hopes, dreams, and fears for sisters in 8th

[Ficinus]

Yeah, I'm very upset by the new transport rules. It will make Repentia viable and helps out Battle Conclaves, but it severely hurts Dominions and Heavy Flamer Retributors. But, hey, it won't matter too much when we're being assaulted turn one.

[Servant of Dante]

Eh, dominion spam is no fun to me anyway. And really, did anyone really expect the new rules to all cater to the Sisters playstyle? :D

 

I'm excited to try the rules out. I really like the idea of locking down a unit (at least for a bit) with a transport after the people inside have disembarked. Not super excited about disembarking before moving, but eh.

[Noeh]

I for one never wanted to spam dominion squads. It seemed extremely cheesy to me. I figured I would run what I want to run and not ruin the entire fun of the game for myself just because something had been proven as being statistically better. I have dominions, but I've never run more than two squads of five.

[Atrus]

Hmm...sooo....Repressor spam maybe?

[Noeh]

Hmm...sooo....Repressor spam maybe?

That's hoping that FW gives us repressor rules...Because it's an OOP model

 

But if we can..YES. REPRESSORS FOR ALL! Also maybe give us additional weapon options on the silly thing.

[Ficinus]

I don't run Dominion spam either, just a single melta squad. I do run two squads of heavy flamer retributors, though. Still, melta's melta threat range has gone from 18" to 12" and a flamer's has gone from 20" to 14". It will also be turn 3 before we'll be able to get close enough to non-advancing enemy units to shoot them with melta's and flamers.

 

Hopefully they've given us something.

[Commander Dawnstar]

I suppose one thing to consider is that having to fire your Meltaguns from outside 6" carries far less of a penalty in 8th than it did in 7th. Rather than losing out on Armourbane, and with it a dramatic boost to your chance of doing damage, you still get to wound on the same roll as you would at half-range. There's definitely a loss in terms of the average damage done per shot, but with a bit of luck a Meltagun at 12" can still do anything a Meltagun at 6" could.

[Drider]

we'll have to wait to find out what happens to scout/outflank as that will also play a factor. 

[Servant of Dante]

Sisters have always been in a weird spot in that we have to get close to do damage, but we aren't any good in assault. I don't think there's any other army quite like that.

[Noeh]

Maybe they'll go crazy and make repentia into a troop choice so we have a front line to keep BSS safe!...Please GW I need this in my life.
Pen engines and repentia charging headfirst while the rest shoot away from behind.

[Atrus]

Good golly gosh I'm hoping dominions have outflank and can hop in a transport with a different unit. I'm a bit slow today. Just realised Repressors really come into their own when dominions can let loose from the multitudinous fire points while another unit jumps out to assault. Repressors would become our go to transport our little special something unique to us- assuming FW updates for 8th ...until geedub sees how nice that is and let's space marines we take them- no, no pessimism, be hopeful! Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment...dag nabbit! Ah, ok have faith, there we go.

[Noeh]

Only sisters and inquisition have ever been able to take repressors. I'm not sure why, but that's just been their thing. It's such a beautiful piece of machinery too. Retributors and their little sisters, Dominion squads always benefit from that beast.

[BitsHammer]

Repressors are anti-riot vehicles. Aput the only other group who'd want them would be the Arbites, but they don't an army so we don't talk about them (really missed your chance GW when you brought out Genestealer Cults).

[Noeh]

Repressors are going to be broken if you fill them with heavy flamers now. I mean they already were in 7th.

[Eddie Orlock]

Repressors are anti-riot vehicles. Aput the only other group who'd want them would be the Arbites, ...

Ya know, there was a rumour about a new faction. I'd be cool with Arbites. So would Dredd.

[BitsHammer]

 

Repressors are anti-riot vehicles. Aput the only other group who'd want them would be the Arbites, ...

Ya know, there was a rumour about a new faction. I'd be cool with Arbites. So would Dredd.

Orbital strikes could be gifted to the faction as it drops a hard copy of the Lex Imperialis on their target FROM SPACE.

 

Moving on, I actually think we could see the Repentia go from having Eviscerators to Heavy Chainswords. Mostly because such a move would be in line with taking things I like and making them weaker (like when they lost their regular FnP and gained the one time FnP that couldn't even be used against Overwatch for some reason >:( ). If they get a LOT cheaper for the change I could stomach it, though I would be less than pleased to see it.

 

I am seriously wondering if they'll be keeping their rage like mechanic that made them throw out so many attacks when charging. I honeslty hope so since they should be trying to chop things in half as much as possible.

[Knight of the Raven]

The difference between a heavy chainsword and an eviscerator is dubious anyway. The 'eviscerators' from that one old priest model and from the repentia have the size of standard astartes chainswords as far as I know.

 

I can see the entire concept of heavy chainswords disappear though. It was in the big book of rules... even though it was only available to a few models of the Horus Heresy. Their rules could perfectly have been written in Forge World's redbooks instead of Games Workshop's main rulesbook.

[ValourousHeart]

The difference between a heavy chainsword and an eviscerator is dubious anyway. The 'eviscerators' from that one old priest model and from the repentia have the size of standard astartes chainswords as far as I know.

