Ad Mech in 8th Edition

[DeStinyFiSh]

Hey fellow Tech Priests !

 

I want to see a new Hard Date thread as soon as the 8th edition drops and first games are played.

Until then I would like to talk about how the known rule changes (might) change our play style.

 

So wats most likey going to change:

 

- No more Tech Priests to tank for your units

- Arquebuses mit become a thing for sniping characters

- TL Phosphor on Onagers might be more helpfull than Neutron Laser thanks to buff for TL and kind of nerf for blasts

- MSU might still be the way to go thanks to now moral rules

 

So that are my first thoughts.

What do you think might change for us?

 

And please not to much speculation, I think we already have enough solid fact we can discuss

[Reough]

I think phosphor hinges on what the new rules for its special effect are, though if the twin linked blaster is now 6 shots it's bound to be a consideration.

 

Neutron should continue to be effective, assuming blast becomes d3 shots it'll be hitting just as much as previously, and with presumably a new damage value that will make it a good vehicle Hunter.

 

It will be interesting to see what the more esoteric weapons we possess end up like. Rules for arc weapons, and the heavy grav and plasma cannons still haven't been revealed.

 

Here's hoping for an ad mech faction focus sooner rather than later.

[mmimzie]

yeah definitely hoping for a faction focus. 

taking a unit of onagers is gonna rock now with more wounds they could potentially heal with thier arm??? and all the models being able to fire at different units. Finally, we can bring that mixed onager unit that kind makes since to bring. No one gun is the best take all comers onager units, but having a little something for everything will be great. 

Stateline wise i bet the onagers will be like dreadnaughts and share thier W8 T7 3+sv profile. Which is gonna go a LONG!!!! way to making them less mashed potatoes. 

Dunestrider rules will be gone and just give the units with it just a high movement value.  This one is easy, but i take full credit. 

Our plasma cannon Will definitly get multiple hits and do multiple damage for our kataphrons. Maybe rend -3?? so it'll definitely see new purpose is taking out big stuff?? 

Kastelan torrent flames might be pretty awesome as well with thier long reach.  I'm wondering how thier wounds will be if they stay at 3 they'll be laughed in a heart beat compared to dreadnaughts. Chances are they might be T8 with mutliple wounds?/? they are supposed to be tougher than dreadnaughts right??? 

ELECTRO-PRIEST all i can say is "Come on baby, come on.... be worth putting on the table.... please........ please-" haha!!

The TL phosphors will probably be very similar to to the TL heavy bolter with +1 strength. The effect??? who knows probably remove benefits from cover after wounding. 

[Magos Takatus]

I am hoping to see the Transuranic Arquebus and Electro Priests become more useful and I'm curious to see how the Phosphor rules will go. It was dealing multiple wounds in Shadow Wars:Armageddon which might suggest they will have quite a bite to them. I'm not saying they will get those same rules for 8th edition but making up one set of rules for SW:A and then making up a completely different set of rules straight afterwards seems a bit odd.

 

The Macrostubber, Flechette Blaster and Radium Carbine are currently low strength weapons that get extra potency through special rules. Perhaps the Phosphor weapons will be similar. The Phosphor Blast Pistol does d3 wounds in SW:A so we might be seeing d3 or d6 wounds on targets hit by Heavy Phosphor shots?

 

Being relatively new as an army I would expect our rules are more malleable than most other factions.

[Shinespider]

If we assume that Galvanic rifles are going to have AP: -1, which seems likely, then the orthodoxy of Vanguard > Rangers might be disrupted. Rangers would be one of the very few standard rank-and-file infantry in the game with an AP value. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Shinespider

[Tiger9gamer]

I'm a little sad by the slim chance that a small blast becomes a D3, as I love my neutron lasers more than the rest of the weapon... on the plus side though the TL phosphor blasters on the robots will be insane, and I hope they get more wounds to match a dread or something with all the new damage rolls.

[Castellan Cato]

After seeing the rules for the radium carbine in SW:A, I'm a little worried for our vanguards. The RC is a good place for a multiple damage basic weapon though.... hopefully we still get the play style of having lots of weak shots from them. Something like assault 3 s3, no rend, 2 damage would be perfect for their current stats, but maybe too good VS vehicles

[PaperBob]

After seeing the rules for the radium carbine in SW:A, I'm a little worried for our vanguards. The RC is a good place for a multiple damage basic weapon though.... hopefully we still get the play style of having lots of weak shots from them. Something like assault 3 s3, no rend, 2 damage would be perfect for their current stats, but maybe too good VS vehicles

 

With the current "to wound roll of 6 = 2 wounds" I can imagine they will translate that into 8th in some manner. However I would be surprised if they gave a weapon that is so widely available to infantry units a base damage of two. It just seems like it would be too easy to spam.

