8th edition has me excited about the GK!

[Valerian]

I can actually envision dumping units of Strike squads in deep strike to try and get the charge off on vulnerable enemy long-ranged support squads.  If they make the charge roll, Strikes attacking first with Nemesis force weapons will be plenty strong enough to deal with most opponents.

 

Terminators are durable enough to walk up the board, and are likely still going to be able to move and shoot heavy weapons, etc. without sacrificing range or accuracy.

 

If NDK can still shunt, then they'll be fine without trying to deep strike.

 

I don't think the requirement to keep half units on the table at deployment is going to hurt too badly.

[Prot]

Since reserves seem to be army specific rules... even unit specific rules and not universal all we can do is hope that basically everything (and not just Nids) can choose a movement phase to bring things in.

 

Too bad they used Nids as the example as that has to be one of the most unique units in the game with a 'tunneling' function. Termies, jump packs, pods, etc are all much more similar to units found in the game. Heck we don't know if charging after reserves is a 'nid thing' or not.

 

I found this article to be almost too light to take anything from except the fact that reserves appear to be unit specific now.

[Valerian]

The rules will be model/unit specific (since we know pretty much all of the rules are on data slates now, and not in the actual rulebook/pamphlet), but I'd put good money on the vast majority of deep striking reserves working the exact same way.  There will probably be a few subtle variations wherever the designers thought something truly unique for a unit is appropriate, but for the most part it'll work the same.  I believe that is generally how it plays out in AoS, as well.  So we should be able to draw some pretty good conclusions about how it'll play out for Grey Knights.

 

V

 

EDIT: From another Frater:

 

Universal 9" thing is true for AoS.  There are some units that have an exception.  Vanguard Hunters, for example, have an outflank-esque rule that lets them deploy within 7" of enemy units but within 6" of a table edge.

 

[Myunch]

Well, here's to hoping we get some cool special rules for a fluffier GK deep strike... like something along the lines of arriving as one unit all within a certain range of the first unit would be pretty cool.

[Ishagu]

Since reserves seem to be army specific rules... even unit specific rules and not universal all we can do is hope that basically everything (and not just Nids) can choose a movement phase to bring things in.

 

Too bad they used Nids as the example as that has to be one of the most unique units in the game with a 'tunneling' function. Termies, jump packs, pods, etc are all much more similar to units found in the game. Heck we don't know if charging after reserves is a 'nid thing' or not.

 

I found this article to be almost too light to take anything from except the fact that reserves appear to be unit specific now.

Yeah the article picked an annoying, obscure example and was pretty vague.

It does set us up for a potential disappointment.... Or a nice surprise!!

[Beams]

I'm imagining storm Bolters are going to be better, or at the very least costed cheaper, since a combi-bolter is now better than a 7th edition storm Bolters. That, and the fact that, historically, Grey Knights can almost always deepstrikes, gives us a huge advantage over primaris Marines, as we should be able to set up half of our army within 9" of the enemy, for a potential first turn charge, or a volley of storm Bolters to the face, depending on the threat.

 

Possibly even both, if assault weapons are still a thing.

 

Also, the half of the army that starts on the board could be Interceptors, rifle dreadnought, dread knights, and other things that don't necessarily need to deepstrikes due to speed or range.

[Happy-inquisitor]

I would have loved the specific example to be a Terminator but the early examples were very Imperium-centric and I think they are trying to balance that out  hence the Trygon. This example probably also shows us pretty much exactly how drop pods will work in 8th.

 

As this is the same as the most common form of this rule in AOS I think this will also be the most common in 40K; you choose which turn to arrive and place your model more than 9" from the nearest enemy model - and then may attempt to charge.

 

I think it very likely that this is the rule that our GK will get, albeit with possible tweaks for Warlord Traits or wargear such as the Teleport Homer.  Having to make a 9" charge is a bit of a long-shot (re-roll strategem will help a little) but is also a viable threat, especially if you have a few units in teleport reserve. I also play AOS and this plays pretty well in that game, only a very few units get to easy-assault from off the table and they are highly feared (and if I am honest possibly going to get a nerf in GHB2 as it can create un-fun games: spoken as a player whose favourite unit is one of those that can pull this off).

 

The key things for me are that we will almost certainly not be at the mercy of random reserve rolls or deep-strike mishap. Our expensive units will arrive where and when we want them without fail. They will not have an easy-win button in the form of arriving in short charge range if the game designers have any sense.

