8th edition has me excited about the GK!

[Waking Dreamer]

Hopefully they 'all' remain force weapons. There might be some balance issues with 5 guys doing 45 wounds.

 

5 Terminators 2 attacks per, charge, d3 wounds per hit assuming best case scenario. 3 * 5 * (3).

 

Previous editions had power/force effects for higher ranking knights only (as they grow in psychic power).

 

Just a thought.

 

 

I'm confident they will all remain Force weapons. It will keep GKs as respectable fighters in combat. Remember, 45 wounds is the absolute best scenario a GK player could hope for and statistically very unlikely.

 

With Twin-linked weapons now doubling number of hits, split-fire, rapid-fire 2, multiple overwatches etc. enemy shooting has become even more versatile, and an opponent of similar skill-level probably made a mistake if he didn't reduce your 5-man terminator down a little before you got into charge range.

[Valerian]

Hopefully they 'all' remain force weapons. There might be some balance issues with 5 guys doing 45 wounds.

 

5 Terminators 2 attacks per, charge, d3 wounds per hit assuming best case scenario. 3 * 5 * (3).

 

Previous editions had power/force effects for higher ranking knights only (as they grow in psychic power).

 

Just a thought.

 

They'll all remain force weapons.  I'd put a box of donuts on the line.  

 

If everything went perfectly, sure they could hypothetically do 45 Wounds, but a realistic scenario has a unit of 5 with Swords getting in about 4 wounding hits against MEQs out of those 15 attacks, which would be just 4 dead Marines if they all had 1 wound (the D3 wounds would be irrelevant), or 1 dead Dreadnought (average of 8 wounds when rolling 4d3).  A full squad of Grey Knights Terminators ought to be able to bring down a Dreadnought or nearly half a Tactical Squad on an assault, so this isn't overpowered at all.

 

V

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'm glad swords are getting some love. In SWA they are undoubtedly the most powerful nemesis upgrade besides the hammer. -3 is brutal, and Parry is a very good rule. I have a tonne of sword-equipped Terminators that will finally hit like a freight train. 

 

One change that I'm of two minds is the 'USR's are gone' edict. On the one hand, it is very handy to have all the rules contained in the unit entry, the only exception being army-wide abilities (I imagine we'll have a few) or upgrades that are uncommon but also shared across the army. On the other, the ability to 'patch' multiple factions by simply updating or FAQ'ing how a specific USR worked is a very streamlined means to rebalance certain game mechanics. That said, I know in Warmhordes it can lead to law of unintended consequences when done poorly. They nerfed Spiny Growth to balance Legion (basically a defensive spell buff that caused random damage if an enemy hit them in melee, as well as an armour boost), but in the process made it useless in every other faction (including Gators, where it was one of the few ways to boost ARM on their warbeasts). 

 

I think USR's is a good idea, and the implication that we're too stupid to understand the concept of reading a main rulebook and a faction army book is a bit insulting. Maybe GW has brain problems and can't reference stuff properly (their batreps indicate as much), but the community has gone through multiple editions of this dynamic without issue. 

[Prot]

I think it looks like the force weapons will be fantastic. The additional strength will just amount to wounding most infantry on 3's which might be a bit of a bummer but the good news is it looks like this means a better AP modifier.

 

Maybe the Halbred is more akin to a force axe now? Which would be great.

 

As far as Force, we know now it's still a thing and the difference appears to be D3 Damage factor. A force Hammer might be just fantastic with vehicles.

[Waking Dreamer]

Would the Psilencer be effective at causing wounds if it still has force and remained at 6 shots? I know at best it could inflict 18 wounds on it's own, but statistically not sure how many wounds on average...?

[Prot]

I feel like the Psilencer might need an over haul.... Force seems to cause D3 Damage now. Times that by the shots and that thing -could- be damaging to Wraithknights and dreadnaughts in that case. (roll a 6 to wound and get D3 wounds each). I think a lot of people would be upset with that kind of potency in a weapon like that.

 

I'm glad I have two PA guys with them! Plus I always used one on one of my NDK's as well :)

[the jeske]

psylancers could have -ap or even give +1mod to save[being needles etc], this could balance the d3 wound from being force, at least in my opinion. but who knows, maybe the psycannon will turn in to a GK AC and the lance in to GK version of hvy bolter.

