8th edition has me excited about the GK!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah, as you might recall, I've been clamoring for a Personal Teleporter option for Brotherhood Champions since they were first released in 5e. They absolutely would be optimal with that as an upgrade option. At a minimum, though, they need to be able to Deep Strike, so they can at least deploy alongside and move with the TDA squads (and that Brother-Captain they're supposed to protect!).

 

I think GW logic was you run them in a Raven or Land Raider. They never considered how you can't Deep Strike Brotherhood Champions. Same syndrome all our non-Deepstriking squads suffer from. They're supposed to deploy in Rhinos or something. 

I really want the Purgation squads (and Strikes, and Interceptors) to all improve, but I think a big factor there is what they end up doing with the Psycannon profile. If they remain Salvo weapons, our Power Armored infantry are still kind of shafted - two shots at 12" while moving is horrible, as you are well aware.. If they go back to Assault 4, that would be optimal. Rapid Fire 2 would be an acceptable compromise, though, I suppose. Will also be curious to see exactly how Force will work (although I have a guess). We may see a much higher prevalence of Psilencers in our light infantry units to help deal with the preponderance of high-Wound models that are going to be common in 8e games.

 

No idea, although I'm hopeful Salvo is gone. The straight -1 to hit when moving sounds like they're considering ditching it. 

I think Force is gone. We've seen no indication that Instant Death is a thing anymore. Maybe Mortal Wounds? 

[Valerian]

My guess has been Force will add d6  (or d3) Damage to whatever the weapon would normally do. We'll still need it to deal with high-wound daemons (and everything else with high wounds).

[Valerian]

With today's revelation on twin-linked weapons, our Land Raiders, Stormravens, and Razorbacks all just got huge shooting buffs. Wow!

[Myunch]

Force I imagine will just cause mortal wounds or D3 wounds.

Or force weapons maybe an always active ability, and on a 6 to wound is D3 mortal wounds? I'd be happy with any of the above I think.

Ideally the mortal wounds thing would be amazing and take us up a notch in close combat. Would also tie in to how powerful they are made to seem in the lore. With instant death seemingly gone it's going to be interesting to see how and if they rework this.

[newdigitalGK]

So I may just bring back my TL Autocannon dreads... 8 shots....

[Captain Coolpants]

Depending on how the split fire rules will work, I might give dreads a twin Lascannon and a twin autocannon.

If single models can't split fire, then definitely worth bringing twin autocannons back!

 

I'm hoping FW bring out updated rules for our variants. Twinlinked psycannon on the landraider and razorback will be cool.

[Ishagu]

So I may just bring back my TL Autocannon dreads... 8 shots....

I'm definitely adding a Dread to my GK :-)

[Valerian]

So I may just bring back my TL Autocannon dreads... 8 shots....

 

Dang it,  I knew I shouldn't have gotten rid of those two.  Aaargh.   

Depending on how the split fire rules will work, I might give dreads a twin Lascannon and a twin autocannon.

If single models can't split fire, then definitely worth bringing twin autocannons back!

 

I'm hoping FW bring out updated rules for our variants. Twinlinked psycannon on the landraider and razorback will be cool.

 

40k Facebook confirmed that vehicles get to split fire, too.

[Captain Coolpants]

Awesome! I have 4 dreads, 3 able to have 2 autocannons each. Or a Las and auto each!

[Valerian]

Dreadnoughts and Dreadknights

 

We’ve already seen the basic Dreadnought characteristics, so we know a little of what to expect.  We know that they’ll become quite a bit more durable, and ought to be able to really compete with Nemesis Dreadknights for a spot in our lists.  I’m assuming that the Dreadknight’s stat-line will stay more-or-less the same, (although they may get another couple Wounds to offset the fact that high-strength weapons will be doing multiple wounds in Damage now0.  Other than that, they were already the best unit in our arsenal, so not much reason to make major adjustments.

 

So with that assumption, the Dreadnought will have a slightly higher Toughness and double the Wounds.  The Dreadknight will have a better armor save and I’d expect it’ll keep the higher mobility of the personal teleporter (which will probably just come standard since there’s never a reason not to take that option) to help differentiate the two.  So, we ultimately have the decision between speed (Dreadknight) versus protection (Dreadnought), which is perfect internal balance, in my mind.

 

I’m thinking that the Personal Teleporter is going to comprise the special rule for the Dreadknights.  I don’t see much else really fitting, or being necessary, frankly.  Just give them a 12 Movement characteristic, then the ability to deep strike and do the once per game ‘shunt’ and we’re still good-to-go.

 

It’s hard to say what bespoke special rules they might give Grey Knights Dreadnoughts.  If we’re lucky it’ll be something that increases durability even further, like ignoring the AP on AP-1 and AP-2 attacks, as some models have in Age of Sigmar.  This would go a long way toward offsetting the armor save difference it’ll have vice the Dreadknight. 

 

As for options, the Venerable rule really wouldn’t make sense anymore.  I wonder if they’ll just split out Venerable Dreadnoughts as an additional unit, and just have a version with a better WS and BS and a couple more Wounds?  If so, I could really go for that (and we’d have players buying Dreadnought boxed sets like hot cakes!).  Hopefully they don’t just scrap Venerable Dreadnoughts entirely. 

