you get multiple overwatch but if you declare against just one unit you minimise overwatch and with careful positioning get to move in on them with the activation move anyway. My first impression is that units coming out of transports will have to be very careful or we will declare an assault against the transport and just happen to sweep the unit up with our assault to avoid overwatch and wreck them. Once we see the whole ruleset and some unit and weapon profiles players will really start working out new tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 yeah, the extra 1" is kind of a only for those people that used PAGK, and I don't think there were that many people playing those. In fact termnators are getting slower comparing to other faction dudes. Well, I think the hope is that the +1 w and the way AP works now will increase durability. Plus they said terminators will have more rules to keep them fighting. We also only know basic SM stats, for all we know Strikes could be 2Ws, or maybe built in invulns will work better. Plus we've yet to hear abput charging from vehicles, so even if we can disordered charge from Rhinos and Razors, plus our Land Raiders are way more durable. I think it will be a combination of all the rules at play plus using them right that will really make us more durable, not just juicing marines up in stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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