[Gentlemanloser]

They're not needles, but bolts of pure psychic energy.

 

I always wondered how they could be AP-.  Makes little sense.

 

Edit: Psilencer S and AP should be based off of the PML of the user.  Stronger Psycher you are, the more powerful the weapon is.

 

And now with Dd3 per shot, as it's inbuilt 'Force'.

[Valerian]

I was eyeballing my models earlier and thinking about how things might change.  I'm seriously considering pulling out some of my models from current (unused) Strike and Purifiers squads to create a new 5-man Purgation squad.  I've never before thought that one of those would be useful, but now it makes sense to me to consolidate some of that firepower into this support unit, and focus the others for close combat.  

 

Just by moving some models around, I'll have enough for that Purgation squad of 5 Knights, 2 Strike squads of 5 Knights, and a Purifier squad of 6 Knights.  These 4 units in Power Armor will be in addition to my two Terminator squads, and the Paladin squad.  This all assumes, of course, that all of those units are viable and have a place in the army, but based on everything I've seen so far of 8e, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that they will.

 

I love this, as I'll get to field a detachment of Grey Knights that feels a lot more in keeping with the background, and "fluffy" rather than just spamming the few effective units.  Another thing is that I think it will finally be feasible to use all of those various weapons that come on the sprues.  Instead of giving all of the Strikes a Sword, and all of the Purifiers at Halberd (as was the default several years back, it seemed), I think a squad that has a Hammer, Halberd, Sword, Stave, and Falchions will not only look cool, it'll work out just fine on the tabletop.

 

Depending on what they end up doing with the Psilencers, I may need to buy another boxed set to create a Purgation squad of those, as I don't have a single Silencer anywhere in the army.  

 

All of this potential has gotten me really hopeful about the future for the Sons of Titan.

 

Can't wait for release.

 

V

[Phiasco]

Today's news about power level/point values has me curious about how hammers and fists will work. Will their cost come literally in points? Or will they have some 'unwieldy' style rule where they take away the 'gets to go first if you charged' benefit?

[Valerian]

Today's news about power level/point values has me curious about how hammers and fists will work. Will their cost come literally in points? Or will they have some 'unwieldy' style rule where they take away the 'gets to go first if you charged' benefit?

 

I answered this same question for you over in the BA thread, but I'll do it again here:

 

"They'll have some sort of downside, other than just expense in points, because the 40k FB team said they would.  What that is remains to be seen.  A guess would be no +1 to attacks for those guys on the turn you charge (if that rule even continues to exist in 8th).  Hopefully it's not an "always goes last" mechanic, as that would be annoying to track, and it would be nice to get those bigger hits going first this edition after so long without."

[Phiasco]

Thanks Valerian. I actually asked the question in multiple threads because I was looking for some varying thoughts and opinions. See what ideas everyone has and so on.

[Phiasco]

Different interpretations of rules/rumors tend to be shaped by the mindset of whatever group is being asked to do the interpretation. It's nice to get an overall fee for things from several different angles.

 

Extra credit though if you can find my other two posts about it.

[Valerian]

Thanks Valerian. I actually asked the question in multiple threads because I was looking for some varying thoughts and opinions. See what ideas everyone has and so on.

 

Understand why you'd want to do it, but that's considered board spamming and is against the forum rules.  

 

Would be pretty easy for me to find your other posts since I can easily search that through your profile.

 

V

[Plasmablasts]

An alternative "Unwieldy" effect would be a -1 to hit modifier. My guess for the Daemonhammer would be:

 

S x2 AP -3 D d6 Unwieldy (-1 to hit) Concussive (models which suffer at least one unsaved wound from a Daemonhammer have -1 to hit modifier for the rest of that turn)

 

For the rest:

 

Sword as per force sword, halberd as per axe, staff as staff (but hoping for something else to make it a "warding stave", not just a fancy club: either a bonus to denying psychic powers [like 7tg edition] or a 3++ in close combat [as in SW:A]).

 

Falchions - probably S as user, AP -2, +1 attack.

 

For NDK melee weapons, we hit an interesting question: we're told that stats are no longer capped at 10: if the NDK's strength remains 6 and all its weapons continue to be S x2, we could see it hitting at S12!