 

The Matched Play restrictions make sense to me as they will apply equally to all armies. Null Deploy was a janky mechanic - in 7th edition it was in among many other janky things like death-stars but when those are taken out of the game there is little justification for leaving that one in. In the fluff GK can appear out of nowhere and in Narrative games they still can, I tend to agree with the game designers that there would have been opportunities for un-fun or non-interactive gaming experiences in competitive tournaments that needed a rule to prevent them.

[Holier Than Thou]

The thing is, previously a 1st turn charge could be overpowered as you could potentially be safe in the opponent's shooting phase before wiping out the unit in their turn and be free to assault another unit on your turn, and so on. That's not the case now with units being able to freely walk out of combat.

 

So now, instead of being able to deep strike our whole army, just like in the lore, they have taken a very fluffy theme and got rid of it. Grey Knights weren't a competitive army before and now the tournament players who were used to playtest the new edition have got rid of one of the only viable options for us whilst improving the shooting abilities of the T'au, as if they needed it.

 

My enthusiasm for the new edition has just hit rock bottom.

[Valerian]

I would have loved the specific example to be a Terminator but the early examples were very Imperium-centric and I think they are trying to balance that out  hence the Trygon. This example probably also shows us pretty much exactly how drop pods will work in 8th.

 

As this is the same as the most common form of this rule in AOS I think this will also be the most common in 40K; you choose which turn to arrive and place your model more than 9" from the nearest enemy model - and then may attempt to charge.

 

I think it very likely that this is the rule that our GK will get, albeit with possible tweaks for Warlord Traits or wargear such as the Teleport Homer.  Having to make a 9" charge is a bit of a long-shot (re-roll strategem will help a little) but is also a viable threat, especially if you have a few units in teleport reserve. I also play AOS and this plays pretty well in that game, only a very few units get to easy-assault from off the table and they are highly feared (and if I am honest possibly going to get a nerf in GHB2 as it can create un-fun games: spoken as a player whose favourite unit is one of those that can pull this off).

 

The key things for me are that we will almost certainly not be at the mercy of random reserve rolls or deep-strike mishap. Our expensive units will arrive where and when we want them without fail. They will not have an easy-win button in the form of arriving in short charge range if the game designers have any sense.

 

The Matched Play restrictions make sense to me as they will apply equally to all armies. Null Deploy was a janky mechanic - in 7th edition it was in among many other janky things like death-stars but when those are taken out of the game there is little justification for leaving that one in. In the fluff GK can appear out of nowhere and in Narrative games they still can, I tend to agree with the game designers that there would have been opportunities for un-fun or non-interactive gaming experiences in competitive tournaments that needed a rule to prevent them.

 

All as the Emperor intended!  

[Adeptus]

I am very sad about the Tactical Reserves rule. I was actually hoping for the opposite, that we could FINALLY have a an army that deploys entirely by deepstrike and doesn't rely on a manned comms relay.

[Valerian]

I am very sad about the Tactical Reserves rule. I was actually hoping for the opposite, that we could FINALLY have a an army that deploys entirely by deepstrike and doesn't rely on a manned comms relay.

 

I get where you're coming from theme wise - in fact, I'm right there with you on that, but we have to consider the game-play aspect.  And when it comes to Matched play, a fully "deep striking" null deploy army doesn't make for balanced play, especially when you take into consideration the guaranteed timing (any movement phase you want), early entry (including the first turn), and precision (no deviation) of the newer streamlined ruleset.  

 

Thematically, I'm a little disappointed that my full Drop Pod Assault style Space Wolves can no longer deploy entirely by deep strike.  Just as I'm sure the Dark Angels are disappointed about the loss of their thematic all deep striking Deathwing Assault armies.  The Grey Knights aren't the only force that have to sacrifice a little bit of the narrative (in Matched play) in order to assure a more balanced gameplay.

 

And, although we want the best of both worlds, when it comes down to it, the priority ought to be on achieving the balance first and foremost.  That's what folks have been griping about for years (decades!), and the designers are finally listening.

 

Best,

 

V

[thraxdown]

Yeah I'd prefer they err on the side of balance even though I love Brother Adeptus vision for our army. 

 

I'm gonna miss chucking a scatter die.  One of my favorite things was my bold deep strike placements.  Sometimes it paid off, sometimes I lost 500+ in paladins to a horrific mishap.  It was always fun though.

[Adeptus]

Yeah, I get that some people don't like facing a null deployment army, but I don't like facing triptides or super-ultra-marines or centurions or grav-spam. I don't see why we should lose a cool function of our army (the whole or near whole army deepstrike) while other armies get to keep on keepin on with their NPE rules or units.

[Gentlemanloser]

:( Can't C&P my post from the 8th Thread.