 

I personally am most curious to see GW's ability to convert current AdMech special rules into 8th Edition (Feel no Pain anyone?)

[Tiger9gamer]

guys... shadow war armeggedon is a stand alone game. it's necromunda. it will probably have absolutely no sway whatsoever whatever 8th edition is going to have for us, and we already saw how most of the guns follow the same line of design as the bolter did or the lasgun. there is also the little details rule that can easily say "6's do two wounds to the unit" or something, so it could still work. (like how the new melta gun is detailed)

 

as other people said, the rules for dune strider will probably be put into the movement option same with everyone else. FNP can be like age of sigmar's extra ward save, just a 5+ or something after the roll. 

[mmimzie]

I mean it's super easy for them to keep the radium carbine as it is right now. In AoS a lot of abilities and weapons allows you to do mortal wounds or extra wounds on rolls of 6 or more to hit or wound depnding on the unit.

So it's very likely that it will be similar to how the melta has it's special rule as part of the weapon. It would be easy to have radium carbine be Assault 3 STR3 ap-  with the special rule attached "rolls of 6 or more to wound, wound twice."  This sentence is totally available to place on the weapon. Note that as far as i ahve seen none of the weapons are in any way similar to thier shadow war counter parts so shadow war thus far kinda tells us nothing. Heck the bolt gun has AP in shadow war and none in the new edition, so lets not try to make comparisons between those because that is a dark place with no where to stand.

As for small blast it looks like small blast and template weapons are d6 if we look at the flamer and the new battle cannon profine both of which used the small blast?? At Str 10 i feel like the neutron laster will be a very much souped up version of the battle cannon. 

Also even if some of these things might be weaker we also have NO idea what points will look like. So even if something gets a worse gun it could have a better points value to match. 

[Magos Takatus]

Suddenly Ballistarii are striding (!) ahead of their Sentinel cousins. Lascannon variants will be punching above their weight compared to similar sized walkers. Autocannon Ballistarii will remain a solid choice. We just have to hope for reasonably fair point values.

 

 

These new twin-linked rules will also make the Onager a bit more fearsome in the Phosphor Blaster loudout and the Kastellans will put out a bit more firepower. Heavy Phosphor Blaster is going to be fun. Good news for anyone that didn't glue the Neutron turret on permanently.

 

The only other weapon I can think of that would get twin linked would be Corpuscarii Electro Priests but they could just as easily be given completely new stats instead of doubling their shots.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Flame Boy

[BassWave]

Im curious/hopeful to any changes rangers and by extension arquebi will receive. With characters no longer hiding in units, and snipers being hinted at being the only thing that can target them beyond 12 in, rangers will now have a definite niche that can't be done better by other units. Perhaps the arquebus will finally recieve a statline that reflects the damage a depleted uranium round does on a more consistent basis.

 

Im a little sad about losing the ability to use Cawl and other Domini as bullet sponges to make up for our lack of transports. Hopefully either FW or GW will provide us some metal bawkses soon.

 

 

 

 

 

....

[Charlo]

Phospher Kastellans will be cool.... BUT they will probably lose their native AP2/ equivalent in combat if you go down this route, as "MC" isn't a thing anymore.

 

Kataphron just became a lot more resilient to big guns, no longer being wounded on a 2+ by S7-9. Having a 4+ is now decent too with most things that used to flat out ignore it only giving a -1, and then we can stop that with some cover.

 

Very eager to see how/ if Canticles and Doctrina carry over...

[Magos Takatus]

Yeah, army-specific rules could be very interesting. I expect Canticles will probably survive over Doctrina Imperatives because they are more varied and give the player more options. That isn't to say that the more powerful Doctrines won't be rolled into the Canticles list.

 

I personally hope that it doesn't rely on the number of squads to improve (whatever replaces the) Canticles' potency since that just forces people into creating multiple small units to benefit from it.

[Charlo]

At this point I'm hoping Ad Mech is just a faction, with Skitarii, Cult & Knights all included.

 

They'll mix Canticles and Doctrina together to get something that just works for both - as opposed to trying to fill out formations to get one affecting the other or cheesin' it.

[Vel'Cona]

Too early to say.  Without weapon/unit profiles, faction special rules et al I'm simply not able to make a conclusive statement at this time.  FWIW, here are some musings:

 

-Characters can still tank, but it may not be the best idea anymore.

-Split fire universal is massive for us, as our guns are amazing and being able to mix in the odd "specialist" gun and still use it is going to be a huge boon.

-Flat profiles are really going to help the Onagers (not that they needed it) and Imperial Knights are likely to be much stronger, too.

