Gentlemanloser Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I don't care what GW pr spin says. D3 damage for force and smite isn't going to stop 2w, 2a, 30" range ap-1 bolters from invalidating my army. We better get some decent upgrades. Edit. I bet Primaris Marines are going to cost the same as strikes. And strikes won't get 2w... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Seeing as how these guys are getting 2A and 2W, plus improved ranged weaponry, I certainly hope we are getting some fluffy upgrades ourselves e.g. Psybolt ammo, Astral Aim (of some kind) and the hinted at "oh so much shots" stormbolter (assault 3or4?). I'm thinking our Paladins would also likely be WS2+ W3or4 A3, since Primaris Marines Sergeants have A3 base. Personally, I don't think GKs need Primaris Marines integrated into our ranks (in the fluff they also have to be strong psykers) unless as allies, but from a gaming perspective, seeing as they are shaping to be probably as costly as our PAs anyway, I'd just like our own units to be their psychic equivalents from the get go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I don't care what GW pr spin says. D3 damage for force and smite isn't going to stop 2w, 2a, 30" range ap-1 bolters from invalidating my army. We better get some decent upgrades. Edit. I bet Primaris Marines are going to cost the same as strikes. And strikes won't get 2w... Really? I think they're actually underwhelming, so far. They get 2 Wounds, but are otherwise as vulnerable as any other Marine. Gun is slightly better, but not enough to really make me excited, especially since we haven't seen what they're planning for Storm Bolters yet. Unless they are super cheap, they aren't going to be worth the expense. They don't get a single upgrade option on the unit, so those 2 Attacks are pretty meaningless. Unit is capped at 5, so no way to bulk it up to last. I'll take D3 damage Nemesis Weapons, Storm Bolters, Psychic powers (even if it is Smite(-), like the Aspiring Champion gets), and upgrade option for Psycannon, Psilencer, or Incinerator over these guys any day. Now, that's not to say that their other units that we haven't seen yet won't be sweet, but there is no way (in my opinion) these Tactical-equivalants are going to replace anything from the GK arsenal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 I agree to be sincere I was a little underwhelmed by the Primaris. I started to wonder if they were holding back on some wild uber Cawl Grav weapon or something! I think multiple wounds are okay but the shooting phase looks so destructive I'm not sure it's a good idea to start replacing all your marines with these guys until we know more. The special weapons of the grey knights alone could be punching a lot of multiwound units into the ground. We just don't know yet. I do have a feeling that the brutality of the game means if grey knights reach such a squad, they're probably toast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagah Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Seeing as how these guys are getting 2A and 2W, plus improved ranged weaponry, I certainly hope we are getting some fluffy upgrades ourselves e.g. Psybolt ammo, Astral Aim (of some kind) and the hinted at "oh so much shots" stormbolter (assault 3or4?). I'm thinking our Paladins would also likely be WS2+ W3or4 A3, since Primaris Marines Sergeants have A3 base. Personally, I don't think GKs need Primaris Marines integrated into our ranks (in the fluff they also have to be strong psykers) unless as allies, but from a gaming perspective, seeing as they are shaping to be probably as costly as our PAs anyway, I'd just like our own units to be their psychic equivalents from the get go. I would be extremely surprised if Paladins get WS2+, this seems reserved for legendary characters only so we may see it on Draigo but IMO unlikely anywhere else. I think you could be on the money though with W3 and A3 as basic stats for Paladins. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 They will be twice as survivable as strikes. With a better basic weapon. I doubt they will cost twice as much. Don't forget we have yet to see the tda or other types of these guys yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Seeing as how these guys are getting 2A and 2W, plus improved ranged weaponry, I certainly hope we are getting some fluffy upgrades ourselves e.g. Psybolt ammo, Astral Aim (of some kind) and the hinted at "oh so much shots" stormbolter (assault 3or4?). I'm thinking our Paladins would also likely be WS2+ W3or4 A3, since Primaris Marines Sergeants have A3 base. Personally, I don't think GKs need Primaris Marines integrated into our ranks (in the fluff they also have to be strong psykers) unless as allies, but from a gaming perspective, seeing as they are shaping to be probably as costly as our PAs anyway, I'd just like our own units to be their psychic equivalents from the get go. I would be extremely surprised if Paladins get WS2+, this seems reserved for legendary characters only so we may see it on Draigo but IMO unlikely anywhere else. I think you could be on the money though with W3 and A3 as basic stats for Paladins. Fair enough. Hopefully they'll get some effective psychic powers to make the better stand out from our GK TDA then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Also, while no stats have been released yet (I'm sure that unit profile for the Primaris isn't complete), we have seen pictures of them with Plasma Rifles, so they will be getting other guns than just the Bolt Rifle. I'd be surprised if they don't get any upgrade options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Primaris Marines are stupid but they're really just Marines+1. I'm more keen about our Terminators being 2W and the potential for charging from Deepstrike (AoS does allow this, and its basically the template they're using for 8th edition). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Weren't we (or even the Custodians...) supposed to be Marines +1? If not, and there's no Psychic Primaris, we're going to (eventually) get left behind... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisMars Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Weren't we (or even the Custodians...) supposed to be Marines +1? If not, and there's no Psychic Primaris, we're going to (eventually) get left behind... The way I see it is if Marines were a cake, Grey Knights and Custodes are tastier cakes made with the same ingredients as Marines and Primaris are the same type of cake as Regular Marines but with more sugar added. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 But where as Marines, and even Primaris, are made with Primach Gene-seed, the GK (No idea about the Custodians, I thought they were altogether different beasts) are made with the Emperors Gene-seed itself. I wonder if RG had a secret stash of that laying around... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Personally, I think the Bigmarines look neat and am pretty tempted to pick up a unit, even if it never gets further than dryfitting GK shoulderpads and helmets on them. Cautious optimism for how we turn out in this new, larger Imperium but there'll surely be some interesting stuff for us to play around with. Bring on Age of Bigmar! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4742870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Actually, now that I have review the new lore it all makes sebse to me on what GW did here. Ignoring that this is a major attempt at pulling the IP out of a nose dive, GW has given us an out via lore. Guilliman requested of Crawl a next generation of Astartes without the inherent flaws of Geneseed mutation noted during the Heresy. It took Crawl nearly 10,000 years to complete the project, at which point Crawl set about bringing Guilliman back. Sure, it's a bit sloppy, but its not a major retcon either. The new Sig-Astartes/Primaris are still a cash grab, but at least it's an update to the setting! So ... I'm okay with it. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4743457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Totally not interested in BigMarines. Like I will not be bothered if my opponent puts them on the table but for me personally zero interest. But then I can lose interest in Blood Angels by the time someone has finished saying the chapter name so I guess some parts of the setting just don't call out to me at all. Teleport and reserves tomorrow, that sounds more like our kind of thing! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4743521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Teleport and reserves tomorrow, that sounds more like our kind of thing! I certainly hope so! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4743632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 Yeah it's gonna be big. We'll get a big taste of reserve viability and how our Termies might operate, especially now that we can't add characters to units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4743652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Yeah it's gonna be big. We'll get a big taste of reserve viability and how our Termies might operate, especially now that we can't add characters to units. On that note, I'm curious to know if they've added a system by which Characters can synchronize their arrival with other units. Would suck for a Grand Master to roll well and arrive on the tabletop a turn before his Paladin escorts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4743672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Isn't that what your command tokens are for, to re-roll such stuff.? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4743727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 No scatter die is a start. However I think.... the reserves are the biggy here. The game seems so brutal in 8th, I can't fathom having a 4 turn reserve possibility. /crosses fingers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4743752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I know this is not something for imperial/GK people, but unless there is a low/mid chance to get units from reserves the difference in power between it and the new summoning rules would be too great. But who knows, maybe there is no rolling an reservs auto arrive from turn X. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4744056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 So we've lost the ability to null deploy... And if reserves aren't on the battlefield by 3rd turn they are classed as destroyed. Possibility of charging from reserves though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4744468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Details are up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/17/new-warhammer-40000-reserves-and-deep-striking-may17gw-homepage-post-4/ So quite a few changes, and not all bad. First, in Matched play (the default) at least half of the units in your army must start on the board. Second, you get to pick when you come in, rather than rolling a dice (as far as I could tell from the article), which is very handy. In the example, it says at the end of any of your Movement phases, so it looks like it's possible to deep strike in from Turn 1, if you wish. Third, you get to pick exactly where you land, rather than scattering from a point, with the only restriction being that you must be at least 9" away from the enemy. Fourth, no restrictions on charging after a deep strike; you just have to make the 8" charge distance (since we get the free inch in 8e). EDIT Fifth, answering my question from yesterday, since you can pick when and where you arrive now, you absolutely can ensure that your Characters arrive with their retinues, so you won't be left out hanging in the wind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4744486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myunch Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Did I misinterpret or did they just not say anything about scatter? It seems like the gist of it was no scatter... considering the rules of the Trygon of course... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4744489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Did I misinterpret or did they just not say anything about scatter? It seems like the gist of it was no scatter... considering the rules of the Trygon of course... There's no scatter dice in 8e, so you just pick exactly where you want them to land (as long as it's 9" away from enemies). Works exactly like Age of Sigmar, by the way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333234-8th-edition-has-me-excited-about-the-gk/page/8/#findComment-4744524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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