 

The reserves rules are very positive!

 

only 1/2 in reserves? Set up the NDK/Interceptors on board as usual.

 

DS the GKT for first turn charges.

 

Suck it heretics!

[Holier Than Thou]

Can't C&P my post from the 8th Thread.

The reserves rules are very positive!

only 1/2 in reserves? Set up the NDK/Interceptors on board as usual.

DS the GKT for first turn charges.

Suck it heretics!

All well and good if

(a) you have at least half of your units that are DKs and Interceptors.

And (b shunt is still a thing in 8th.

I don't like to cheese as many NDKs as possible into my list, I had a nice balanced list with a Grand Master, a Librarian, a full 10 man Strike Squad, a 10 man Terminator Squad, a 10 man Interceptor Squad and a single Dreadknight. A fluffy list that, if everything went right, could be powerful but entailed a lot of risk to get the most out of. Now, with ICs unable to join units I have 6 units and only 2 of them will have even a modicum of mobility. So I'm going to have at least one unit that probably does nothing every game because they'll have to deploy in my half, will have a 6" move and most likely nothing with better than 24" range. In fact, since I used to combat squad them it means I have 9 units, of which 3 have mobility so I'll actually have 3 units twiddling their thumbs backfield.

I'm basically being punished for not spamming tournament choice units.

[Gentlemanloser]

Don't forget the Dual Autocannon Dreads we'll be putting back into our lists.

I'm sure we're going to have enough non reserve units.

Tancred endures!

[Bartali]

I'm skeptical the Grey Knights will recieve any, it just doesn't fit them. It'd be like if they received centurion warsuits. Sure, all chapters should have access to them, but GK are way more divergent and created for a specialized purpose, so they only fit the "Chapter" definition in the broadest sense.

Ignore the fluff behind it. It's GW rebooting the Marine model range gradually, having learnt their mistakes with AoS. GK (along with all the other marines) will be all Primaris at some point in the future.

After everyone has gone Primaris and GW no longer make plastic kits of the existing Marine range, as some wag on another forum put it, FW will then sell Resin kits of current models at a higher price

[Valerian]

I like what this Frater had to say about the new Tactical Reserves rule:

 

 

The reason for the 50% deployment rule is that reserves are far more potent this edition so it needs balance. Imagine 2000 points of Grey Knight terminators that deep strike turn 1 without rolling for it. They don't scatter so you can be far more aggressive. They charge turn 1. Those that make it into combat swing first, with swords and hammers doing D3 or D6 wounds and with at least -3. That game is over.

In 7th, they didn't need the 50% deployment rule because there were so many points of failure in deployment. You couldn't come in turn 1. You have to roll to come in so you could potentially be kept out until turn 4. You could scatter off coarse or mishap. If you mishap, you could die or be placed in the opposite end of the table. Even when you do land where you want, you can't assualt.

 

[SyNidus]

I was thinking about that as well. Our deep strikers will be absolutely brutal!

 

In regards to the vehicle changes, I like it more now...imagine, charging someone with a stormraven gunship. Just Awesome!

[~Drakzilla~]

I think people are forgetting that the 50% rule is for matched. If you want a thematic, narrative-driven game where the sons of Titan teleport right into the midst of the enemy to wreck face and take names, play narrative or open. That's why they have the whole "three ways to play". Let matched be for fair fights.*

 

*assuming GW follows through with their promise of balanced armies.

[Myunch]

I think people are forgetting that the 50% rule is for matched. If you want a thematic, narrative-driven game where the sons of Titan teleport right into the midst of the enemy to wreck face and take names, play narrative or open. That's why they have the whole "three ways to play". Let matched be for fair fights.*

 

*assuming GW follows through with their promise of balanced armies.

Love this perspective, totally agree!

[jeffersonian000]

Truth be told, I haven't reserved more than a single squad of GKT for the better part of 2 years. The new reserves rules might maje me go back to a heavier reserve.

 

SJ

[Myunch]

https://spikeybits.com/2017/05/top-20-8th-edition-teasers-from-gws-live-qa.html

 

After reading a bit about some of the highlights of the 8th edition live FAQ today, am I the only one squinting at the fact that they say the Primaris marines are "more resilient" to Chaos? Leaves me wondering about where that leaves us...

 

Also, we can select Pyschic powers!! Yay!!

[LuisMars]

Also, we can select Pyschic powers!! Yay!!

 

Even in matched play? I have my doubts...

[Valerian]

 

 

Also, we can select Pyschic powers!! Yay!!

Even in matched play? I have my doubts...

Yes, even in matched play.