 

They really need to add some additional operational mobility options for our Dreadnoughts.  We traditionally haven’t had access to Drop Pods, so have been stuck with the Stormraven as our only transport option for the Dreadnought. The high cost of the Stormraven makes it a nonviable solution.  I’m fine with continued lack of access to pods, if the designers would just embrace our army’s theme and grant a deep strike option.

 

We learned today that vehicles can split fire, so assume that will work with both Noughts and Knights.  Also, we learned what Twin-linked weapons do, so that is huge for the Noughts, who have several Twin-linked weapon mount options (Lascannon, Autocannon, Heavy Bolter, and even Heavy Flamer).  All very good stuff that means there is definitely a spot for Dreadnoughts in our armies again.

[Valerian]

"We reckon they (Storm Bolters) will do oh, so many shots...." I'm thinking this sounds pretty good for an army with Storm Bolters on nearly every model.

[Valerian]

Marshal_Roujakis, on 10 May 2017 - 9:28 PM, said:

ummm... Stormravens...

24 Bolters, 2 Multimeltas, 8 Assault Cannons and 2 Missiles... a turn... or if you want full Shooty... 24 Bolters, 6 Heavy Bolters, 8 Assault Cannons, and 2 Missiles...
12 Carry Capacity + 1 Dreadnought...

less capacity than the LRC by 2, but by level of sheer brutality and added capacity to bring a Dreadnought, I hope it gets a point increase, because otherwise it's going to be a staple in ANY game...

 

 

Stolen from another thread.  He has a point; maybe Stormravens aren't going to be too expensive for what they can do anymore.  Still would like an alternate mobility option for the Dreadnought, though, just in case there isn't room for a Stormraven in the list.

 

V

[LuisMars]

"We reckon they (Storm Bolters) will do oh, so many shots...." I'm thinking this sounds pretty good for an army with Storm Bolters on nearly every model.

This sounds even better if psybolt ammo is back.

[Valerian]

So, here's what we've gotten to see with today's preview of the Rubric Marines dataslate (look over in 8th edition rumor subforum for more). We'll have to make some assumptions, but can do some pretty good extrapolating for our Grey Knights, based on this.

1. Importantly, it looks like 'Force' is just going to go ahead and give the flat D3 damage without needing to be activated at all. That's terrific for a couple of reasons, not the least of which is no worry about Perils for your weapon, but you also will get to preserve your psychic power per turn for something else useful.

2. 'Nemesis' will probably do something in addition to this to distinguish those from normal force weapons. Because they're geared toward fighting daemons, we'll need another benefit besides the AP factor, as many/most daemons have invulnerable saves that the AP wouldn't affect anyway.

3. I love how balanced those weapons are - you just trade strength bonus for AP bonus. Assuming Hammerhand is still a thing that improves Strength, it might be a smart move to have a bunch of Swords, vice the other options.

4. I wonder if the Halberds will copy the Axe's stats, or if it'll be different. I'd honestly be fine if it ends up being the same as the Axe.

V

[Waking Dreamer]

So, Force swords are S:User AP-3 Damage:D3, while Force Staves are S:+2 AP-1 Damage:D3.

 

Looks like Force weapons do D3 Damage now since there isn't any Instant Death, but then you don't need to activate the Force aspect of the weapon anymore or use up resources in the psychic phase.

 

Edit: Ninja'd

[Myunch]

It's going to be intriguing to see if Hammerhand stays the same, not to mention if the Strength VS Toughness will have any effect on the AP as well. This is going to make for some interesting choices.

[Gentlemanloser]

The gamer in me shudders that Staves do more damage than Axes. ;)

[Valerian]

The gamer in me shudders that Staves do more damage than Axes.

They'll do the same damage - D3.

[Holier Than Thou]

What will Hammers do? Strength +3, AP -4? Strength x 2?

[Captain Coolpants]

Loving this! Always active, D3 wounds is great!

 

Ultimately, it is a nerf realistically. Because it means we can't just straight up kill big guys anymore regardless of wounds. And force used to do D3 to GC anyway.

 

But it means we we can save our psychic tests for other powers now.

Here's hoping we can cause D3 wounds to vehicles too.

 

I'm just wondering what they'll do to the 'nemesis' part of our weapons.

Mortal wounds against daemons? D6 wounds against them instead?

[Gentlemanloser]

Sorry, have a higher Strength.

Or be easier causing Wounds, or dealing damage. However you want to call it!

[Valerian]

Daemon hammers will likely be Sx2, AP-3 or -4, and D6 damage. Mortal wounds for Nemesis on daemons seems pretty powerful, but you never know.

 

Yes, the D3 will apply to all enemy units, including vehicles.

[jeffersonian000]

Hammerhand might turn those D3s into D6s, if Shadow War is an example.

 

SJ

[Valerian]

Definitely possible.  

 

Could go anywhere from here, but at least we (sort of) know the baseline.  I'm happy that the transition to 8th doesn't appear like it will invalidate all of my/our models as suboptimal this time.  If you've got swords, you'll probably be fine.  Halberds?  Still fine.  Warding Stave?  Probably fine.

[Psilence]

Hopefully they 'all' remain force weapons. There might be some balance issues with 5 guys doing 45 wounds.

 

5 Terminators 2 attacks per, charge, d3 wounds per hit assuming best case scenario. 3 * 5 * (3).

 

Previous editions had power/force effects for higher ranking knights only (as they grow in psychic power).

 

Just a thought.