 

Some rough guesses:

 

Pair of doomfists: Sx2 AP -3 D d6 +1 attack

Hammer: Sx2 AP -3 D 2d6 -1 to hit

Great sword: Sx2 AP -4 D d6 +1 to hit (to represent Master-crafting)

[jeffersonian000]

Weapon Strength only matters if it's above or below the target's toughness. Above = 3+ to wound. Same = 4+ to wound. Below = 5+ to wound. So S 1 versus T 20 is still 5+ to wound, which means everything can hurt everything in 8e.

 

SJ

[Holier Than Thou]

Weapon Strength only matters if it's above or below the target's toughness. Above = 3+ to wound. Same = 4+ to wound. Below = 5+ to wound. So S 1 versus T 20 is still 5+ to wound, which means everything can hurt everything in 8e.

SJ

I thought it was 2+ if strength was double the toughness or more and 6+ if the strength was half the toughness or less?

[Myunch]

 

Weapon Strength only matters if it's above or below the target's toughness. Above = 3+ to wound. Same = 4+ to wound. Below = 5+ to wound. So S 1 versus T 20 is still 5+ to wound, which means everything can hurt everything in 8e.

SJ

I thought it was 2+ if strength was double the toughness or more and 6+ if the strength was half the toughness or less?

This is how I've read it as well. At S12 there's very few things you couldn't wound on 3+ though, T6 and below 2+ of course.

[Valerian]

 

 

Weapon Strength only matters if it's above or below the target's toughness. Above = 3+ to wound. Same = 4+ to wound. Below = 5+ to wound. So S 1 versus T 20 is still 5+ to wound, which means everything can hurt everything in 8e.

SJ

I thought it was 2+ if strength was double the toughness or more and 6+ if the strength was half the toughness or less?

This is how I've read it as well. At S12 there's very few things you couldn't wound on 3+ though, T6 and below 2+ of course.

 

 

That's right.  If T is double or more, then it'll take a 6 to wound.  As far as weapons on NDKs go, there's no reason for the Hammer and Fists not to be Sx2.  A 12 Strength will fit right in as S and T scale beyond 10 now.  You'll probably really need that S12 against certain types of what used to be called super-heavy vehicles.  The Greatsword might be Sx2, too, like it is now, but I can see them changing that to some other effect instead.  They've done a good job of giving weapons specific niches, so I can see Greatswords become even more effective against hordes, while Fists and Hammers are better against vehicles.

[Myunch]

That would be a welcome change honestly, my biggest issue with GK in 7th has been just a lack of options, not only unit choices but weapon options as well. I would love nothing more than being able to scratch my head wondering which option to take lol =P

[Valerian]

That would be a welcome change honestly, my biggest issue with GK in 7th has been just a lack of options, not only unit choices but weapon options as well. I would love nothing more than being able to scratch my head wondering which option to take lol =P

 

Definitely!  That dilemma has been missing from the game, and especially this faction for a long, long, time.

[Segismundo]

No primary space marines for grey knights because... reasons.

[Myunch]

Tbh the Primaris Space Marine concept is a little underwhelming to me. Not sure how that'd work if they made ones for GK.

[Valerian]

No primary space marines for grey knights because... reasons.

We would probably be able to take them, as the unit entry we've seen so far has a keyword 'fill-in-the-blank' Chapter, and we are a Chapter.

 

However, that being said, they'll mesh a lot better with other Chapters than the Grey Knights. Our guys are already elite, with Chapter-wide Storm Bolters, Nemeses Force Weapons, and Psychic Powers, so the Primaris Marines don't offer much with just 2 Wounds and Bolt Rifles.

 

Probably one day we'll get a Primaris version of what we currently have, but they'd need completely new sculpts for that, and not just upgrade kits. Grey Knights armor is completely distinctive, so I don't mind having to wait a bit, if it's actually going to materialize.

[~Drakzilla~]

I'm skeptical the Grey Knights will recieve any, it just doesn't fit them. It'd be like if they received centurion warsuits. Sure, all chapters should have access to them, but GK are way more divergent and created for a specialized purpose, so they only fit the "Chapter" definition in the broadest sense.