-Electro-Priests could see a new lease on life, depending on how fast they are and what buffs/adjustments their weapons get.  The biggest help for them, though, would be a reduced point cost!

-No Formations may be a bit scary for the "combined AdMech" lovers out there (ie. all of us :P), but my feeling is that the faction redistribution is going to make this a de facto option anyway.

[Castellan Cato]

I could see doctrina and/or canticles being our faction specific command point abilities. Still pretty strong, but having a significant cost.

[Charlo]

I could see doctrina and/or canticles being our faction specific command point abilities. Still pretty strong, but having a significant cost.

 

Maybe? The point is that they are currently free and built into the points costs of the units right now.

[MajorNese]

At this point I'm hoping Ad Mech is just a faction, with Skitarii, Cult & Knights all included.

Just look at the new edition webpage's faction list - there's no difference between Skitarii and Cult, just AdMech as one faction. So yes, all indicators say that they will be one codex. Just imperial knights are a separate faction, but both War Convo and Grand Convo made single ones available as LoW, might happen in the new AdMech faction. Similarly to the 30k Mechanicum, which can include single knights as Mechanicum Indentured knights, separated from the Knight Households faction.

[mmimzie]

Kastelans may still have high rend as before as they were original wearing power fist, and might still have power fist. Which might be interesting. Also the pistol on the dude with the castelans becomes a lot more interesting as it will wrack up a kill (more or less) ever turn, while also staying safe from other fire arms by being locked in combat.  Bounce army might get nerfed if it's "rolls of saves of 6 or more bounce a shot" then negative armor modifier will effect this skill similar to how it works in AOS. 

Really excited about our chicken walker friends, i think they'll be a bit tougher and make great knights like they were always meant to. Being able to jsut walk out of any combat will do great for dragoons who are hit and run dudes.

As mentioned above iron striders will also rock.

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

Kastelans may still have high rend as before as they were original wearing power fist, and might still have power fist. Which might be interesting. Also the pistol on the dude with the castelans becomes a lot more interesting as it will wrack up a kill (more or less) ever turn, while also staying safe from other fire arms by being locked in combat.  Bounce army might get nerfed if it's "rolls of saves of 6 or more bounce a shot" then negative armor modifier will effect this skill similar to how it works in AOS. 

 

Really excited about our chicken walker friends, i think they'll be a bit tougher and make great knights like they were always meant to. Being able to jsut walk out of any combat will do great for dragoons who are hit and run dudes.

 

As mentioned above iron striders will also rock.

 

By the Omnissiah with all this data being drip fed I didn't think about our chicken walkers getting wounds, toughness and a save I was too distracted by other things. I wonder what will happen to incense cloud since cover now adds to your save, perhaps a negative to hit modifier? I think a cloud of incense giving an invulnerable much less likely  

[Charlo]

Yeah walkers sound INCREDIBLE with the new edition. Double the shots, more than likely more wounds and more interesting stats and unique rules. I'd expect dunestrider to stay the same too, except the base move value will just be 9 now and it'll only affect run and charge.

 

Cognis weapons. Now these are interesting. We know overwatch is still hitting on a 6, but what about shooting at flyers? My current guess is every flyer will have a different to hit modifier (fighter jets a lot more than bombers and transports etc) so maybe they'll just get +1 to hit or ignore one point of modifier.

 

Cawl is another one, he loses his ability to be a supreme squad tank and moves to a much more buffing ROLE.

[mmimzie]

I just realized canticle and dontrina imperatives might get rolled into one thing and become cult mechanicus' stratgems. Though it might be possible that they boil some of the repeativeness down abit too where you might only havd one strategem for WS and BS buffing???

 

wondering if canticles and doctrines will stay army wide buffs as well or will they be unit specific buffs you can hand out by using CP. As for canticles strength in numbers that seems realistically replaced by  just having more CP availible.

[Charlo]

Maybe Cawl will just bring 3 command points then or something, instead of his unique canticles.

 

Then again, I'd expect them to keep those in some respect, as they uniquely buff all imperial vehicles.

[Odds.043]

I think cawl will most definitely provide some CP, and likely will provide at least one, or two stratagems.

 

I'm actually very curious about how anti vehicle weapons, and poison weapons will work though. Primarily because I found it stupid that kasteals were susceptible to poison in 7th. There is also the issue of such things as armour bane and haywire. Will vehicles and monsters just be differentiated by keywords? That would allow for specific types of anti vehicle only weapons to work, but I wonder if kastelan will still have their susceptibility to poison, or of they will fix this. Admittedly just bugs me from a fluff perspective, abd rarely ever came up in games I used them in, but still.