 

Those models evisorators are longer than the standard SM chainsword.

 

In an effort to make my own eviscerators, I did a side by side comparison of every model or Bitz that had a chainsword or eviscerator.

A few observations I made were that the teeth on the chainsword and the eviscerator were all roughly the same size and spacing.

The teeth size and spacing weren't perfectly identical but was only noticeably different when comparing the largest and smallest examples.

 

It turned out that chainswords were almost all the same size, about 1 tooth difference between the largets and the smallest.

The same variance was true for the eviscerators.

This variance only happened between ranges, so comparing an IG chainsword to a SM one.

When comparing SM ones with other SM ones, there was not a noticeable difference.

 

Most of the eviscerators were 2-3 teeth longer than most of the chainswords.

The largest eviscerator compared to the smallest chainsword had a difference in length of about 3.5 teeth, but only had 3 more teeth, which is how I discovered the spacing variation.

The smallest eviscerator compared to the largest chainsword had 2 more teeth, but again had a slight spacing issue that meant the overall length was slightly less than 2 teeth.

[Servant of Dante]

I made sure it was clear that my Canoness has an Evicerator

it's 2 chainswords

To remain at least a little on topic, I am actually worried that the Evicerator won't be a good weapon option anymore. I'm not changing Raedia's model - the weapons is already a part of my Order's fluff, and she's painted. I'm hoping Canonesses will have 2+ WS so she can hit on a 3+ with her evicerator. If Marine Capatins are WS 3+, then I don't expect the Canoness to be better, but she could have the same WS as a Captain (we'll have to wait and see, it's not like we've even see the Captain stat line yet).

[BitsHammer]

I can see characters keeping Eviscerators, but I just don't know if they'll let the Repentia keep it.

[Knight of the Raven]

@ValourousHeart: good to know! I guess I was too influenced by the priest with eviscerator I spotted in Codex: Witch Hunters. It looks so tiny.

 

@Fulkes: what is the point of repentia if they're downgraded to, say, heavy chainswords instead of keeping eviscerators though? Unarmored, slower, slightly killier melee specialists than seraphims?

[Commander Dawnstar]

Obviously there could be some rebalancing in rules and points costs, but isn't the more pertinent question what would make Repentia with Heavy Chainswords superior to Death Cult Assassins?

[BitsHammer]

@ValourousHeart: good to know! I guess I was too influenced by the priest with eviscerator I spotted in Codex: Witch Hunters. It looks so tiny.

 

@Fulkes: what is the point of repentia if they're downgraded to, say, heavy chainswords instead of keeping eviscerators though? Unarmored, slower, slightly killier melee specialists than seraphims?

Well it's not like Repentia didn't already lose teeth since there seem to be a fair number of things they'll only wound on 5+ now instead of cleaving it in twain.

 

Horde killers would be my guess for the downgrade. Make them cheap, give them lots of attacks and let them mulch hordes.

[BitsHammer]

Obviously there could be some rebalancing in rules and points costs, but isn't the more pertinent question what would make Repentia with Heavy Chainswords superior to Death Cult Assassins?

DCA have -3 AP and lost their bonus attack for two weapons, and the bonus attack for charging. So 2 attacks each hitting on 2+, at S3, AP -3. Right now I wouldn't even call them Marine killers in the new edition since they lost their high initiative. A unit of 7 (the other three models would be 3 Crusaders, or 2 Crusaders and space for a Priest) will only put out 14 attacks, hitting with 11.67 of them, wounding on 5s for 3.89 wounds, and then the Marines get a save on a 6+ 3.24 dead Marines on average. This is compared to usually coming pretty close to wiping the unit on the charge even without a Priest.

 

Right now if the Arco-flaggellant gets buffed in terms of either being cheaper or having some kind of proper save it might actually be the more useful one to throw into a unit as it as 1 more attack, WS and S5 and doesn't lost anything form losing the initiative stat. I mean crunching the numbers they'll do 21 attacks that hit on a 2+ for 17.5 attacks, and wounding on 3s versus Marines for 11.67 wounds, and even without an AP 3.89 wounds will push through on average meaning they'll actually kill more models than DCA do (unless DCA get a stat bump to do more attacks).

 

Of course this could change, but as it stands with the current stats, our mindless murder blenders might be a more useful choice against the average enemy than DCA.

[taikishi]

 

@ValourousHeart: good to know! I guess I was too influenced by the priest with eviscerator I spotted in Codex: Witch Hunters. It looks so tiny.

 

@Fulkes: what is the point of repentia if they're downgraded to, say, heavy chainswords instead of keeping eviscerators though? Unarmored, slower, slightly killier melee specialists than seraphims?

Well it's not like Repentia didn't already lose teeth since there seem to be a fair number of things they'll only wound on 5+ now instead of cleaving it in twain.

 

Horde killers would be my guess for the downgrade. Make them cheap, give them lots of attacks and let them mulch hordes.

 

 

More and more reason why I'm considering an alternate 8th just like WHFB had its 9th Age. Which leads to my fear slowly becoming realized:

 

That GW has screwed up 8th with a Sigmarization of 40K and made Sisters an even weaker army in the process.